Where is the push for a 2nd Brisbane team?

[East Coast Tiger]

I just can't see the point in a second Brisbane team. I mean, if we had unlimited resources like money and players it would be fine. A game at Lang Park every weekend would be nice. But the market is pretty well covered in south east Qld. I don't see how another franchise is going to significantly improve that support base. It might help a bit but not much. The Broncos are the jewel in the RL crown in Australia in a lot of ways with crowds, profile and finances that matches many AFL clubs, which no other RL club can claim. Then there's the Titans just down the road to sew up the Gold Coast area. Between them they account for a lot of fans in that area. Anyone else who doesn't support those two follows another club like the Knights, Dragons or Warriors.

Any new club would have to play out of Lang Park which hardly helps them adopt their own local area. I don't even know what area they would cover. There's talk of "western" Brisbane but what exactly is this area? Ipswich and surrounds is not exactly a big enough or rich enough market to support a club and even though it is growing it's still a long way off somewhere like the Gold Coast. Also it's not Brisbane, it's still a separate city so playing games in Brisbane just wouldn't make sense. Meanwhile the more traditional western suburbs of Brisbane are not really RL territory. Somehow combining them with Ipswich etc is just such a weird marriage I can't see how it would work. There aren't even any Qld Cup clubs in the western suburbs anymore. The other option might be north but again it's hard to see where this new market is. Redcliffe may have a strong Qld Cup club but it's a relatively isolated peninsula with a relatively small population on its own. Some people seem to think combining north Brisbane and the Sunny Coast is a good idea but again I can't see how they fit. They might be geograhically close to some extent but they're not traditionally the same area at all. Plus the Broncos are based north of the river. Ideally we might have a club based south of the river and one north but the Broncos have such a foothold in both that I can't see how a new club could slide in and take over one area. Even the Crushers were also based north of the river and didn't have their own area by any means. They really were just a second Brisbane club, except one that was always behind the eight-ball.

To me creating a second club is just dividing the market, something that will cost at least the NRL grant of $2.5 per year, and for what? Two teams splitting one market, instead of one team dominating that market? I think the A League has shown that one team cities is the way to go. They could have tried to start new clubs in Melbourne and even Sydney (probably western Sydney) but they've avoided it and I think it's a smart approach.

By all means try and get RL a professional presence in as many markets as possible but don't waste money and a lot of effort on cramming more teams into existing, strong markets. We've already got too many teams in Sydney that are costing a packet every year. I can't imagine why we'd want to head down the same road in Brisbane.

 

[KHunt]

Give us a 2nd team. If the CC Bears don't work out then North Brisbane Bears would be the Bears last shot. Play at Lang Park or even a game or two at Dolphin Oval up at Redcliffe. Just not f**king Western Brisbane, why the f**k would you target a poorer area?

 

[Talanexor]

I touched on this in another thread but I fell it deserves one on its own. In the last couple of weeks there's has been threads about expanding the game into area's such as Perth and Central Coast.

Firstly let me just state I am in favor of a Central Coast team, possibly repackaged as the Bears. I am not as keen on a WA team HOWEVER I am not completely opposed to it either.

Brisbane is arguably the biggest Rugby League city in the world in terms of fan support and following. Every Origin game is a guaranteed sell out, Test matches attract 40K regularly. The Bronco's are an established team now and are part of the sporting history of the city. They easily draw the biggest crowds among the NRL teams. So why don't they have a same city rival?

I think before Central Coast, Perth Reds, Wellington and any other area is explored a second Brisbane team should be introduced IF expansion is indeed on the agenda.

Mate - I have nothing against you personally, but this idea is so UNBELIEVABLY F*CKING STUPID it beggars belief.

Only East Coast Tiger seems to understand this! Brisbane gets massive crowds because the WHOLE CITY supports it. Anyone who doesn't like the Broncos goes for either the Titans or the Cowboys (like me). If you put another Brisbane team in, you're not going to get ANY extra fans, you're just going to increase costs. This is the dumbest idea since the Mitsubishi 380.

Central Coast is not such a stupid idea because it is a large enough community and it is far enough away from any other teams to justify expansion.

Perth is a great idea. Wellington is a fantastic idea. For f*cks sake, Suva or Port Moresby would be better places to expand.

Seriously - does the NRL push for another team in Sydney? Does the AFL push for another Melbourne team? Expansion means taking the game OUT of the heartland and into new areas.

