Weststigers Wasteland

[TooheysNew]

Potentially fair criticism but some fact checking is better than none. That moron who was talking about how many solar panels are required to power the world/ an area was completely and utterly wrong. So so so wrong.

I'll say something else - culture war BS has no part in adult conversations. It's childish and dumb.

Some fact checking from credible sources, yes.

From a language model that disclaims itself from fact? Not so much.

 

[Tiger05]

Potentially fair criticism but some fact checking is better than none. That moron who was talking about how many solar panels are required to power the world/ an area was completely and utterly wrong. So so so wrong.

Some fact checking from credible sources, yes.

From a language model that disclaims itself from fact? Not so much.

I disagree because it's picked up multiple obvious pieces of BS. You might be right but in this instance I don't think it matters.

I have caught chatGPT out once. I stated a rebut and they checked and agreed with me.

In stating that I'm fact checking really stupid shit. I mean the use case for what I'm checking is a pretty low bar.

I am educated on the subject of climate change and in particular the energy transition. I'm arguing against culture war BS. It's like superman beating up Tyrion the dwarf.

The arguments on here have been:-

1. The scientists that can't talk know what they are talking about. This isn't even logical.
2. Renewables create more environmental damage. Clearly BS and it's easily checked. I could post papers on this but I mean if people are getting their information from culture war BS on social media is a paper the right response.
3. Solar panels would use more space than what is actually available. I know this is BS but again Chat GPT can easily prove that this is BS.

Note that all of these arguments are feeling and not data based.

It's a pretty shit situation and I think it's what is wrong with the world. People are completely uneducated on topics and get their information from known bullshit artists and think they know what they are talking about. No one can do a simple fact check and they should.

 

[TooheysNew]

I disagree because it's picked up multiple obvious pieces of BS. You might be right but in this instance I don't think it matters.

I have caught chatGPT out once. I stated a rebut and they checked and agreed with me.

In stating that I'm fact checking really stupid shit. I mean the use case for what I'm checking is a pretty low bar.

I am educated on the subject of climate change and in particular the energy transition. I'm arguing against culture war BS.

The arguments on here have been:-

1. The scientists that can't talk know what they are talking about.
2. Renewables create more environmental damage. Clearly BS and it's easily checked. I could post papers on this but I mean if people are getting their information from culture war BS on social media is a paper the right response.
3. Solar panels would use more space than what is actually available.

Note that all of these arguments are feeling and not data based.

It's a pretty shit situation and I think it's what is wrong with the world. People are completely uneducated on topics and get their information from known bullshit artists and think they know what they are talking about. No one can do a simple fact check and they should.

I'm not arguing with you on any of your points about the argument itself.

I'm just telling you that using ChatGPT for "fact checking" is the wrong approach, and does nothing to add credibility to your argument.

 

[Tiger05]

I'm not arguing with you on any of your points about the argument itself.

I'm just telling you that using ChatGPT for "fact checking" is the wrong approach, and does nothing to add credibility to your argument.

Cool. The problem is the results in these use cases are correct.

Why don't you provide some information on the different models. I'd find that interesting.

 

[Nutz]

When we hear and talk about climate change we seem to skip over the impact it has on of our oceans.
The ocean is like a gigantic sponge and the ocean, well, without it being healthy our existence looks bleak.
Human influence on CO2 levels is the issue. When CO2 dissolves in the ocean it causes it to heat up, killing marine life and organisms such as coral.
It saddens me to hear this.
Off the topic a bit.... I bought some fish from a fish market last year and whilst I was waiting for my meal I observed in one of the display freezers a bucket load load of under sized whiting, about 2 inches long. I was so angry about this that I had to ask the shop assistant about it. She said basically it's collateral damage from netting.

 

[Nutz]

@TooheysNew
I don't have privileges in that other thread so I can't respond.
So the simple answer is the bot check will continue when using the app, that I can understand, I'm happy with that.
Post disappears.... I'm walking on eggshells about this so don't worry about it.

Cheers

 

[TooheysNew]

Posts don't just disappear. Notifications are sent.

 

[Nutz]

Posts don't just disappear. Notifications are sent.

Yeh right. Goodnight champ.

 

[TooheysNew]

Yeh right. Goodnight champ.

No wonder you get yourself in trouble, with an attitude like that.

 

[Nutz]

No wonder you get yourself in trouble, with an attitude like that.

Cheers

 

[macnaz]

When we hear and talk about climate change we seem to skip over the impact it has on of our oceans.
The ocean is like a gigantic sponge and the ocean, well, without it being healthy our existence looks bleak.
Human influence on CO2 levels is the issue. When CO2 dissolves in the ocean it causes it to heat up, killing marine life and organisms such as coral.
It saddens me to hear this.
Off the topic a bit.... I bought some fish from a fish market last year and whilst I was waiting for my meal I observed in one of the display freezers a bucket load load of under sized whiting, about 2 inches long. I was so angry about this that I had to ask the shop assistant about it. She said basically it's collateral damage from netting.

