West Coast Pirates Bid News

[Marlins]

The Nrl should focus more on WA grassroots more then Victorian. RL will never be able to compete with Fumbleball & sooks down there. Having the storm there I'm afraid is all we will achieve. WA on the other hand are building a great local comp with near no support or funding from the Nrl. WARL is the third biggest comp behind NSW & Qld give this area more time to grow on its own and give them test matches, Origins and a handful of regular season games like the nrl is doing and it will grow fine on its own. By 2020-2022 I would like to see a Perth side though. WARL local comp is acheviwng more then the VRL and look at all the success the storm have hadz. I fear SA is rather lost to RL, storm will continue to grow but never have there own grassroots system even if the nrl were to Throw millions at it. WA PNG NZ & South Pacific Islands is where the Nrl need to go. Things are happening -

WA- great Local Comp, Test Match, WC Game, 2-3 RS games to be played there annually, Origin game and possibly a GF in 2020.

PNG- hunters in Qcup, more work going into the national side. Recently built new stadium with plans to make bigger. Will host WC home games.

NZ- Warriors in the nrl,Auckland In Nsw cup, potentially Christchurch/Wellington in Platiunm league or Nsw cup. Will host home WC games, potentially will host GF & Origin.

SPI - Potential Figi side in Nsw cup/Pleague. More work being done to national side.

Things may appear to be moving slow but things are moving along nicely consider where the game was at 20 years ago. With further work and with more TV right monies the game will and is expanding.

 

[T-Boon]

The Nrl should focus more on WA grassroots more then Victorian. RL will never be able to compete with Fumbleball & sooks down there. Having the storm there I'm afraid is all we will achieve.

Whilst I tend to agree with you I am generally surprised that Rugby League does not attract all of the big and more aggressive guys down in Victoria. I am talking the ones who are too big for AFL and also the ones who are not satisfied with playing a borderline non contact sport. There must be stacks of those kind of guys.

Things may appear to be moving slow but things are moving along nicely consider where the game was at 20 years ago. With further work and with more TV right monies the game will and is expanding.

If we had stuck with the comp we had 20 years ago (leaving aside the super league fiasco) we would be sweet now. We would have had Perth Reds through the WA mining boom and a well established second Brisbane team that would have likely won the comp by now. We probably wouldn't have had the Storm salary cap cheating (one or two of their key players would have signed with the Crushers)...and the Lions would probably be dead.

 

[CowboyFuriousFury]

If we had stuck with the comp we had 20 years ago (leaving aside the super league fiasco) we would be sweet now. We would have had Perth Reds through the WA mining boom and a well established second Brisbane team that would have likely won the comp by now. We probably wouldn't have had the Storm salary cap cheating (one or two of their key players would have signed with the Crushers)...and the Lions would probably be dead.

The Brisbane AFL side at there lowest draw less than the Reds but the AFL kept them in the competition. In 92, Brisbane drew 6.4k while Perth at there lowest drew 8k in spite of super league war. If only the NRL just kept the commitment to WA/SA one way or another even if it mean News funding the teams for a while the comp would of being better off in the long run as a national code.

http://afltables.com/afl/crowds/brisbaneb.html
http://afltables.com/rl/crowds/western_reds.html

Super league drain funds which could of been used in funding the game expansion and growth instead it was spent in the courtroom thanks to News and ARL.

 

[Marlins]

When I was referring to 20 years ago I did mean after the SL fiasco.

 

[Diesel]

Rd be interesting to see how the Lions, Suns, GWS and a few smaller Melbourne clubs would go in a SL war and their comp all together... Now hoe can we arrange this to happen?

Would ever decided to cut the Perth Reds and Crushers needs to be hanged, drawn and quartered

 

[docbrown]

Super league drain funds which could of been used in funding the game expansion and growth instead it was spent in the courtroom thanks to News and ARL.

Except half of the NRL was run by News Limited an organisation with deep pockets so I don't buy the 'we had no money excuse'. If they had wanted to keep all those teams they could have. They chose not to because they could get pretty much the same content for cheaper with fewer teams. So they basically screwed over rugby league for their own benefit..

 

[CowboyFuriousFury]

Except half of the NRL was run by News Limited an organisation with deep pockets so I don't buy the 'we had no money excuse'. If they had wanted to keep all those teams they could have. They chose not to because they could get pretty much the same content for cheaper with fewer teams. So they basically screwed over rugby league for their own benefit..

News just wanted rugby league on the cheap like it did during it's entire ownership, it served itself and not the code. If it did the expanison teams will still be going and perhaps finally turned a corner if given enough time like the Swans/Lions were given but News just wanted tv rights and never care about the game truly as seen in the AFL TV deal press conference a while back with Rupert Murdoch.

