Who Stays and Who Goes?

[Trollhammaren]

First to go, and this has to happen right now, is Royce Simmons... We have THE crappest, most pathetic and heartless defence in league and he's responsible for that.

In regards to players, it's obvious we have to sign some actual QUALITY players... There mightn't be any available for next year but the next two years we must get some talent on board...

The players to leave? I don't really care. But I'd be keeping Farah, Laurie, Lawrence, Heighington and probably Galloway and couldn't really care if we lost the rest.

 

[Danieltiger23]

The way i see it & im not sure if any of you die hard Wests Tigers fans are aware that in the 8 years as a joint venture we have never kept a team scoreless. Thats what bugs me the most. No matter how much we score we always give away some amount of points to the opposite team. That clearly says to me that our defense has always been a problem.
Then again id hate to be a bulldogs or cowboys supporter this year. But on another note we have never got the spoon, but also only made the finals once.

 

[Magpies Forever]

First to go, and this has to happen right now, is Royce Simmons... We have THE crappest, most pathetic and heartless defence in league and he's responsible for that.

In regards to players, it's obvious we have to sign some actual QUALITY players... There mightn't be any available for next year but the next two years we must get some talent on board...

The players to leave? I don't really care. But I'd be keeping Farah, Laurie, Lawrence, Heighington and probably Galloway and couldn't really care if we lost the rest.

Yeah, maybe it will make me feel better to think of who should stay:

Farah (only as hooker)
Laurie
Heighington (I'd make him captain)
Payton
Lawrence
Galloway
Halatau
McDonnell
Gallant
Tuiaki
Tagive
Collis
Moltzen

Coming In:
Ellis

Iffy on staying:
Marshall
Morris
Gibbs

When you look at that, it really shows our forwards have been unable to compete and the 5/8- 1/2 still needs remedy. I just dont think Benji is the match winner he once was and his weaknesses have become a liability to the team. He is too easily shut down without a dominant pack. 1/2 back? I hope some of the new blood coming up from juniors or new signings within the Wests and Balmain sides can make the leap up. Morris did not work, Head is gone and Farrar experiment only weakened us overall.

Now for the bitternesss- great coaching, great player signings...........

 

[mean_maori_mean]

The way i see it & im not sure if any of you die hard Wests Tigers fans are aware that in the 8 years as a joint venture we have never kept a team scoreless. Thats what bugs me the most. No matter how much we score we always give away some amount of points to the opposite team. That clearly says to me that our defense has always been a problem.
Then again id hate to be a bulldogs or cowboys supporter this year. But on another note we have never got the spoon, but also only made the finals once.

Thats a simpleton view of things.

But if any of you have played any level of football. You realise that just as much includes completing sets and keeping the other team down their side of the field.

If the tigers stopped giving away cheap penalties and actually had a halfback who had a good tactical kicking game.

 

[madunit]

This talk of a massive cleanout syas to me they are probably going to make a serious bid for Karmichael Hunt.

We'd have to shed a few players to get him.

Tuiaki could be quite useful as a lock I reckon. He'd offer a hell of a lot more when running the ball than Fulton does.

Fulton wouldn't be bad as a utility/benchie type player. His defence is solid, he just doesn't have anything in attack.
I think now that the season is all but done, we should experiment with a few positional changes and player changes.

This is something that could be thrown together, as an example:

1 - Hodgson
2 - Gallant
3 - Lawrence
4 - Morris
5 - Ryan
6 - Marshall
7 - Moltzen
13 - Tuiaki
12 - Heighington
11 - Laurie
10 - Galloway
9 - Farah
8 - Payten

14 - Fulton
15 - Halatau
16 -
17 -

 

[N.C.]

Who here can give me a definition of irony?

We've been bleating for months that the team is going nowhere due to poor recruitment and saying that the coach has a direct responsibility for failing to put the side on notice or get the most out of his players...

But when the coach comes right out and says that the team is going nowhere due to poor recruitment and effectively putting the side on notice (albeit a year too late), instead of thinking "hey maybe this is good news for a change" people are saying "it's not the players, it's Sheens"...

So what is it that you really want, kids? A football team to cheer for, or something to whinge about?

 

[Magpies Forever]

Who here can give me a definition of irony?

We've been bleating for months that the team is going nowhere due to poor recruitment and saying that the coach has a direct responsibility for failing to put the side on notice or get the most out of his players...

But when the coach comes right out and says that the team is going nowhere due to poor recruitment and effectively putting the side on notice (albeit a year too late), instead of thinking "hey maybe this is good news for a change" people are saying "it's not the players, it's Sheens"...

So what is it that you really want, kids? A football team to cheer for, or something to whinge about?

NC- I agree with the sentiment somewhat, however Sheens should have been saying this months ago- when comments of "tap on the shoulder" would actually have meant something to players and spurring them on (or out). Now we have to wait for another failed season with minimal recruitment for next year- so we are left again with Sheens vision for the future. Do you really accept Sheens is not largely to blame for the player situation and their performance or lack of it? His picking of favourites despite form, the games with Head, inability to defend, poor defence of leads (how many tight matches did we win/loose).

As far as I'm concerned he, and Simmons, should fall on their swords and give another a go.

 

[N.C.]