Go and bang your head against the wall 100 times. Like I said, nothing personal, but every time someone suggests it I can feel my brain melting again.

 

[BrisVegas]

I just can't see the point in a second Brisbane team. I mean, if we had unlimited resources like money and players it would be fine. A game at Lang Park every weekend would be nice. But the market is pretty well covered in south east Qld. I don't see how another franchise is going to significantly improve that support base. It might help a bit but not much. The Broncos are the jewel in the RL crown in Australia in a lot of ways with crowds, profile and finances that matches many AFL clubs, which no other RL club can claim. Then there's the Titans just down the road to sew up the Gold Coast area. Between them they account for a lot of fans in that area. Anyone else who doesn't support those two follows another club like the Knights, Dragons or Warriors.

Any new club would have to play out of Lang Park which hardly helps them adopt their own local area. I don't even know what area they would cover. There's talk of "western" Brisbane but what exactly is this area? Ipswich and surrounds is not exactly a big enough or rich enough market to support a club and even though it is growing it's still a long way off somewhere like the Gold Coast. Also it's not Brisbane, it's still a separate city so playing games in Brisbane just wouldn't make sense. Meanwhile the more traditional western suburbs of Brisbane are not really RL territory. Somehow combining them with Ipswich etc is just such a weird marriage I can't see how it would work. There aren't even any Qld Cup clubs in the western suburbs anymore. The other option might be north but again it's hard to see where this new market is. Redcliffe may have a strong Qld Cup club but it's a relatively isolated peninsula with a relatively small population on its own. Some people seem to think combining north Brisbane and the Sunny Coast is a good idea but again I can't see how they fit. They might be geograhically close to some extent but they're not traditionally the same area at all. Plus the Broncos are based north of the river. Ideally we might have a club based south of the river and one north but the Broncos have such a foothold in both that I can't see how a new club could slide in and take over one area. Even the Crushers were also based north of the river and didn't have their own area by any means. They really were just a second Brisbane club, except one that was always behind the eight-ball.

To me creating a second club is just dividing the market, something that will cost at least the NRL grant of $2.5 per year, and for what? Two teams splitting one market, instead of one team dominating that market? I think the A League has shown that one team cities is the way to go. They could have tried to start new clubs in Melbourne and even Sydney (probably western Sydney) but they've avoided it and I think it's a smart approach.

By all means try and get RL a professional presence in as many markets as possible but don't waste money and a lot of effort on cramming more teams into existing, strong markets. We've already got too many teams in Sydney that are costing a packet every year. I can't imagine why we'd want to head down the same road in Brisbane.

I agree that adding an additional team to Brisbane is just diluting the potential market. SE-QLD will however be able to sustain another team in ~ 10 years time, and the addition of a new team will bring many benefits.

SE-QLD in general is set to boom over the next 17 years, it is the fastest growing region in the country, with the current population of 2.7m to rise by over 50% to over 4m - a population greater than Melbourne.

The population of the Sunshine Coast reached 300k last year, and is projected to be in the vicinity of 430k to 520k by 2026 - exactly where the Gold Coast currently is (population of 527k, 2007 figure).

A Sunshine Coast team will not just benefit the local community, but strengthen other clubs as well. Broncos V Titans/Cowboys are already sell-out blockbusters that bring in huge revenue for the club hosting the match and the league in general via media rights - Brisbane V Gold Coast out-rated the Olympics last year - and almost NOTHING out rates the Olympics.

You add a 4th QLD club and the number of QLD derby games are doubled from 6 to 12. The draw could be set so that games such as Gold Coast V Sunshine Coast could be played at Lang Park on a Sunday afternoon to draw a capacity crowd.

Add to that the media saturation and hype generated in the lead up to derby games, the number of QLD raised rugby league players in the NRL and SL, and the fact that the Broncos, Titans and Cowboys are all profitable and turning away sponsors, and a 3rd SE-QLD team becomes a very attractive proposition - just don't base it out of Brisbane.

 

[East Coast Tiger]

I agree that adding an additional team to Brisbane is just diluting the potential market. SE-QLD will however be able to sustain another team in ~ 10 years time, and the addition of a new team will bring many benefits.

SE-QLD in general is set to boom over the next 17 years, it is the fastest growing region in the country, with the current population of 2.7m to rise by over 50% to over 4m - a population greater than Melbourne.

The population of the Sunshine Coast reached 300k last year, and is projected to be in the vicinity of 430k to 520k by 2026 - exactly where the Gold Coast currently is (population of 527k, 2007 figure).

