Where are we going to get the money from Gus?

[ratsack2]

so if we get rid of the cap we would have team like Brisbane, Melbourne, Rooters, Bulldogs all with 40-50 first graders on the books sitting on the bench or playing reserves, whilst the rest of the clubs make up numbers and get flogged each and every weekend.

yes Gould that would be great viewing, we would all like to see that, now f**k off to the hole you crawled out of

 

[philgood]

^^
Gus didnt mention anything about scrapping the salary cap. He was mentioning cap concessions for clubs who develop their own players etc.

News Limited are sucking the game dry. The quicker they are gone the better it will be for the game. What the NRL / News Ltd does with that remaining $100 million dollars annual profit is anyones guess. Thieves!

 

[seanoff]

Third party deals restrictions loosened.

/thread

this is a bullsh*t response.

No one, and i mean no one would be able to compete with Brisbane under this scenario. There is one club for 2M+ people and all those associated businesses. compare that to even Parra, they have a much smaller possible feed of sponsors. Or Canberra, or Cronulla, or pretty much everybody else.

you are just removing the salary cap by another method.

 

[Vicious]

so if we get rid of the cap we would have team like Brisbane, Melbourne, Rooters, Bulldogs all with 40-50 first graders on the books sitting on the bench or playing reserves, whilst the rest of the clubs make up numbers and get flogged each and every weekend.

yes Gould that would be great viewing, we would all like to see that, now f**k off to the hole you crawled out of

No one is saying get rid of the cap all together you imbocile. People with intelligence are saying why not let home grown players earn whatever the club that produced them wants to pay them. In other words pay them what they`re worth ??? Cap the players that are poached from other teams that have made the players what they are. I`m talking about the Dragons, the Bulldogs, the Roosters and the Eels in particular. They don`t win premierships they try and buy them, that`s far more of a disgrace then any side that creates their own stars and are penalised because of it !!!

 

[Dazzat]

The whole argument that the salary cap "punishes teams for their success" is frankly pathetic.

If winning a premiership is the pinnacle, then why should players expect more pay as a result? Shouldn't winning a premiership be enough?

Andrew Johns mourning the fact that the Newcastle team disintegrated isn't because of the cap ... it's because all the players suddenly thought they were worth more. They thought their personal worth more than keeping a winning team together.

Sorry ... absolutely no sympathy for this argument.

And for those who insist that Phil Gould isn't about abolishing the salary cap ... well I didn't hear that in today's rant. He was at his pathetic best ... all criticism and no answers ... and then had the audacity to criticise Gallop for presenting no solutions ...

 

[ozjet1]

gould's idea of a discussion is to make sure he makes his point, and no one else does, by interrupting or talking over them when it's their opportunity.

hadley is another who employs the same tactic.

no surprise that both are normally full of hot air.

 

[Springs]

How many people here want two more expansion teams in next TV deal? Now that would be $8.2 million more for player salaries. If that is applied now it is $500,000 for each club. Don't be ridiculous we have plenty of money they could raise the cap easily if they want to.

 

[Dazzat]

Expansion yes, but only through relocation.

 

[$$Poor Boy Blues$$]

when gallop was going to make a reply about the dragons losing players gould didnt want to hear it,because it didnt suit his argument


another how can clubs determine what is a elite player or not and why should this player be paid so much more like over double what someone else in his club is getting , it suppose to be a team game not an individual game

The only times a player should get more pay is when they make the representative games, and play in those games, once those games finish

they should not be getting more then $300,000 at their club

In matters such as these its always a good idea to look at games that already do it better than ourselves.

European soccer's system of compensation for youth players/developed players is a prime example. While they operate differently than us in the form of transfer fees, such a system could be implemented here in some form - with limited and minimal transfer fee rules.

b

What about starting with getting a better television deal. Maybe even a plan for where they want to take the game, you know like the AFL have.

They don't say how they can't they say how they can do.

The bottom line is the self interest of News Ltd is costing us a mint. The reality is other than Gould their is no-one who has any intelligent debate to add who has the games interest at heart.

I agree.

What Gus said was 100% correct. Rugby League cannot afford to keep punishing it`s best players by not being able to pay them what they`re worth. Why should the Melbourne Storm be punished for creating a great side, they didn`t steal anyone else`s players. The cap should only be for imported players, not for players developed by the club. As a Wests Tigers fan I understand we don`t have as much money as what most other clubs do, but I don`t want to steal other clubs players, as long as we can pay the likes of Benji, Farah and the others that we have developed what they are worth and i`m sure we can accomodate that, than who cares how much the Melbourne Storm or others pay their players ???