All my criticism of Sheens remains, but I don't doubt his ability as a coach. I agree, this should have happened a long time ago, but I can also see the other side of the coin. Sheens has been working with what he's got, and has obviously had some high hopes for some of our players and has been trying to get the most out of them. Whether he's gone about this in the right way or not I can't say... But what I've said in a previous post is worth mentioning again - Sheens can't help these guys when they are on the field, and we really should have had some more experienced players in the roster before we can expect talented youngsters to really start coming of age. It's a tough gig out there, after all... Most people aren't laying the blame entirely at the foot of Sheens and obviously he's got to work within certain limitations. Most would say it is the combination of Sheens, Simmons, McDonnell and Noyce. Now that Noyce has gone and Sheens is making all the right noises, why are people not prepared to give him some benefit of the doubt, if not at least hold off on passing judgement until we've seen how this is going to be played out?

 

[Magpies Forever]

Agree, its not just Sheens. Lets see what happens. Whichever way things go, I want WT's to be a proud and good team. I dont mind loosing as long as we try and do our best- but that has not been happening lately.

Something is terribly wrong. Everyone involved from players, to coaching staff, recruitment and retention and management have to be under the microscope. Even the goings on with our "home matches" being farmed out left, right and centre must be looked at.

 

[madunit]

Sheens has been working with what he's got

He's been here for a while now, he reaps what he sows now.

 

[N.C.]

Yes, madunit, that's valid... He's obviously made some errors of judgement. I'd be interested to know which players he thinks have not stepped up since their junior days and which he thinks are still on the money... When you look at players who have gone elsewhere and are starting to cement their spots in other teams, perhaps we could suggest that his biggest error of judgement has been to try to create a team full of talented juniors without giving them a few more old heads to feed off? You can talk of Prince all you like, but what we've really been missing are the Skando's and the Elfords. Come to think of it, it puts Moodie into a bit of perspective, even though that was all a bit of a joke that should never have been allowed to happen...

 

[macnaz]

Sheens should be the first to go but the club just renewed his contract and can't afford to pay it off. Simmons needs to go and bring in Blocker. He can't be any worse than Simmons and he will at least bring some pride back into the jumper.

.

THe blocker thing...is that something u have heard or is it a suggestion?? i could go along with it

 

[N.C.]

THe blocker thing...is that something u have heard or is it a suggestion?? i could go along with it

There was a bit of banter about it at the start of the season. I never heard or saw any rumours other than in here though so either it was ultra-ultra inside knowledge stuff or it was pure bollocks. I think I know which, considering how it all turned out...

 

[madunit]

Here's an article I just found;

Noyce to silence Benji union rumours

August 25, 2008 WESTS Tigers chief Steve Noyce is concerned at growing speculation Benji Marshall is considering a shock switch to rugby union.
Noyce also revealed that forward Bronson Harrison has attracted interest from NRL clubs and English Super League clubs.
Speculation about Marshall was rife around ANZ Stadium on Saturday night after Wests Tigers' 48-16 loss to Manly that he could join Sonny Bill Williams, Craig Gower and Mark Gasnier in shifting to rugby union.
Marshall's manager Martin Tauber was unavailable for comment. His client is still under contract for next season.
Tigers coach Tim Sheens, angry at his side's capitulation to the Sea Eagles, said there would be a player clean-out after this season.
Since winning the 2005 premiership, Wests Tigers have missed the finals in the past two years and look certain to bomb out again.
"I have heard the Benji rumours," Noyce admitted.
"He is under contract for next season and I hope Benji stays with Wests Tigers for the rest of his career.
"I know Benji enjoys the club. I haven't spoken to Benji."
Harrison is a Kiwi Test player and has a year left on his deal.
But Wests Tigers officials have discussed the possibility of Harrison leaving early if he can secure a deal at a rival club.
"There has been interest for Bronson from NRL clubs and from overseas," Noyce said.

http://www.foxsports.com.au/story/0,8659,24235869-23214,00.html

 

[ucantseeme]

Sheens is not going anywhere. He has 2 years left on his contract and even if WT get wooden spoons in 2009 & 2010, he will be there till the end. Anyway, it's not like there are a swag of top coaches available.

Steve Folkes, no.
Graham Murray, maybe.
Daniel Anderson, maybe not.
Terry Lamb, welcome back champ, jk.

The players are what needs to change. You can't say the forwards are too small and whosits hasn't lived up to expectations and blame it all on the coach. It worked in 2005 and Sheens has won 4 premierships so he knows what he is doing. His comments at the press conference after the Manly game show he accepts massive changes will be happening.

All well and good provided next year isn't like the last 3 years.

 

[Marshall_magic]

Graham Murray is one I'd take, he takes clubs who are in the sh*t and makes them into top 8 sides. We are in the sh*t.

 

[baddog]

sheens tells people what they want to hear. he's talked tough before but hasn't delivered. when tomorrow's team is announced you'll see how fair dinkum he is. all the usual suspects will be there again. jmo will switch to half to cover farah and teo will come in.

deckchairs on the titanic anyone? although I suppose he didn't bring teo back, he couldn't bring the first regular he's dropped in at least three years back after one week. at least predator gets a start.

 

[MacDougall]

Ok so is Brett Hodgsons salary a straight swap for Ellis? I would imagine surely we wouldn't be paying an NRL untested backrower (something we have a million of) our captain's salary. So we should have funds there, if we can offload Harrison as Noyce seems to be doing and another player or ten, we should be able to get some good signings next season for 2010. I'd cancel 09 already and look forward to then. If we can get a Hunt or somebody along those lines then other players would want to come to the club with Hunt, Marshall and Farah.

 

[The Gambler]

I doubt Ellis would come to Australia from the UK for much less than he was on already. I reckon he would be on $260,000+ which would be approaching what Hodgo was on.

 

[madunit]

We should thow an offer at Luke Douglas.

Good young prop who is pretty good now who is only going to get better.