What those advocating afl style expansion don't want u to know

[Colk]

Ppl here all pointing to the afl example, then when stuff like this comes out they like "we never said that."

I agree that AFL made mistakes but it’s not a really accurate comparison you’re making.

GWS would be analogous to us putting in a second Melbourne side. Which we aren’t doing.

Gold Coast is essentially a tourist area which has had problems with establishing sides in any and every sport, including RL.

 

[baselinepanther]

Have we wasted billions then trying to get kids to play RL when it has failed so badly compared to soccer participation? that seems to be the argument against AFL.

 

[baselinepanther]

I agree that AFL made mistakes but it’s not a really accurate comparison you’re making.

GWS would be analogous to us putting in a second Melbourne side. Which we aren’t doing.

Gold Coast is essentially a tourist area which has had problems with establishing sides in any and every sport, including RL.

its a shame the aflol or Krusty the clown PR won't admit they've made mistakes eh

 

[Pippen94]

To be fair, AFL's heartland doesn't have mid-sized regional centres like Woolongong, Newcastle, Townsville, or the Central Coast for that matter.. so their focus on the big 5 capitals was sheer necessity. Then when every one of them outside Melbourrne had a team, it was "double down" time.. there weren't many other options.

RL has mid-size locations with teams, which provides decent coverage of the heartland, but coupled with an oversaturated Sydney means we just CAN'T "double down" on all those big capitals like AFL.. which might not be a bad thing.

Only metro counts for TV. Afl could put team in Canberra or Tassie (both bigger than Townsville) but choose Sydney 2 because there's no value in regionals. "Doubling down" as you've put it is because they ran out of markets

 

[Pippen94]

Sure people use the AFL as an example all the time, but that's not the same as using GWS as an example that should be copied.

As far as I know nobody is pointing to GWS and saying the NRL should copy their business plan by admitting a club akin to them. To suggest that is happening is just a strawman.

Establishing & funding a team in a city where code isn't main brand of football. Seems pretty similar.

 

[Pippen94]

I agree that AFL made mistakes but it’s not a really accurate comparison you’re making.

GWS would be analogous to us putting in a second Melbourne side. Which we aren’t doing.

Gold Coast is essentially a tourist area which has had problems with establishing sides in any and every sport, including RL.

Western Sydney about same size as Perth..

 

[Colk]

its a shame the aflol or Krusty the clown PR won't admit they've made mistakes eh

I definitely think GC Suns was and is a mistake. It’s not big enough, it’s generally a league area and it is a tourist/transient area. Even RL has had problems in that area so I don’t understand how they thought that was going to work

GWS is probably the same although it is a big area so it might work, depending on what their goals are. The biggest problem they have is that AFL is such an anglo sport that it has problems capturing the attention of ethnically diverse areas of Western Sydney

 

[Colk]

Western Sydney about same size as Perth..

What exactly is your point?

Are you suggesting that two areas are exactly the same or the processes between the Perth bid/bids and the entry of the GWS are exactly the same because the populations are roughly the same?

 

[Wb1234]

Sure people use the AFL as an example all the time, but that's not the same as using GWS as an example that should be copied.

As far as I know nobody is pointing to GWS and saying the NRL should copy their business plan by admitting a club akin to them. To suggest that is happening is just a strawman.

The afl has been a model of how to do expansion

where has it actually worked ? Putting a team somewhere where’s there’s a lot of people and throwing one hundred million at it hasn’t worked for them so well

maybe the arlc should learn from the afls mistakes and maybe avoi

 

[Wb1234]

I definitely think GC Suns was and is a mistake. It’s not big enough, it’s generally a league area and it is a tourist/transient area. Even RL has had problems in that area so I don’t understand how they thought that was going to work

GWS is probably the same although it is a big area so it might work, depending on what their goals are. The biggest problem they have is that AFL is such an anglo sport that it has problems capturing the attention of ethnically diverse areas of Western Sydney

Well the afl copied the nrl going to the Gold Coast

then threw two hundred million at them so yeh massive mistake

they got that Ablett guy who was the best afl player in their game and had a marketing budget the titans could only dream about

whilst a side like west coast eagles gets around ten million from the afl, the suns get 28 million and are still a basket case

 

[Pippen94]

What exactly is your point?

Are you suggesting that two areas are exactly the same or the processes between the Perth bid/bids and the entry of the GWS are exactly the same because the populations are roughly the same?

Putting team in area of 2 million where sport isn't the top code. Pretty similar

 

[Wb1234]

Putting team in area of 2 million where sport isn't the top code. Pretty similar

It’s a fair point

but Perth unlike melboring was always strong In league

the Perth grand final used to get 10k crowds before the reds were killed off

Melboring was the hard one for league to establish totally alien for the sport and they’ve captured a good nieche market

Perth will be a stronger club than Melbourne over time imo

 

[The Great Dane]

Establishing & funding a team in a city where code isn't main brand of football. Seems pretty similar.

Well it was like I said.

This is just a big old strawman.

 

[The Great Dane]

The afl has been a model of how to do expansion

where has it actually worked ?

Swans, West Coast Eagles, Crows, Freemantle, arguably Brisse depending on how you are measuring success. You get the point I'm sure.

Even if they are still small in Western Sydney specifically (and I don't think anybody would deny that BTW), it's undeniable that their growth in NSW and Queensland as a whole over the past, say, 50ish years, has been monumental from where the sport was before then.

