Where will the Penrith Panthers finish in 2019?

[mxlegend99]

So Moylan wasn't told he wouldn't be re-signed. Only to get a game when Whare and Wes got injured? Blake started on the wing while Lewis Brown started centre. Will Smith was FB over DWZ and was the halves instead of Moylan.

Ivan loved his top 17 too many it was a fault when the rookies became better then those guys. This year a lot more rookies so will have no choice so I guess we see what happens through the year

Moylan was a lazy trainer as we all know. He wasnt part of our top 25 either and so what was Ivan to do? Breach our second tier salary cap for a guy with a bad attitude in training?

Ivans hands were tied by our top 25 and the players who were fit. We had to get exemptions for Moylan to play and argue with the NRL that Wes wasnt a fullback to keep him in the team. The salary cap put is in that position.

As for Blake, he played 7 games at centre before injuries forved Ivan to shuffle the backline around and put him on the wing. And nearly all his games on the wing we had Isaah Yeo at centre.

In 1 game only did he play wing with Lewis Brown at centre. In that game we had Moylan, DWZ, Whare, Idris, Simmons and Wallace all injured in our backline.

The following week Simmons returned and we had the luxury of Blake playing centre again.

11 games of the 18 he played were at centre... and more to the point a centre playing wing is something every f**king coach does when there are injuries. Hook had Blake on the wing several times aswell. Well and truly after he had shown he was a poor winger.

Debuted with us in 2005, before Ivan was even a first grade coach.

Hence him having an asterick by his name like the other players who didnt actually debut under him, but were part of him building a good rosyer without blowing the cap open.

 

[mxlegend99]

Of course some players get a start when others are injured, that has been happening for 100 years at every club that has ever existed! That doesn't mean the only time players debuted was because of injury.

Isaah Yeo debuted round 1 2014 with experienced NRL players playing NSW cup that week in his position. Same for RCG round 1 2015. They are off the top of my head, Im not checking any more but they will be there for sure. We had Yeo, Dallin and Carty as regulars at the same time while they were all teenagers.

Don't forget all the journeymen that debuted under Ivan in 2012/13. Matt Robinson, Ryan Simpkins, Mitch Achurch, there are a lot.

Apparently debuts don't count if there's an injury.

Yet go andlook at the circumstances for Edwards debuting in 2016, Crichton debuting in 2018, for the debuts of May, Luai, Aekins etc. And would you look at that... injuries and/or Origin got them a start too.

In 3 years with Hook we didnt have any centres make their NRL debut and our only wingers to make an NRL debut were MWZ (1 game), Edwards (2 games on the wing) and Crichton played pretty much a whole season.

Amazingly Hooks first instinct was not to debut new backs, but shuffle players around.

In 2016 when we lost both centres for the season he did what Ivan did. He moved a bench utility to 1 position. Filled the other with Blake. When we got injuries he also shifted CHN and Yeo.

The only difference Hook had in debuting players was he couldnt settle on a halves pairing. For the rest of the team he was no more likely to make an unforced debut than Ivan was.

 

[betcats]

Apparently debuts don't count if there's an injury.

Yet go andlook at the circumstances for Edwards debuting in 2016, Crichton debuting in 2018, for the debuts of May, Luai, Aekins etc. And would you look at that... injuries and/or Origin got them a start too.

In 3 years with Hook we didnt have any centres make their NRL debut and our only wingers to make an NRL debut were MWZ (1 game), Edwards (2 games on the wing) and Crichton played pretty much a whole season.

Amazingly Hooks first instinct was not to debut new backs, but shuffle players around.

In 2016 when we lost both centres for the season he did what Ivan did. He moved a bench utility to 1 position. Filled the other with Blake. When we got injuries he also shifted CHN and Yeo.

The only difference Hook had in debuting players was he couldnt settle on a halves pairing. For the rest of the team he was no more likely to make an unforced debut than Ivan was.

Yep, its just part of the game, there are always injuries. Guys like Carty, Dallin, Waqa, Yeo etc were always on a fast track to first grade. You cannot just say they only debuted because of injuries. Same as guys like Edwards, Cleary, Kikau, Egan etc

 

[franklin2323]

Moylan was a lazy trainer as we all know. He wasnt part of our top 25 either and so what was Ivan to do? Breach our second tier salary cap for a guy with a bad attitude in training?

Ivans hands were tied by our top 25 and the players who were fit. We had to get exemptions for Moylan to play and argue with the NRL that Wes wasnt a fullback to keep him in the team. The salary cap put is in that position.