A Sunshine Coast team will not just benefit the local community, but strengthen other clubs as well. Broncos V Titans/Cowboys are already sell-out blockbusters that bring in huge revenue for the club hosting the match and the league in general via media rights - Brisbane V Gold Coast out-rated the Olympics last year - and almost NOTHING out rates the Olympics.

You add a 4th QLD club and the number of QLD derby games are doubled from 6 to 12. The draw could be set so that games such as Gold Coast V Sunshine Coast could be played at Lang Park on a Sunday afternoon to draw a capacity crowd.

Add to that the media saturation and hype generated in the lead up to derby games, the number of QLD raised rugby league players in the NRL and SL, and the fact that the Broncos, Titans and Cowboys are all profitable and turning away sponsors, and a 3rd SE-QLD team becomes a very attractive proposition - just don't base it out of Brisbane.

I agree that if the population grows significantly, as expected, it makes more sense to expand the number of clubs there. But it really has to be a distinctly new market. A Sunshine Coast team may be the way to go - one day. But it's quite a long term thing. The population across the coast and hinterland may be growing but it's a long way off being big enough to host a team and the population is still fairly spread with no one major centre. More significantly its infrastructure and corporate possibilities are way off where they need to be. They only have a small stadium and transport would be a big problem. And unlike the Gold Coast there isn't the business interests in their backyard that clubs need more than just about anything else.

Maybe in 10 years it will start to look more possible but even then I think it might not stack up to other possible expansion areas. Just because the whole SEQ region undergoes huge growth it doesn't mean there is one unique market within it that could and should house its own NRL club. It's a case of wait and see. Maybe Manly will move there. Maybe another club will. Who knows.

 

[TheBourbonBeast]

Its all good up here, we dont need another team.

The NRL needs to shrink, not grow, in my opinion. Dump 3 Sydney teams, (souths, tigers, panthers)

Maybe perth down the line, maybe PNG. But not for another 10 years.

 

[BrisVegas]

I agree that if the population grows significantly, as expected, it makes more sense to expand the number of clubs there. But it really has to be a distinctly new market. A Sunshine Coast team may be the way to go - one day. But it's quite a long term thing. The population across the coast and hinterland may be growing but it's a long way off being big enough to host a team and the population is still fairly spread with no one major centre. More significantly its infrastructure and corporate possibilities are way off where they need to be. They only have a small stadium and transport would be a big problem. And unlike the Gold Coast there isn't the business interests in their backyard that clubs need more than just about anything else.

Maybe in 10 years it will start to look more possible but even then I think it might not stack up to other possible expansion areas. Just because the whole SEQ region undergoes huge growth it doesn't mean there is one unique market within it that could and should house its own NRL club. It's a case of wait and see. Maybe Manly will move there. Maybe another club will. Who knows.

It is something that is about 10-15 years away, and other expansion area's should be of a higher priority (such as Perth), but early level planning couldn't hurt.

The newly formed Sunshine Coast Regional Council, an amalgamation of the City of Caloundra, Shire of Maroochydore, and Shire of Noosa, should be of assistance as far as infrastructure is concerned. Hopefully the Council will work with the Federal and State governments and the NRL to develop an stadium within walking distance of the Caboolture to Maroochydore Train Corridor that is due for completion in 2026 (the government is currently in the process of acquiring the land).

​

Business interests based on the Sunshine Coast should grow as the population does, although the major sponsors for all 3 QLD teams are either International (Toyota) or National (WOW Sight and Sound, Jet Star) organisations, so the coast would only be required to secure homegrown 2nd tier sponsors.

 

[The Tank]

Tigers? Are you f**king serious?

 

[Scarves]

A second Brisbane team? Only if you wanted to waste money on a pointless experiment. I agree Qld should score another club and probably before Perth, but Brisbane is the Broncos and that area is booming because of it.

 

[OVP]

Q: Where is the push for a 2nd Brisbane team?

There was a push by the then ARL for a second Brisbane team. The Brisbane Blonkos created SuperFilthLeague because of this. How dare that Rugby League's true and proper governing body had the gall to want another Brisbane team ?? !! We are the Bonkos!! f**k you you little pissants we'll create our own comp....

They got sh*t on by the ARL comp because League will ALWAYS be stronger and more supported in NSW than anywhere else. Superfilth League came begging back. FU Arko for letting them in the door. You should have SHUT IT for good.

