What Mary has to work with.

Discussion in 'St George Illawarra Dragons' started by Wittenberg, Sep 11, 2015.

  1. Wittenberg

    Wittenberg Juniors

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    There are plenty on this forum who are Mary knockers. We can argue about statistics all night long, but I have always thought the measure of a coach is what he can do with his roster. That is why I never rated Fulton or Sticky with Manly and Australian teams. Let's look at our current team. How many of our current side would be in the top three players in their position in our comp. If we look at this we might get a good measure of our players and our coach.
     
  2. Red v is part of me

    Red v is part of me Juniors

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    I agree, when you compare the rosters of all the other top 8 side and the so called "super coaches" they have. I think we are punching well above our weight and our coach is doing ok with the cattle he has to work with.
     
  3. Get2dachopper!

    Get2dachopper! Juniors

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    Mary has his work cut out for him tomorrow night. His bench rotation is so crucial against this big pack.

    Let's judge him when once the season is officially over.
     
  4. Objective View

    Objective View Bench

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    The bloke can't coach. Period.

    He enjoyed a short fairy tale run at the beginning of the year, similar to Taylor at Parra or Fittler at Roosters, but he's clearly out of his league.

    Straight Shooter
     
  5. Saints Forever

    Saints Forever Bench

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    Must say before or after, the reality is that we have a number of major weaknesses in terms of roster that Mary cannot be held accountable for.

    Mary has his limitations as does the roster, however despite anything Objective View and Dino might say, Saints under Mary have punched above their weight.

    This may be due to the coaching staff or it may simply be that we have 6-7 excellent players who pull us through when it counts despite the coaching staff.

    At the end of the day, we have Duges, Benji, Gazza, Mez, Frizz, JDB and Thommo, and on their day they can make the difference.

    Problem is,whilst it has helped us beat the lesser sides, we are 3-4 excellent players away from competing for the premiership.
     
  6. pfrano

    pfrano Juniors

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    Not sure how you can call yourself 'Objective View'. By definition you do not support any of your views by pure facts, eg "he enjoyed a short fairy tale run....". This is a subjective statement and is in total conflict to an objective view.

    Unless you get the fairies to make statements detailing facts in support, I'm sorry, but must call you a fraud.
     
  7. Wittenberg

    Wittenberg Juniors

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    Avoids the question. Who in our mob is in the top three in their position. The mantra 'he can't coach' is a superficial one unless you look at the team he has at his disposal. Would either of our centres make it in any of the other top eight teams? Is Nightingale and Eto even in the top 6 at the moment. Marketing shows our strength on the bench. Strong team.....not
     
  8. Forster Dragon

    Forster Dragon Juniors

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    Average side at best and we have overachieved this season.Credit to the coaching STAFF and it will all end tomorrow sadly.But all in all a good season.
     
  9. Walpole

    Walpole Juniors

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    Unfortunately, as your grasp of the English language is far greater that "objective" views he won't engage with you. He will instead continue to troll like a teenager, no doubt telling his mates at school how he stirred up the Dragons forum on league unlimited by again telling us all Mary is a shit coach.
     
  10. winnie the pooh

    winnie the pooh Juniors

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    To be fair just because he calls himself Objective View doesn't mean his views are such.

    I'm not actually winnie the pooh.
     
  11. Objective View

    Objective View Bench

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    But your views are shitty.

    Straight Shooter
     
  12. Dorsai

    Dorsai Juniors

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    I would agree that we do not have the material that the other clubs have to work with. Our team is comprised mainly of good players, but not great players.

    We have the likes of Dugan and Widdop who, on their day are up there with the best players in the league.

    We also have players like Marshall and Nightingale who were top class players but would be on the downward spiral of their careers.

    We have players like Frizzell,Rein, and DeBelin, who offer good work up front but also lay in that fringe area. the same for AhMau and Thompson. All have performed well at different times this year but cant seem to take that last step.

    Our only so called star in the forward pack would be Merrin who has had a reasonable but not outstanding season.

    We do not have the same quality as other teams in the semis however they are capable of beating any side in the semis as long as they play as a team and defend as they have previously.

    It is the job of the coaching staff to motivate and mould the players into a unit. We have seen our players work that way early in the season but for the majority of it they all seem to have different play books.

    I believe if we had a better more experienced coach we could have achieved more. We have finished the 2nd half of the season by falling over the line. The team has little attack of direction, a faltering defensive line and remains ill disciplined. These are things the coaching staff are responsible for.

    I agree that some "super" coaches have a playing roster that ensures success. I believe bellamy is in that category as well as Bennett to maybe a lesser degree.

    Bellamy without his star players is an average coach but he still manages to motivate the team as a unit.

    Bennett had our side for our 2010 win. He had a team of fringe players and moulded them into a formidable force. We had the likes of Gasnier and Boyd as genuine contenders but our roster was strong hard working team players.

    Roll forward to Newcastle and with a similar roster he was unable to do anything.

    Whilst the players take a lot of blame for the poor form and inconsistency, the coaching staff are the ones directing the traffic.

    McGregor is not the fit for this side and I class him in the same league as Brown when he took over at the Dragons. Eventually he may develop into a smart coach. It will however come at our expense over the next couple of years and beyond.

    Good luck to the boys today. It will be luck rather than good management from the coaching box that gets them any further. They will need to realise they are a team and hunt as a pack. Defence will win them the game along with a team effort in attack. If they let the dogs dictate the style of play we are done for. They need to bog them down and frustrate them.

    I do not believe the coaching staff are able however, to convince them they can do it.
     
  13. Red v is part of me

    Red v is part of me Juniors

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    I agree with some of what you say Dorsai, but if we happen to win today surely some credit must go to the coach and it can't be all just luck.
     
  14. Jubileeboy

    Jubileeboy First Grade

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    Agree....and a question. If we win, what position does that have us finish the season in?
     
  15. Redvpassion

    Redvpassion Juniors

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    Higher than the Dogs :D
     
  16. gitano

    gitano Juniors

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    Our right edge defence is of huge concern. Haven't had a chance to build any combination with Nighty and Friz injured at different times, and Mary swapping the centres sides too often.

    It also happens to be the Bulldogs go-to side on attack. Friz, Aitken and Nighty must be better tonight or we have no hope.
     
  17. grandorient

    grandorient Bench

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    Our pack isn't too bad, however, little depth. Halves in the top half, reasonable fullback, who would be in the top 4. Young inexperienced centres, who should develop with age and time. Nightingale, who appears to have been playing with injury and no real winger on the other side.

    It has been said on here and JA a hundred times, we need a smart attacking coach; that is the big difference..

    GO
     
  18. Slackboy72

    Slackboy72 Coach

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    Our weakness is our 3/4 line. Defence and attack.
    Nighty has been ordinary this year, Mata Utia has been strong, Aitken has been okay for a rookie, Farrell has been okay, Nabuli has been inconsistent and Hunt has been good.
    In the old days if Coops, Gaz, Nighty and BMoz were fit, you'd pick em. No questions asked.
    I'm genuinely unsure who I'd want in our 3/4s.
     
  19. grandorient

    grandorient Bench

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    Slackboy, do you mean from our squad, or outside gains ?

    GO
     
  20. hardbaby

    hardbaby Coach

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    Mary has done ok with a poor roster. Next year is the test. Lots of other teams outside the eight have improved their rosters. Looks like a very competitive comp in 16. My greatest concern is the attack. We still have next to nothing. The lines players run. The lack of support. So many of the basics are bad and that is not acceptable. Can Mary fix that? Doubt it. He has no idea.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2015

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