As for Blake, he played 7 games at centre before injuries forved Ivan to shuffle the backline around and put him on the wing. And nearly all his games on the wing we had Isaah Yeo at centre.

In 1 game only did he play wing with Lewis Brown at centre. In that game we had Moylan, DWZ, Whare, Idris, Simmons and Wallace all injured in our backline.

The following week Simmons returned and we had the luxury of Blake playing centre again.

11 games of the 18 he played were at centre... and more to the point a centre playing wing is something every f**king coach does when there are injuries. Hook had Blake on the wing several times aswell. Well and truly after he had shown he was a poor winger.

2014. Moylan could of played 5/8th over Will Smith. If it was hook you'd be saying it was a poor choice.

To me it seems like Ivan coaches not lose footy games instead of trying to win. Which takes older guys that don't shit the bed. So it will be interesting to see how this year goes with high expections

 

[TheFrog]

To me it seems like Ivan coaches not lose footy games instead of trying to win. Which takes older guys that don't shit the bed. So it will be interesting to see how this year goes with high expections

He had a 50% win record with what was really a bits and pieces side last year. Had they got a fair go from the whistlemen on a couple of occasions they might have made the 8.

 

[betcats]

To me it seems like Ivan coaches not lose footy games instead of trying to win. Which takes older guys that don't shit the bed. So it will be interesting to see how this year goes with high expections

He is just a defensive minded coach who struggles with the attack. He isn’t a risk averse coach like hook(banning attacking kicks etc).

One thing Ivan has made a habit out of is getting the best out his halves.

Johnson and Maloney were fairly inexperienced pairing that went to a gf with Ivan. He then took Sowie and Isaac John off the scrap heap and got them playing very well while they were in the side. Then brooks last year finished high in the dally m awards and played his best footy in years.

If he can get Cleary and Maloney playing consistently good all year then we can do anything. We need that to happen tho.

 

[franklin2323]

He is just a defensive minded coach who struggles with the attack. He isn’t a risk averse coach like hook(banning attacking kicks etc).

One thing Ivan has made a habit out of is getting the best out his halves.

Johnson and Maloney were fairly inexperienced pairing that went to a gf with Ivan. He then took Sowie and Isaac John off the scrap heap and got them playing very well while they were in the side. Then brooks last year finished high in the dally m awards and played his best footy in years.

If he can get Cleary and Maloney playing consistently good all year then we can do anything. We need that to happen tho.

rumours like Hook banning the kick is where it goes strange. Stats from last show we had a decent short kicking game and why would Brandy coach the halves to not kick?

The players alone should get into the 8. Whether the coaching and tactics from their is enough we will know in about 6 months

 

[betcats]

rumours like Hook banning the kick is where it goes strange. Stats from last show we had a decent short kicking game and why would Brandy coach the halves to not kick?

The players alone should get into the 8. Whether the coaching and tactics from their is enough we will know in about 6 months

In 2016 Brad Fitler was talking about hook banning attacking kicks and how stupid it is. That was during the game commentaryon channel 9. It’s not a rumour imo it’s as good as come from Gould’s own mouth if Fitler said it. There is no way Fitler would just make it up and then talk about how stupid it is, he and Gould are very close.

 

[franklin2323]

In 2016 Brad Fitler was talking about hook banning attacking kicks and how stupid it is. That was during the game commentaryon channel 9. It’s not a rumour imo it’s as good as come from Gould’s own mouth if Fitler said it. There is no way Fitler would just make it up and then talk about how stupid it is, he and Gould are very close.

Wasn't Gus doing our gameplan then? The spine situation changed for the better now. Maloney was 3rd in Forced line drop outs. So maybe it was then but changed over the last season

Cleary still struggles inside the 20. As a rookie then even more so. Bryce was 6. Moylan fullback. Those 2 are off the cuff players so would of played what was infront

 

[TheEroticGamer]

I'm not sure what people are expecting in attack from a team where their best player is Esan f***ing Marsters, or the five eighth is Will Smith.

Cleary not knowing how to coach in attack is a complete myth.

 

[franklin2323]

Every 3 of the hook years we have scored more points then Ivan's 2014 team and the 2011 Warriors GF team. How is that a myth? It is what it is

 

[TheEroticGamer]

It helps when you have players half of the team coming of age instead of having inexperienced players or journeymen filling up the team.

Yes, it's a myth. Just like the easy draw garbage.

