Which Team has the largest number of fans.

[Willow]

Looks like a fair chunk of thread hijacking from a couple of bitter Raiders fans. Good luck in 2011.

Back on topic, below is a news item from today. I believe the parts in bold are relevant to the actual discussion:

[excerpts...]
Former Dragons pay tribute to fantastic supporters


BY MICHAEL CHAMMAS

Former Dragon Brad Mackay has fired a shot at Wests Tigers supporters in the lead-up to Saturday night's preliminary final showdown at ANZ Stadium.
...


"We've got the biggest supporter base statewide as well."
Mackay laughed off predictions from good mate and former Tiger Ben Elias, who claimed Tigers supporters would outnumber the Dragons two to one. "He's kidding himself," Mackay said. "Benny's been talking on his mobile for too long and he's got brain damage."
...

...statistics that prove Dragons fans are the more loyal of the two clubs.


Wests Tigers only managed to secure 6583 club members this season, less than half of St George Illawarra's 15,711.
Adding to the resounding membership figure, the Dragons have also attracted the three largest Sydney crowds in 2010 (against the Roosters in round seven and 22, and against the Bulldogs in round 10).

The Dragons are also the only Sydney team to attract a crowd of more than 40,000 for a match outside Sydney.

More: http://www.illawarramercury.com.au/news/local/sport/rugby-league/former-dragons-pay-tribute-to-fantastic-supporters/1946855.aspx

Regarding the ticket membership numbers, I was of the understanding that the top three were (figures at the beginning of the year):

1. Broncos
2. Rabbitohs
3. Dragons

The Rabbitohs and Dragons being neck-and-neck for the most supported teams in Sydney.

I recall that the same two teams were the first to crack the 10,000 membership over the 2009/2010 offseason, and this was achieved in pretty much the same week.


Does anyone have any up-to-date figures on ticket club membership numbers?

 

[user_nat]

Whilst their average was done a fair amount this year.. surely the Titans are up there?

Seems they wouldn't be that far behind some of the Sydney clubs.

 

[Raiders_Premiers]

Looks like a fair chunk of thread hijacking from a couple of bitter Raiders fans. Good luck in 2011.

Thread hijacking? Something that's pretty familiar to your fans I would I have thought considering the amount of posts lately on the main board :lol:

 

[CMUX]

Raw numbers for the average home crowds of each team over the last 10 years.

Brisbane – 29,029
Titans (4 seasons) – 20,041
Bulldogs – 17,925
Knights – 17,725
Cowboys – 16,681
Tigers – 16,383
Parramatta – 14,252
Dragons – 13,851
Penrith – 13,759
Manly (8 seasons) – 13,614
Souths (9 seasons) – 13,417
Roosters – 13,306
Warriors – 13,093
Sharks – 12,554
Canberra – 11,516
Storm – 11,015

I don’t see how any Sydney club other than Wests and Canterbury can claim to have the biggest supporter base

 

[Slackboy72]

Gee there's a lot of dick waving going on in here. So I'll add to it...
There's a reason why the Broncos and Dragons dominate Friday Night Football.
If you look at away crowd attendances (thus negating the issues of selling out the smaller boutique grounds) I would say that there is a reason that the Broncos, Knights and Raiders all ask for home games against the Dragons. Does this indicate that we are better supported, have a more dispersed fanbase or just better travelers? I don't know.

 

[Y2Eel]

Looks like a fair chunk of thread hijacking from a couple of bitter Raiders fans. Good luck in 2011.

Back on topic, below is a news item from today. I believe the parts in bold are relevant to the actual discussion:

[excerpts...]
Former Dragons pay tribute to fantastic supporters


BY MICHAEL CHAMMAS

Former Dragon Brad Mackay has fired a shot at Wests Tigers supporters in the lead-up to Saturday night's preliminary final showdown at ANZ Stadium.
...


"We've got the biggest supporter base statewide as well."
Mackay laughed off predictions from good mate and former Tiger Ben Elias, who claimed Tigers supporters would outnumber the Dragons two to one. "He's kidding himself," Mackay said. "Benny's been talking on his mobile for too long and he's got brain damage."
...

...statistics that prove Dragons fans are the more loyal of the two clubs.


Wests Tigers only managed to secure 6583 club members this season, less than half of St George Illawarra's 15,711.
Adding to the resounding membership figure, the Dragons have also attracted the three largest Sydney crowds in 2010 (against the Roosters in round seven and 22, and against the Bulldogs in round 10).

The Dragons are also the only Sydney team to attract a crowd of more than 40,000 for a match outside Sydney.

More: http://www.illawarramercury.com.au/news/local/sport/rugby-league/former-dragons-pay-tribute-to-fantastic-supporters/1946855.aspx

Regarding the ticket membership numbers, I was of the understanding that the top three were (figures at the beginning of the year):

1. Broncos
2. Rabbitohs
3. Dragons

The Rabbitohs and Dragons being neck-and-neck for the most supported teams in Sydney.

I recall that the same two teams were the first to crack the 10,000 membership over the 2009/2010 offseason, and this was achieved in pretty much the same week.


Does anyone have any up-to-date figures on ticket club membership numbers?