They, the Qlders, still dont get it. Taking out your biggest market is simply R-tarded. <--- Look, Qlders, thats you !!

 

[MsStorm]

To me creating a second club is just dividing the market, something that will cost at least the NRL grant of $2.5 per year, and for what? Two teams splitting one market, instead of one team dominating that market? I think the A League has shown that one team cities is the way to go. They could have tried to start new clubs in Melbourne and even Sydney (probably western Sydney) but they've avoided it and I think it's a smart approach.

Melbourne Heart will be the 2nd A League team in Melbourne...

By all means try and get RL a professional presence in as many markets as possible but don't waste money and a lot of effort on cramming more teams into existing, strong markets. We've already got too many teams in Sydney that are costing a packet every year. I can't imagine why we'd want to head down the same road in Brisbane.

Agree with your point, which is underlined.

 

[Tidus_Raider]

Anyone who thinks a second RL team will not flourish in the NRL only has to do some research on the old Brisbane Rugby League competition which regularly attracted crowds of 20-30K for clubs games against suburban sides. A team now on a national scalewould do the same.

The argument of diluting the market is rubbish. Granted there are too many teams in Sydney HOWEVER in the west we have the Tigers, Eels, Panthers, Bulldogs. In the South-East we have Roosters, Rabbitohs, Dragons,Sharks.

Yet ask the supporters of these clubs whether they should reloacate or merge and its World war 3.

I don't fathom how people say a second team WON't be successful. In 1995 the South Queensland Crushers were admitted. There story is horrible howeverone telling statistic is

1995 Average Crowds

Crushers - 21K (Approx)

Broncos - 38K (Approx, probably abit more)

And that was 15 odd years ago with Super League on the horizon and an UNSUCESFUL Crushers teamon the field. The Cushers didn't take no fans from the Broncos, they DIDN't dilute the market and the one game played between the two sides drew 49K people at ANZ stadium.

The Crushers failed because they had no backing, no support. A team with this would make it.

 

[Bluebags1908]

I reckon a 2nd South East Queensland team is a must eventually. Whether they should be the next ones in I'm not sure. And it will screw up the AFL for sure.

Bring back the South Queensland Crushers!

 

[Iafeta]

Anyone who thinks a second RL team will not flourish in the NRL only has to do some research on the old Brisbane Rugby League competition which regularly attracted crowds of 20-30K for clubs games against suburban sides. A team now on a national scalewould do the same.

The argument of diluting the market is rubbish. Granted there are too many teams in Sydney HOWEVER in the west we have the Tigers, Eels, Panthers, Bulldogs. In the South-East we have Roosters, Rabbitohs, Dragons,Sharks.

Yet ask the supporters of these clubs whether they should reloacate or merge and its World war 3.

I don't fathom how people say a second team WON't be successful. In 1995 the South Queensland Crushers were admitted. There story is horrible howeverone telling statistic is

1995 Average Crowds

Crushers - 21K (Approx)

Broncos - 38K (Approx, probably abit more)

And that was 15 odd years ago with Super League on the horizon and an UNSUCESFUL Crushers teamon the field. The Cushers didn't take no fans from the Broncos, they DIDN't dilute the market and the one game played between the two sides drew 49K people at ANZ stadium.

The Crushers failed because they had no backing, no support. A team with this would make it.

South Queensland Crushers... hmmm, good argument. Nice to see you only allowed us access to one season's worth of crowds. First season club's usually experience higher than usual crowds due to the novelty. What happened after that, of course, we must be mindful of the 'war' and it's effect in general of splitting crowds, but for the record this is the result...

1996: 13,016
1997: 7,003

For the record, it's not all about crowd numbers, either. Otherwise the Warriors at times would be struggling for an NRL license. Of course, when the going's good their crowds are good but they sometimes have brief periods where they go down near the Crushers 1997 numbers. It's about what they can bring to the code in the short and long term. The Brisbane/Gold Coast market is a very strong market parochially supporting local teams, I'm not sure why you'd want to change that. More games doesn't mean the mean gate will be the same and therefore a large increase in aggregate. Market economics will teach you that much, the Sydney market much the same.

The other questions the NRL expansion committee must ask itself are;

A) What effect does this have on the media rights? Is the value increased due to firstly more games, and secondly extra exposure to national/international marketers for their product?
B) Do they have the infrastructure?
C) Do we have the playing numbers?
D) What is the area's demographic changes, not only population, but sub-demographic make ups also?
E) Will the new team erode into any other club's revenues?