Cant comment of the Whiting catch..BUT you may not be aware (or allowed to be aware) that coral growth within the the Great Barrier Reef is at an all time high.. Just saying

 

[Nutz]

Cant comment of the Whiting catch..BUT you may not be aware (or allowed to be aware) that coral growth within the the Great Barrier Reef is at an all time high.. Just saying

I didn't know that. Everything I read seems to be the dramatic effect the water temp has had on coral which is called bleeching.
The reef's were under threat of those crown of thorns starfish too but if the system is healthy then they don't have such an impact.....apparently?
As far as not being allowed to be aware, nothing surprises me macca
My hip replacement surgery is tomorrow so I'll have plenty of time to sus out the Whiting catch

 

[Tigerm]

Cant comment of the Whiting catch..BUT you may not be aware (or allowed to be aware) that coral growth within the the Great Barrier Reef is at an all time high.. Just saying

Record ice build up on both poles as well.

 

[Tiger05]

I reckon there are some lies on this thread just recently. I'll fact-check this to see if they are lies/misinformation and I'll report back.

Then I'll make the cooker call.

 

[Tigerm]

One of many reports.

 

[Tiger05]

One of many reports.

I haven't checked this but I will. I'm going to make the call now though - you are actually consuming misinformation willfully.

I have a comment on this as well because from our last conversation I've realized that discussing this issue like an adult with you requires confronting the emotional response that you garner from consuming misinformation.

Give me sometime. I'm going to give you guys a double bonus as well. I'm going to explain (and you can easily research this as well) how some industries spread misinformation. You are being played by the same play book that has been used for years.

Lastly we need to agree on one thing - facts over feelings.

 

[Tiger05]

Cant comment of the Whiting catch..BUT you may not be aware (or allowed to be aware) that coral growth within the the Great Barrier Reef is at an all time high.. Just saying

This one here is actually a classic bit of misinformation and it relates to taking a fact out of context. Let's call this being gullible to facts that do not portray an accurate representation of the issue being discussed. So for instance it is like stating that Jimmy Jones smoked all his life and died with no sign of cancer therefore smoking doesn't cause cancer.

Only a gullible person would buy such a stupid statement (about Jimmy). I'll discuss some of the why some people turn into cookers - i.e. people whose feelings about a subject do not match to the facts but they passionately believe it. Flat-earthers, anti-vaxxers, climate change deniers all fit this category.

Anyway onto the analysis in a bit of detail:-

Is Coral Growth in the Great Barrier Reef at an All-Time High? A Closer Look​

Overview of the Claim:​

Some climate change skeptics or contrarians claim that coral growth in the Great Barrier Reef (GBR) is at “an all-time high,” suggesting that the reef is healthy and climate change is either exaggerated or not a threat. While this claim contains a kernel of truth, it is misleading and incomplete. Here’s why.

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The Facts Behind the Claim​

The Australian Institute of Marine Science (AIMS), which has been monitoring the GBR for decades, published reports in 2022 and 2023 showing that:

• Hard coral cover (the percentage of reef surface covered by living hard coral) in the northern and central GBR reached its highest levels since monitoring began in 1985.
• This recovery followed severe coral bleaching and storm damage from 2016–2020.

Source:
Australian Institute of Marine Science 2023 Annual Summary

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Why the “All-Time High” Framing is Misleading​

1. Recovery ≠ Resilience​

The recent growth is a rebound, not a sign of long-term resilience or stability. The GBR has suffered five major coral bleaching events since 2016, driven by record ocean heat. These events:

• Kill coral or weaken it significantly.
• Disrupt entire reef ecosystems.
• Are occurring more frequently due to climate change.

AIMS explicitly warns that this growth could be quickly reversed by further bleaching or cyclones.

Source:
AIMS 2022 Media Release

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2. Growth Dominated by Vulnerable Coral Species​

The growth in coral cover has been driven mostly by Acropora species:

• These corals grow quickly after damage.
• But they’re also highly vulnerable to heat stress, cyclones, and crown-of-thorns starfish.
• Their dominance can make reefs more fragile, not stronger.

Think of it as rebuilding a house with cheap materials after a hurricane. It looks fixed, but the structure is weak.

Source:
Great Barrier Reef Outlook Report 2019 (GBRMPA)

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3. Southern Reef Not Experiencing Same Growth​

The southern GBR did not show the same rebound in coral cover.

• This regional variability undermines the claim of a reef-wide “all-time high.”
• Coral cover remains patchy, and many parts of the reef are still in recovery or decline.