Round 15 Jun 18-21
Fri BRI v PEN SU 42,233

Parra also got 38000 but whats 2000 supporters when your trying to make yourself look good....

 

[Jason Maher]

Round 15 Jun 18-21
Fri BRI v PEN SU 42,233

Parra also got 38000 but whats 2000 supporters when your trying to make yourself look good....

I can't believe you just tried to claim a double header crowd as comparable to the Broncos-Saints game. I guess we should just assume all the Tits and Dogs fans would have joined the 35 Penrith fans even if their teams hadn't been playing the second game, out of pure interest?

p.s. The article was a response to the deluded comment of the erstwhile Mr B. Elias. Saints fans travel, and they travel in numbers. Our problem is getting fans to our home games, not our away games. Of course Elias knows this full well, and was simply stirring the pot to help promote Saturday's game. If it helps ensure a massive crowd, then I guess good on him.

 

[Timmah]

It's not that much lower. The bulldogs home average was 18 ,709 and ours was 17 080. Our average this year was even higher than that of the dragons who had 16, 820.

Depends if you want to count the double header, which takes the 'Dogs up to 20k-odd

 

[Timmah]

If Kogarah or 'Gong held 10k more I think we'd get a much better gauge of how the Dragons support is actually represented.

Additionally if they didn't always get FNF that would probably help numbers too.

 

[Y2Eel]

I can't believe you just tried to claim a double header crowd as comparable to the Broncos-Saints game. I guess we should just assume all the Tits and Dogs fans would have joined the 35 Penrith fans even if their teams hadn't been playing the second game, out of pure interest?

p.s. The article was a response to the deluded comment of the erstwhile Mr B. Elias. Saints fans travel, and they travel in numbers. Our problem is getting fans to our home games, not our away games. Of course Elias knows this full well, and was simply stirring the pot to help promote Saturday's game. If it helps ensure a massive crowd, then I guess good on him.

Wasnt stated anywhere that it couldnt be a double header.... Didnt expect it to get picked up that fast damn it:shock:


I dont think St George would have a problem with getting 25-30000 fans to home games if they had the capacity to seat them all...

 

[Jason Maher]

If Kogarah or 'Gong held 10k more I think we'd get a much better gauge of how the Dragons support is actually represented.

Additionally if they didn't always get FNF that would probably help numbers too.

I believe the capacity of the Gong is going up to 22,500 with the current upgrades. They could probably get it up to around 25,000 if they filled in the 3 corners that don't currently have stands. The problem is getting funding from a broke NSW government (or the federal government) for what are some of the safest Labor seats in the country.

I personally think it should be possible to get both our stadiums up to around the 25,000 mark. I don't favour the all-seater approach, though. Seating on 3 sides and preserving the hills at both grounds is the way to go. Kogarah is a bit different being an oval (and I believe they play cricket there, preventing it being converted to a rectangular stadium), but the ultimate aim should be 25k for both stadiums.

p.s. I may as well state this here again: crowds tend to adapt to the size of the ground. If the Dogs went back to Belmore, they wouldn't suddenly have near sellouts most weeks. Ditto for Souths if they went back to Redfern (assuming both grounds could be brought up to NRL standard). The converse is that crowds will tend to go up a bit when mvoing to a larger venue, as the Dogs (and Souths and Tigers) have found out (even if the venue is sh*te in many ways). I've seen someone else suggest this is due to the walk-up crowd factor: those people will stay away if they think the crowd will be anything close to a sellout, whereas they will rock up to the big stadium because they know there'll be plenty of room, and I tend to agree. I doubt it's the only factor though. The Tigers have been rather clever by playing some games at the bigger stadiums, thereby making the games at their traditional grounds more of a special event, meaning more people tend to show up. I've observed the same thing with Dragons crowds. The averages at both grounds are way above what they were pre-merger, partly due to the combined fan base, but also I'm sure due to the reduced number of opportunities to see a game each year. There were also a couple of seasons where we only played 3 or 4 games at Kogarah, resulting in even bigger crowds at the venue.

Ultimately I think the Tigers/Eels model is probably the way to go. Play the blockbuster Sydney matches at the big stadiums (like they did in the old days with the match of the day being played at the SCG), with the added benefit of making the fewer games at the traditional venues more of an event. Obviously this works better for the two merged teams due to having two home grounds.

 

[ouwet]

If Kogarah or 'Gong held 10k more I think we'd get a much better gauge of how the Dragons support is actually represented.

Additionally if they didn't always get FNF that would probably help numbers too.

That's why I have a problem with Suburban grounds! In this day and age to play in a stadium that holds 20K (Most of the time capacity is a little less) is embarrassing! St George supporters can go ON about how it effects there averages but it's there choice to play there... When they did play at ANZ & SFS from memory there averages wasn't to different!!!! They cannot have there cake and eat it too.

 

[Jason Maher]

That's why I have a problem with Suburban grounds! In this day and age to play in a stadium that holds 20K (Most of the time capacity is a little less) is embarrassing! St George supporters can go ON about how it effects there averages but it's there choice to play there... When they did play at ANZ & SFS from memory there averages wasn't to different!!!! They cannot have there cake and eat it too.