 

[siv]

Except half of the NRL was run by News Limited an organisation with deep pockets so I don't buy the 'we had no money excuse'. If they had wanted to keep all those teams they could have. They chose not to because they could get pretty much the same content for cheaper with fewer teams. So they basically screwed over rugby league for their own benefit..

It was part of the peace deal

ARL wanted Hunter out of Newcastle turf
News wanted Crushers out of Broncos turf

The initial few teams removed were tit for tat with little history

Adelaide Rams and Gold Coast Chargers died in a similar manner

With only only one more deal and that was to set up a Melbourne club which ARL wanted for a number of years. But it came at the expense of Perth

After that it was the infamous criteria process

News all from the start only wanted one thing Pay-TV rights after the government stopped the PMT consortium of Packer-Murdoch-Telstra in 1993 saying they were too big a monopoly.

Fast forward and we all know ended up owning Foxtel. The same 3

 

[docbrown]

News just wanted rugby league on the cheap like it did during it's entire ownership, it served itself and not the code.

Exactly it's worth remembering that when the whole 'there was no money' argument aspect comes up. Like you say, the money was there but News didn't want to cough it up.

It was part of the peace deal

ARL wanted Hunter out of Newcastle turf
News wanted Crushers out of Broncos turf

The initial few teams removed were tit for tat with little history

Yeah it was a terrible deal and that's on the ARL almost as much as it is on News. I mean think of it this -- if the ARL had the foresight not to give away the pay TV rights to Packer for zip would the Super League ever have happened?

I can understand the Broncos and Mariners issues. But I recall reading that the Mariners & Gold Coast had a merger deal in the works that was scuppered by what was tantamount to petty jealousy. Who's to say the Gold Coast Mariners today wouldn't be more successfully than the Titans? From branding alone it sounds far more appealing.

What came out of the peace deal - on both sides - wasn't strategic for the overall good of the game. Yes part of that was the mess of conducting it in a legal environment but look what has come out of other codes in similar positions - the NFL was the model that should have been followed.

It was a messy situation that was pretty much bungled the whole way through.

 

[siv]

Your right the ARL didnt understand the impact of Pay-TV or the fact 20 years later someone would pay $1bil for it

And your right about RL rationalisation from 1998 was hatchet job

If we look back at the 22 clubs we had

National footprint bar Melbourne

Whoever ever thought that 14 teams was a good idea that day had no vision or understanding of the impact

I remember the day the Hunter Mariners called and wanted me to assist their website. I told them they should become the CC Mariners that day

 

[Diesel]

I don't recall Mariners/GC merger but I remember a weird ass GC Chargers, Balmain Tigers & Brisbane Easts Tigers merger, "East Coast Tigers"

Is there a SL thread somewhere?

 

[toomuchsoup]

Bring back the crushers

 

[CowboyFuriousFury]

Exactly it's worth remembering that when the whole 'there was no money' argument aspect comes up. Like you say, the money was there but News didn't want to cough it up.

Yeah it was a terrible deal and that's on the ARL almost as much as it is on News. I mean think of it this -- if the ARL had the foresight not to give away the pay TV rights to Packer for zip would the Super League ever have happened?

.

Giving away Pay TV rights to Packer sound like a major mistake, if the ARL in hindsight negotiate between Packer & Murdoch and sell Pay TV rights to the higher bidder. Just because the ARL was with 9 doesn't mean that just hand over pay tv to him. That potential money could of being expanison money that would funded the likes of wa/sa,etc.

Instead the underselling of TV rights in general is why NRL couldn't get on the front foot on expanding for so long. Any other code would be gone by now with such incompetent administration over the past decades.

 

[BuffaloRules]

Did any of you blokes live through these times?

Packer and Nine acquired the Rugby League rights from Ten after they went bust and couldn't pay...Seven was the only other option and they weren't interested..

Yes these rights included any future Pay TV...( Foxtel was still a few years away)

But it wasn't the case of "selling to the highest bidder"...

There was only one bidder - Packer..

He had the ARL by the balls and got them to hand over potential Pay TV rights as part of the deal for showing games on Nine...

Times were a bit different in those days...

 

[docbrown]

I don't recall Mariners/GC merger but I remember a weird ass GC Chargers, Balmain Tigers & Brisbane Easts Tigers merger, "East Coast Tigers"

I recall that one too. There were a lot of weird offers going on at the time. If I recall Balmain also looked at Parramatta and the Roosters as well.

Giving away Pay TV rights to Packer sound like a major mistake

When Murdoch first came calling back when it was all civil in the start the ARL chiefs went and met with Packer to try and get the rights back and he told them, effectively, to f**k off.