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4. Coral Cover ≠ Reef Health​

While coral cover is a useful indicator, it does not capture:

• Biodiversity
• Structural complexity
• Ecological balance
• Fish populations and other marine life

A reef can have high coral cover but still be in poor ecological health.

Source:
Hughes et al. (2021) – Global warming impairs recovery of coral reefs

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5. Global Scientific Consensus on Climate Risk to Reefs​

The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) reports that:

• 70–90% of tropical coral reefs will likely be lost at 1.5°C of warming.
• Over 99% could be lost if warming reaches 2°C.
• The GBR is one of the most vulnerable ecosystems to climate change.

Source:
IPCC Sixth Assessment Report – Summary for Policymakers (2022)

---

Summary: What to Say When You Hear This Claim​

“It’s true that coral cover has recently increased in some parts of the Great Barrier Reef, but this growth is mostly due to a rebound of fast-growing, fragile coral species after recent damage. Scientists warn that the reef remains extremely vulnerable to climate change. These short-term gains don’t mean the reef is healthy or safe in the long run — in fact, they may give a false sense of security while the underlying threats continue to grow.”

​

 

[Tiger05]

Just for some context I will add how coral reefs are handling climate change:-

Scientific Consensus​

• Coral reefs are declining worldwide in both coral cover and biodiversity.
• Even reefs that appear “healthy” may have undergone species loss, reduced complexity, and lower resilience.
• Without rapid cuts in greenhouse gas emissions, reefs face near-total collapse this century.

IPCC Report Summary:

• At 1.5°C of warming: up to 90% of tropical coral reefs at risk
• At 2°C of warming: more than 99% of coral reefs could be lost

Sources:

• IPCC AR6 – Working Group II (2022)
• Hughes et al., Science, 2017
• NOAA Coral Reef Watch

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[Tiger05]

So it's good to know be in a situation where we can call bullshit on cooker misinformation.

The facts matter and our feelings are just feelings that have no relevance in this discussion.

The fact is @macnaz in this instance was played. I'll add some reasons why he may be being played later on because we aren't really talking about coral reefs and climate change. We are really discussing why some people become cookers.

 

[Tiger05]

One of many reports.

I love your one of many reports. I think you are serious and it's hilarious. The funny thing is the joke is on you.

Let's do it though.

1. Antarctic Sea Ice​

Short‑term Increase ≠ Long‑term Trend​

• It’s true Antarctic sea ice extent was higher on this exact date in 2024 compared to 2016, but that is cherry‑picking a single day—not meaningful in climate trends ft.com+3reuters.com+3reddit.com+3reuters.com+1antarcticglaciers.org+1.
• Long-term records show:
  • A small rise in Antarctic sea ice from 1979 to around 2014.
  • A sharp drop since 2016, including record lows in 2017, 2022, and 2023 nsidc.org+3en.wikipedia.org+3reuters.com+3nsidc.org+3en.wikipedia.org+3tc.copernicus.org+3.
  • The 2024 winter maximum was the second lowest ever, not a record high climate.gov+6nsidc.org+6climate.gov+6.

Complex Variability​

• Antarctic sea ice is heavily influenced by wind patterns, ocean currents, and internal climate dynamics—not just temperature climate.gov+15reuters.com+15tc.copernicus.org+15.
• IPCC and NSIDC conclude there is no significant long-term trend in Antarctic sea ice from 1979 to 2020, due to high interannual and regional variability en.wikipedia.org+1reuters.com+1.

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2. Arctic Sea Ice​

• Arctic sea ice is steadily declining:
  • Summer minimums are decreasing by about 12.2% per decade compared to 1981–2010 levels en.wikipedia.org+1time.com+1nsidc.org+4climate.nasa.gov+4climate.gov+4.
  • The 2024 minimum was the 7th lowest on record, within the 18 lowest since 2007 arctic.noaa.gov+5nsidc.org+5climate.gov+5.
  • Sea ice is not just thinner and younger, but volume is dropping too—Arctic winter 2025 volume was among the lowest on record polarportal.dk+3en.wikipedia.org+3reddit.com+3.

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3. Global Sea Ice​

• In February 2025, the combined global sea ice (Arctic + Antarctic) was at a record low, with the Arctic driving most of the decline and Antarctic also below average washingtonpost.com.
• Main takeaway: Global sea ice trends are clearly downward overall.

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Final Assessment​

• Antarctic sea ice may be higher today than on one arbitrarily chosen day in 2016—but that’s misleading.
• Long-term data show no sustained increase—in fact, conditions are worsening, especially since 2016.
• Arctic sea ice is declining strongly in extent, thickness, volume, and age.
• The global picture is unmistakable: sea ice is in decline, with significant climate change signals reinforcing the trend.

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