Gould was right on the money. He also said that clubs and players need a form of progression - an incentive to develop players and also to retain players. Here though we must be careful not to upset the balance of player movement or effective values of players. We need to find the right balance of developed players value and long serving player values. Without doing any sums, I would be proposing as a guess :

The goal being to protect clubs developed players (owing to their future ability and any loses in squad depth should he be lured away) and to encourage retention of long serving players (owing to their final ability and the value they represent to the game in order to keep them in RL by paying them more if possible) So we are paying players more but for two important reasons)

- A 20% reduction of a developed players wage effect on the cap until the age of 23.
- A developed players buy fee of say 20-30% of his contracted amount to the club who developed him should another club wish to lure him away up until the age of 23.
- A long service reduction effect on the cap accumulating 10% per year of a players contract value for every year of service at a club over the age of 25 in consecutive years, the accumulation returning to zero should he leave

Gould also convienently forgot to mention the players the Storm bought in. Yes they've developed a lot of talent over the years, but I'm pretty sure they didn't develop Finch and Crocker

He will do that, but he's on the right track. He has the right idea, and at that time I didn't think with him expressing his idea, that he needed to get too specific.

Evidently there's a lot of money in setting up marquees for games, maybe the Storm boys should get into that business... :sarcasm:

LOL!!

Have you sat back and asked yourself why our game can't afford it?

Think News LTD dealing with News LTD when it comes to broadcast deals.

Think of the profit RL makes and what percentage of that is given back to clubs.

It needs to increase.

Correct me if I am wrong here but doesn't Gould have a history of sh*tcanning the storm ? Now all of a sudden they are the brave boys who dared to play league in Melbourne and just because they systematically rort the cap they get repaid like this ? Since when diod Gould give a sh*t about the storm ? I think he took that position because he can use it as a club to try to beat Gallop with yet again.

Gould reminded me today of that guy at work who constantly whinges about what the boss should do to improve the company yet never actually steps up to the plate and gives it a go himself. If he is so passionate about things then man up, strap on pair and try to involved in running the game instead of always whinging about the decisions that are made. It is easy to have all the answers when you don't have to take any responsibility for the results of your actions.

For him say that Gallop response was crap on national tv shows such a lack of respect. It really isn't a good look for the a representative of the host broadcaster to call the CEO of the NRL's views crap. He and the fatty bagged Gallop for not going on the show on Thursdays show and treat him like a redheaded step child when he does.

Gallop mentioned that the NRL's auditors, New's auditors and the external auditors didn't pick it up yet gould called the NRL negligant and when talking about the Finch deal implied that he knew the Storm were cheating. If he knew then why didn't he speak up ? Could it be that he had no proof (much like the NRL and the auditors) ?

Could be. They really grill him. I think Gould thinks he can do a better job. But I also think that the current admin is kind of like Paul Keating was to John Howard - they are only so good and setting things up so the next generation can make a great impact. Their time is done.

Of the $150m annual revenue the game generates the clubs only get given $50m. The salary cap would rise if clubs got a bigger share of the revenue.

I think news demands such a system in order to keep costs down. We've had 10 years of it, and its time the money started to rise again. Clubs atm would use any extra money to make themselves stronger, and not waste it.

I think the next lot of money to come in should go to club survival, with a decent increase in the cap, along with new cap rules. Third party payments should increase, surely clubs should be encouraged to make more exuberant connections, plus maybe a long time ago the current figure was enough for the lowest, but not all. If, say cronulla can't afford it, too bad....its time to run as fast as we can and leave the slow behind. We are losing too much ground.

 

[gronkathon]

No problem with discussing the merits and flaws of the current cap system.

Big problem with Gould using it as an excuse just to get his agenda out there in a high publicity time for the game.

 

[Spot On]

What Gus said was 100% correct. Rugby League cannot afford to keep punishing it`s best players by not being able to pay them what they`re worth. Why should the Melbourne Storm be punished for creating a great side, they didn`t steal anyone else`s players. The cap should only be for imported players, not for players developed by the club. As a Wests Tigers fan I understand we don`t have as much money as what most other clubs do, but I don`t want to steal other clubs players, as long as we can pay the likes of Benji, Farah and the others that we have developed what they are worth and i`m sure we can accomodate that, than who cares how much the Melbourne Storm or others pay their players ???

The NRL must operate under a salary cap. That's a given. What should the limit of the cap be and the rules to third party agreements etc I don't know. But an easy way to ensure that clubs who are successful and win the comp are not broken up because the "value" of their players has now risen (assuming they are abiding by the cap) would be to massively increase the prizemoney on offer to the four teams who play in the prelim finals and then the grandfinal. The winners get x amount, the runner-up y amount, third and fourth get x amount. This prizemoney could then be spent topping up players salaries after a successful year and be paid without affecting the club's salary cap considerations. If clubs have developed their own talent and gone on to win a premiership then good on them. If individual players aren't happy with their salary and winning bonus then piss off elsewhere.

 

[FamilyFirst]

Gould and others carry on about more money for players and the cap is at fault and so on.

However he never says were we can the money from.

Its not the caps fault, the game can't afford it, except for maybe five or six teams. Thgame hasn't got enough money ATM

Anyone can make these statements but again were are we going to get the money from!!

The Tigers for example are one of the most popular teams in the comp but would be dead in a few years if it wasn't for the cap.

All that support from Melbourne making rugby league a national game will surely be worth half a billion or so in TV rights.

Some of that money should be siphoned off to help their 10000 supporters with their dental care! Wally Waldron could do the siphoning on behalf of the NRL.