I'd even go so far as to say that GWS and the Suns are nowhere near truly failing yet, and that if the AFL can get them up over the coming decades that they'll more than pay themselves off over the come century. But that's a bit of an aside.

 

[Pippen94]

Swans, West Coast Eagles, Crows, Freemantle, arguably Brisse depending on how you are measuring success. You get the point I'm sure.

Even if they are still small in Western Sydney specifically (and I don't think anybody would deny that BTW), it's undeniable that their growth in NSW and Queensland as a whole over the past, say, 50ish years, has been monumental from where the sport was before then.

I'd even go so far as to say that GWS and the Suns are nowhere near truly failing yet, and that if the AFL can get them up over the coming decades that they'll more than pay themselves off over the come century. But that's a bit of an aside.

Sneaky to include Perth & Adelaide teams in there. Afl has always been played in NSW & qld. Actually Sydney produced top level afl players for decades. Just now competition beats drum & tells everybody how national they are & some ppl believe it.

 

[marshall stalin]

I definitely think GC Suns was and is a mistake. It’s not big enough, it’s generally a league area and it is a tourist/transient area. Even RL has had problems in that area so I don’t understand how they thought that was going to work

GWS is probably the same although it is a big area so it might work, depending on what their goals are. The biggest problem they have is that AFL is such an anglo sport that it has problems capturing the attention of ethnically diverse areas of Western Sydney

Sporting teams on the Gold Coast are not a great success no matter what the code one has to say.

How many Gold Coast League teams has there been - Seagulls/ Giants/Gladiators/Chargers and now Titans - Football - Gold Coast United FC and AFL - Gold Coast Suns.

 

[Colk]

Putting team in area of 2 million where sport isn't the top code. Pretty similar

Not at all and incredibly simplistic comparison.

1. Market. GWS was put into a market in which the Swans had already been established and have carved out their niche. So they weren’t going into an empty market, they already had a competitor in the same market.

A team in Perth would be the only league team there.

2. Demographics. The demographics of Western Sydney is incredibly different to Perth. Western Sydney had at 2016 more than 40% of its citizens speaking a language other than English at home. Have you ever considered why soccer is very popular in those areas? Why League has prospered in those areas through the advent of great players of European background or its connectedness to the working class?

AFL is a pretty Anglo game so it has to overcome this cultural resistance.

Sure fumbleball is popular over there but Perth has a large population of east coast expats and from other areas where RL/RU isn’t alien.

3. The relationship of the expansion. Essentially there wasn’t a demand from the NSW government or the Western Sydney communities and business to have an AFL team. It essentially came from the AFL itself.

As the Bears bid has shown, whatever one’s feelings on the bid itself, there is an appetite from the government and business to have a league side in Perth

 

[Wb1234]

Swans, West Coast Eagles, Crows, Freemantle, arguably Brisse depending on how you are measuring success. You get the point I'm sure.

Even if they are still small in Western Sydney specifically (and I don't think anybody would deny that BTW), it's undeniable that their growth in NSW and Queensland as a whole over the past, say, 50ish years, has been monumental from where the sport was before then.

I'd even go so far as to say that GWS and the Suns are nowhere near truly failing yet, and that if the AFL can get them up over the coming decades that they'll more than pay themselves off over the come century. But that's a bit of an aside.

I don’t count wa or Adelaide

genuine expansion into nsw and qld

Swans are the only really strong club and I believe that’s largely down to super league

suns could maybe end up being a stable small club. Gws will move to Canberra it’s inevitable

 

[Colk]

Sneaky to include Perth & Adelaide teams in there. Afl has always been played in NSW & qld. Actually Sydney produced top level afl players for decades. Just now competition beats drum & tells everybody how national they are & some ppl believe it.

I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make here.

The whole point of this thread has been that AFL’s expansion hasn’t worked because nobody is watching or playing the game in RL areas, yet now you’re saying that Sydney has produced top level players for decades. That would suggest that their expansion has worked hasn’t it?

You then seem to argue with yourself and say that some people are only believing it’s national because the competition says it is? If people in Brisbane and Sydney and everywhere else in Australia watch AFL and play the game and they produce players in those areas, then that is by definition a national competition.

 

[Pippen94]

Not at all and incredibly simplistic comparison.

1. Market. GWS was put into a market in which the Swans had already been established and have carved out their niche. So they weren’t going into an empty market, they already had a competitor in the same market.

A team in Perth would be the only league team there.

2. Demographics. The demographics of Western Sydney is incredibly different to Perth. Western Sydney had at 2016 more than 40% of its citizens speaking a language other than English at home. Have you ever considered why soccer is very popular in those areas? Why League has prospered in those areas through the advent of great players of European background or its connectedness to the working class?

AFL is a pretty Anglo game so it has to overcome this cultural resistance.

Sure fumbleball is popular over there but Perth has a large population of east coast expats and from other areas where RL/RU isn’t alien.

3. The relationship of the expansion. Essentially there wasn’t a demand from the NSW government or the Western Sydney communities and business to have an AFL team. It essentially came from the AFL itself.

As the Bears bid has shown, whatever one’s feelings on the bid itself, there is an appetite from the government and business to have a league side in Perth

Looking at stats there doesn't appear to much interest in sport in western sydney regardless of the team. Swans presence was/is very minor.

Ratings for NRL games in Perth sometimes around 6k. Built up demand Perth Red talks about is overstated. Aside from bears there's no other bid.

Ignoring ur weird race theories, you think there's a cultural resistance to afl wait to u see NRL give rusted-on afl cities a go.