The value of going to Wellington is not necessarily massive crowd numbers, but you're further exploring a country of 4,000,000 for international marketers. Also, it would assist in growth and development of their competition to boost the international competition's consistency and bring about extra revenues to the NRL.

 

[Tidus_Raider]

What happened after that, of course, we must be mindful of the 'war' and it's effect in general of splitting crowds, but for the record this is the result...

1996: 13,016
1997: 7,003

A) What effect does this have on the media rights? Is the value increased due to firstly more games, and secondly extra exposure to national/international marketers for their product?
B) Do they have the infrastructure?
C) Do we have the playing numbers?
D) What is the area's demographic changes, not only population, but sub-demographic make ups also?
E) Will the new team erode into any other club's revenues?

After the first year it was quite obvious the Crushers were going to be culled. Combine that with poor on field form and you have a recipe for disaster. The reason I included the crushers into the debate was to show that THEY DIDN'T DWINDLE THE BRONCOS SUPPORTERS which is what a lot of people think will happen if a second Brisbane side is introduced.

Besides you cant use the Crushers as an example. That was 15 odd years ago. Its like saying a new Gold Coast team is going to fail because the old Sea Gulls did. Look where the titans are now.

Brisbane has the infrastructure. Brisbane has the players, you only have to look at the past 3 state of origin series and the amount of queenslanders playing for non-QLD teams. It certainly has the appetite and culture for it.

The only downside is it might not increase media rights HOWEVER there is a good chance it might given the fact RL in Queenland would have almost blanket coverage in all forms of media.

 

[Iafeta]

After the first year it was quite obvious the Crushers were going to be culled. Combine that with poor on field form and you have a recipe for disaster. The reason I included the crushers into the debate was to show that THEY DIDN'T DWINDLE THE BRONCOS SUPPORTERS which is what a lot of people think will happen if a second Brisbane side is introduced.

Besides you cant use the Crushers as an example. That was 15 odd years ago. Its like saying a new Gold Coast team is going to fail because the old Sea Gulls did. Look where the titans are now.

Brisbane has the infrastructure. Brisbane has the players, you only have to look at the past 3 state of origin series and the amount of queenslanders playing for non-QLD teams. It certainly has the appetite and culture for it.

The only downside is it might not increase media rights HOWEVER there is a good chance it might given the fact RL in Queenland would have almost blanket coverage in all forms of media.

My point exactly. It was a very poor example of you to use. You decided to use the 1995 season, deceptively and out of context, I've merely expanded on their entire history to put your example into context for what it was, a poor example.

 

[God-King Dean]

Question: Who the fudge would support this team ?

The Broncos are already there, & the Queensland RL fans who don't like them would either support a team out of state or got swept up by Cowboys & Titans.

 

[_Johnsy]

I just can't see the point in a second Brisbane team.

Yeah we can't have another team moving in on the monopoly you guys have.

 

[Tidus_Raider]

My point exactly. It was a very poor example of you to use. You decided to use the 1995 season, deceptively and out of context, I've merely expanded on their entire history to put your example into context for what it was, a poor example.

The point of including them in the argument was to highlight the fact that even though FOR THEIR FIRST SEASON they regularly attracted crowds in excess of 20K at a run down Lang Park in need of serious upgrade, the broncos continued to also attract crowds of 30K plus cracked 40K regularly.

The point is - They did not erode none of the broncos supporter base. At all. And the one game between them attracted 49K to ANZ Stadium.

 

[GC_Gladiator]

An Ipswich/West Brisbane team is a must along with a central coast team in the future. Both would be easily sustainable- both areas very strong league wise. Neither would need to be held up by the NRL. In tough financial times- I believe these two sides are the best way to increase television revenue with minimal risk. Brisbane has a population of around two million people, yet some here are worried that Brisbane Broncos may not be able to pull 40,000 each week.

Brisbane is a large geographical area, a lot of people couldn't be bothered the hassle of getting into the city just for a game of footy. Take the games out to Ipswich (one of South East Qlds fastest growing areas) and build a stadium if you have too.

And not everyone in Brisbane supports the broncos. Alot of brisbaners despise the broncos. They were the team that took football away from Queenslanders. It absolutely sucked being 12 years old and not being able to watch your favourite team because they were on foxtel and not free to air.

Leave Perth until the economy is a little more stable and the league has consolidated a bit- and support the area's that have always supported the league like Ipswich/West Brisbane and the central coast.