 

[SCoops]

I think we need to move forward to the Independent Commission sooner rather than later. Get News Ltd. out of the running of the game asap.

From there we can look at alternatives to salary cap deals, new TV deals etc. Having News involved with running the club and game is such a conflict of interest that it is having a major effect over the game.

The longer the Storm drama plays out, I believe the longer it will be for the Independent Commission to come into running the game. This will only create more issues once the new TV deals come in. Don't be surprised to see News still running the game when the new TV deals come around so they can "sway" the new deals to Fox, so they can re coup $$ they have and will be losing to keep the Storm going.

Just make sure that Goose Gould is not on the commission.


SCoops

 

[j0nesy]

Good to see that most people can see straight through Gould's argument. He makes out as if the Storm are a golden haired child in all of this. When one team, and one team only breaches the cap, then it is blatantly obvious they are going to do well on the field. If no-one was adhering to the cap the competition would be dominated by a handful of teams, not just the Storm, and a couple of others would probably fold.

It is unfair when most teams play by the rules, one or two don't. The Dragon's are regularly forced to let go of promising young juniors, regularly sighting "salary cap pressures" as the reason. Rumour has it that they have just been forced to let Beau Henry go. They would have kept this kid at the club as the successor to Hornby, if not for the salary cap.

Sometimes I wonder what Gould's real agenda is, regularly kissing the asses of players, being outright rude and arrogant to all of the game's officials and adminsitrators. For example, he constantly cut off Gallop mid-sentence. Yet he refuses to consider the possibility that there may be few players implicated (albiet in other ways) in this scandal.

The NRL probably needs for a salary cap. But it should have been increased annually in line with inflation. I also believe that there should be some kind of transfer system in place, or atleat a reward system to ensure producer clubs are rewarded. I agree with Gallop though, this is probably not the best time to debating the cap, particularly while emotions are running high. The Storm broke the rules, they need to now accept the penalty. Once the dust settles then debate the cap.

 

[TheRam]

Gould is right and you idiots who can't see that are wrong. The salary cap needs reforming. Blind Freddie can see that. If the events of this last week haven't convinced some of you of this then you are pretty freakin slow.

Two teams have been caught now in the last 8 years in serious breach of cheating the cap and believe me there will be more if nothing changes. Do you really want to go through this type of sh*t again? We all know that many are flaunting the rules, they just haven't been caught yet is all. There are already more rumours of one other club, again way over the cap.

These ridiculous cap rules have brought the game to its knees in Victoria. All I know is that if a law is too strict in its nature and to difficult to police in practice then it is a bad law and needs to be modified or even removed. In our case we all agree we need a cap, we just need it to be modified so as it is fairer and does not place clubs in this precarious position of running the gauntlet to maintain a strong playing roster.

Also if we modified the cap correctly it would allow most of the players who would have left the NRL to stay and others who have left to return. The alternative is they police it to the extent where we start to lose many more players then we ever have before to other leagues that will pay them without penalty.

 

[mickdo]

These ridiculous cap rules have brought the game to its knees in Victoria.

No, the Storm did that

 

[TheRam]

Yes obviously, but lets not bury our heads in the sand Mickdo, the rules are way to negative to be fair.

 

[Hanscholo]

Gould's stance, particularly on the footy show today is just wrong. He is trying to change the topic into his usual axe grinding affair with gallop, and all its doing is making him look stupid. What he is forgetting is that Inglis, Smith, and co were paid enormous money to go to that club as jnrs, money which other clubs just couldnt offer those players. he says the team wasnt illegally assembled. I say it was assembled in the worst possible way. If they were local jnrs i wouldnt have a problem with it, but they arent, none of them are. To suggest that they should be given exemptions because they 'raised' them is absurd. Inglis played his schoolboy footbal for hunter sports high, if you want something that is unfair to prattle on about Gus tell us how he ended up playing for melbourne and QLD...Goulds high sense of moral standards seems to stop at the point in which teams farm other sides jnrs for players, ofcourse it does, to suggest otherwise may hurt his roosters who do the very same.

I have a lot of time for Gould, but at times his hypocracy and agendas just ruin what normally is a very intelligent man. Its a shame because its these moments that stop him from being someone who could greatly benefit the game. You want clubs that raise players to be exempt, then fine, but lets not allow clubs to get around the cap by destroying other clubs jnr systems.

 

[BIKER_DRAGON]

Stuff the cap let the weak perish

 

[gaterooze]

For each player, a club should be given a 2% concession for every year the player has been at the club since their Toyota Cup debut (up to a maximum 20%). This rewards the following desirable behaviour:

1) Developing young players and sticking with them.
2) Keeping club stalwarts to make the fans happy.
3) Keeping established players in League.

To balance this out, each club should have a 25% concession for their highest paid "marquee" player (I believe it's a $50k concession now?) - with the total of both concessions to be capped at 35% aggregate (i.e. Lockyer would get a 35% total concession for the Broncos, but if another club bought him, only 25%). This would help achieve the goal of keeping the very top players in League.