I think there needs to be a balance, as I said in my previous post. Splitting games between traditional grounds and the bigger stadiums has the beneficial effect of making both more of an event. For a merged club like the Dragons or Wests, a 5/5/2 or 4/4/4 split is the way to go. For a standalone club, Anything from 10/2, 9/3, or 8/4 is probably the right split.

The problem with Saints in particular is the deep emotional attachment the St. George fans have to Kogarah, and the fact the Illawarra fans got nothing much else out of the joint venture other than our 6 home games, meaning both fan bases are very reluctant to give up any home games. One game every 4 years for the ANZAC game was pulling teeth. There has been noisy resistance both times we've moved our home games away from Kogarah, which undermines any positive effect on our crowd averages (ala Dogs, Tigers, Souths, Parra) playing out of a bigger venue may have.

 

[Timmah]

Your attention seems to be focused on St George though, which is bizarre.

Penrith, Parramatta, Manly and Cronulla (Tigers too if you count the 8 games shared between Leichh & C'town) all play at these sized grounds and I am yet to see you launch an attack on any of those clubs - it seems to be reserved for St George Illawarra - one of the teams who actually does go close to selling out the small grounds on occasion.

 

[Timmah]

Jason Maher has a point, a balance is required because those grounds still hold a place in Rugby League. Tigers' attendances at Leichhardt are evidence of that.

Ideally you would have teams like the Tigers, Dragons, Canterbury, Parra all playing blockbusters at ANZ or SFS, and lesser-drawing teams at those nostalgic/suburban venues. There's no reason why a place like Belmore can't cater for a Dogs/Titans or Dogs/Storm showdown...

 

[ouwet]

Your attention seems to be focused on St George though, which is bizarre.

Penrith, Parramatta, Manly and Cronulla (Tigers too if you count the 8 games shared between Leichh & C'town) all play at these sized grounds and I am yet to see you launch an attack on any of those clubs - it seems to be reserved for St George Illawarra - one of the teams who actually does go close to selling out the small grounds on occasion.

Cause I secretly love St George Illawarra Dragons... It's why i bought Cat A in the St George section this saturday night

Unlike Penrith, Manly, Sharks & Parramatta supporters, St George Steelers supporters WHINGE and BITCH about there averages being Down because of Kogarah YET Bitch when someone suggestions they should move to a ground with a larger capacity and one that's upto standard??? Your love affair Timmah with the Dragons this last few weeks is bordering insane... Snap out of it... They are the devil!

 

[sarahk]

Depends if you want to count the double header, which takes the 'Dogs up to 20k-odd

Yeah but parra had 3 sellouts this year which would have taken our average way up too had they been played at larger stadiums. There's always factors that can be taken into account that would affect a crowd. In saying that , dogs and eels did really well this year considering they had really poor seasons.

 

[Timmah]

Cause I secretly love St George Illawarra Dragons... It's why i bought Cat A in the St George section this saturday night

Unlike Penrith, Manly, Sharks & Parramatta supporters, St George Steelers supporters WHINGE and BITCH about there averages being Down because of Kogarah YET Bitch when someone suggestions they should move to a ground with a larger capacity and one that's upto standard??? Your love affair Timmah with the Dragons this last few weeks is bordering insane... Snap out of it... They are the devil!

Just seems like you're singling Saints out for the sake of it to me, it's pretty boring and repetitive.

FTR, Kogarah is up to standard, it's just not big enough. One of the more modern grounds in the game at the moment actually...

 

[Firey_Dragon]

Cause I secretly love St George Illawarra Dragons... It's why i bought Cat A in the St George section this saturday night

Unlike Penrith, Manly, Sharks & Parramatta supporters, St George Steelers supporters WHINGE and BITCH about there averages being Down because of Kogarah YET Bitch when someone suggestions they should move to a ground with a larger capacity and one that's upto standard??? Your love affair Timmah with the Dragons this last few weeks is bordering insane... Snap out of it... They are the devil!

Our capacity was 22,500 last year, however after the Cronulla game it was significantly reduced due to safety concerns. 18,000 or thereabouts is now considered a "sell-out", when you factor in the difficulty in getting to our grounds on a friday night (for fans of other clubs) where the traffic can be horrendous all the way up to kick off time, it can be quite difficult to reach those numbers consistently. It's even worse when at wollongong.

In any case, it's not really relevant. Crowd numbers very rarely show the true size of a support base. Memberships are more accurate, crowd's are dependent on a number of external factors.

I wouldn't want our ground setup any other way, irrespective of the numbers that show up. The club makes plenty of money to support itself via the leagues club being at a local ground as well. I wouldn't mind 3 or 4 blockbusters at the SFS, but screw ANZ, done that one year and I hope we never do again.

 

[ouwet]

Memberships are more accurate, crowd's are dependent on a number of external factors.

Memberships would IF all NRL teams offered the same package... They don't! I'm surprised the Titans for example even have 5 or 6K members with the crazy prices up there! Teams offer 3 game passes (Which they count) while others don't...

It's common knowledge who the Big 5 Sydney teams are... The rest are just making up the numbers.