Did any of you blokes live through these times?

Packer and Nine acquired the Rugby League rights from Ten after they went bust and couldn't pay...Seven was the only other option and they weren't interested..

Yes these rights included any future Pay TV...( Foxtel was still a few years away)

But it wasn't the case of "selling to the highest bidder"...

There was only one bidder - Packer..

He had the ARL by the balls and got them to hand over potential Pay TV rights as part of the deal for showing games on Nine...

Times were a bit different in those days...

Most people who lived through the times are probably unaware of most of these back room deals any way. What you're saying is true to some degree. The ARL definitely did give Packer all the power but consider this - what's the difference between doing that and what the NRL did in handing power to a 9 & Foxtel oligopoly during the 2000s? Both are bad deals by any logical measure.

Negotiation isn't just what you offer and who's bidding, it's also about perception and foresight. It was obvious from the American experience that subscription television was going to boom in the 90s and the ARL were simply unprepared for it.

 

[siv]

I recall that one too. There were a lot of weird offers going on at the time. If I recall Balmain also looked at Parramatta and the Roosters as well.



When Murdoch first came calling back when it was all civil in the start the ARL chiefs went and met with Packer to try and get the rights back and he told them, effectively, to f**k off.



Most people who lived through the times are probably unaware of most of these back room deals any way. What you're saying is true to some degree. The ARL definitely did give Packer all the power but consider this - what's the difference between doing that and what the NRL did in handing power to a 9 & Foxtel oligopoly during the 2000s? Both are bad deals by any logical measure.

Negotiation isn't just what you offer and who's bidding, it's also about perception and foresight. It was obvious from the American experience that subscription television was going to boom in the 90s and the ARL were simply unprepared for it.

I think you will find we were in two different eras pre and post pay-tv

Think of it as similiar to live TV streaming a few years ago

Concept was brewing but huge infrastructure setup and legislation issue hurdles

A bit like today we holding off for the next few years to see how things playout

 

[docbrown]

I think you will find we were in two different eras pre and post pay-tv

Think of it as similiar to live TV streaming a few years ago

Concept was brewing but huge infrastructure setup and legislation issue hurdles

A bit like today we holding off for the next few years to see how things playout

These things don't happen in a bubble though. Cable television had exploded in the 80s in the US. It was an existing already proven technology. All the major tech/tv pundits knew it was coming here. They were speculating about it in the press a decade before Super League even kicked off.

Sporting bodies need to prepare for these changes and capitalise on their capabilities. I don't think the ARL were prepared for both nationalization and the changing television market. Don't forget, they had warned teams like Parramatta etc that they would get culled. The ARL don't get to say that they weren't (at least) partly responsible for what happened next.

 

[aarondoyle]

The Nrl should focus more on WA grassroots more then Victorian. RL will never be able to compete with Fumbleball & sooks down there. Having the storm there I'm afraid is all we will achieve. WA on the other hand are building a great local comp with near no support or funding from the Nrl. WARL is the third biggest comp behind NSW & Qld give this area more time to grow on its own and give them test matches, Origins and a handful of regular season games like the nrl is doing and it will grow fine on its own. By 2020-2022 I would like to see a Perth side though. WARL local comp is acheviwng more then the VRL and look at all the success the storm have hadz. I fear SA is rather lost to RL, storm will continue to grow but never have there own grassroots system even if the nrl were to Throw millions at it. WA PNG NZ & South Pacific Islands is where the Nrl need to go. Things are happening -

WA- great Local Comp, Test Match, WC Game, 2-3 RS games to be played there annually, Origin game and possibly a GF in 2020.

PNG- hunters in Qcup, more work going into the national side. Recently built new stadium with plans to make bigger. Will host WC home games.

NZ- Warriors in the nrl,Auckland In Nsw cup, potentially Christchurch/Wellington in Platiunm league or Nsw cup. Will host home WC games, potentially will host GF & Origin.

SPI - Potential Figi side in Nsw cup/Pleague. More work being done to national side.

Things may appear to be moving slow but things are moving along nicely consider where the game was at 20 years ago. With further work and with more TV right monies the game will and is expanding.

Maybe if the Storm world actually develop some local players. Also it'd be nice if they'd not put their under 20s side at the central coast/sunshine coast/wherever else that's not in Victoria.

 

[T-Boon]

Also it'd be nice if they'd not put their under 20s side at the central coast/sunshine coast/wherever else that's not in Victoria.

Totally agree.
This just looks a lot like they have given up on developing Victorian rugby league all together.

 

[Perth Red]

Another sell out crowd, another call for a team, another CEO telling us the games not ready, another hollow promise of increased grass roots funding.
I see nothing's changed whilst I've been away!