M-y-t-h

 

[billypilgrimnz]

It helps when you have players half of the team coming of age instead of having inexperienced players or journeymen filling up the team.

Yes, it's a myth. Just like the easy draw garbage.

M-y-t-h

It's really not. He is shit at coaching attack. You being able to spell a four-letter word doesn't really change that.

 

[Exsilium]

He had a 50% win record with what was really a bits and pieces side last year. Had they got a fair go from the whistlemen on a couple of occasions they might have made the 8.

He had a win percentage of 45% over three seasons with a Panthers side many would argue was better then what the Tigers had this season.

He’ll have nowhere to hide if we fail to meet expectations, especially if you believe the hype that we’re a top four side.

 

[franklin2323]

He had a win percentage of 45% over three seasons with a Panthers side many would argue was better then what the Tigers had this season.

He’ll have nowhere to hide if we fail to meet expectations, especially if you believe the hype that we’re a top four side.

For some reason Ivan's dud calls get excused yet hooks was hung for his.

2016- Hook messed up with player selections. Sure if we ignore the injuries.

2014 Ivan does the exact same thing in not moving Moylan to half yet he gets let off.

2015- poor Ivan with the injuries.

2018 our spine plays 2.5 games together. Mansour/Blake miss huge chunks of the year. RCG does his jaw. May/Luai spends chunks of the year out so need to play the halves through Origin- but the coach should go.

What is good for one is good for other. It is good people want more than just finals. Ivan being a nice guy means nothing if he can't get the team where it should be

 

[betcats]

For some reason Ivan's dud calls get excused yet hooks was hung for his.

2016- Hook messed up with player selections. Sure if we ignore the injuries.

2014 Ivan does the exact same thing in not moving Moylan to half yet he gets let off.

2015- poor Ivan with the injuries.

2018 our spine plays 2.5 games together. Mansour/Blake miss huge chunks of the year. RCG does his jaw. May/Luai spends chunks of the year out so need to play the halves through Origin- but the coach should go.

What is good for one is good for other. It is good people want more than just finals. Ivan being a nice guy means nothing if he can't get the team where it should be

Yeah Ivan really got let off in 2015 mate. You keep talking like he didn't take us further then Hook ever did with a better squad. IF hook got closer to the results he should've the criticism of him would of been a lot more subdued as well, but all he did was underachieve and piss people off. You've literally spent months questioning every criticism of Hook, the guy had numerous players celebrating his sacking which says it all. Even when the Moylan shit went down you made up all this shit about drugs and storming into Goulds office, turns out it was just two guys who didn't like each other according to Hook himself. You are constantly making shit up to make Hook seem better, just stop.

And since when is Ivan a nice guy? He seems stand-offish to me, he is just isn't a controlling arsehole who is constantly at loggerheads with his own players.

 

[betcats]

Every 3 of the hook years we have scored more points then Ivan's 2014 team and the 2011 Warriors GF team. How is that a myth? It is what it is

Accoding to NRL.com the 2014 team outscored the 2017 team.

 

[franklin2323]

Yeah Ivan really got let off in 2015 mate. You keep talking like he didn't take us further then Hook ever did with a better squad. IF hook got closer to the results he should've the criticism of him would of been a lot more subdued as well, but all he did was underachieve and piss people off. You've literally spent months questioning every criticism of Hook, the guy had numerous players celebrating his sacking which says it all. Even when the Moylan shit went down you made up all this shit about drugs and storming into Goulds office, turns out it was just two guys who didn't like each other according to Hook himself. You are constantly making shit up to make Hook seem better, just stop.

And since when is Ivan a nice guy? He seems stand-offish to me, he is just isn't a controlling arsehole who is constantly at loggerheads with his own players.

So why the love for him then? I just don't get it.

We won one final. Lost one every year for the last 4 times we made it. Not good enough by any standards

Where did I say hook could coach? I have said there was stuff that made us not as good as we could/should of been.

 

[franklin2323]

Accoding to NRL.com the 2014 team outscored the 2017 team.

sorry. I wrote them down wrong. 2 points different in that still nothing to say we will fix our attack issues with Ivan in

 

[betcats]

So why the love for him then? I just don't get it.

We won one final. Lost one every year for the last 4 times we made it. Not good enough by any standards

Where did I say hook could coach? I have said there was stuff that made us not as good as we could/should of been.

Seems to be more here who didn't want him back then did.

I am Ivans biggest fan here and even I wanted him sacked at times in his last stint. That being said I think he is good coach who gets more out of players than other coaches do.