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Why 2009 Should Be Brian Smith's Final Knights Season

Karmawave

Bench
Messages
4,950
Brian Smith has done a good job in coming to a club and making a team competitive that is trying to move forward past the Andrew Johns era. However to suggest he deserves an extension is narrow minded, and fraught with danger.

Since Brian Smith has been in charge of the club, the drop off in success of our junior teams from 16's to NSW Cup has been remarkable. For a team that has always relied on the depth and quality of our juniors, Smiths penchant for buying rejects or what he perceives as a unknown gem cheaply from another club, is only having a detrimental affect on the junior development of the Newcastle Knights.

It is imperative that the next Johns, Gidley or Chief is coming through the ranks of our huge junior base, and developed the same way they have been in the past.

Brian Smith is not the man, does not have the background, or personality, to take an entire club under his wing and build future stars from the age of 16.

Smith has been reluctant in the past to play genuine superstars in the making such as Jarryd Hayne and even our own Fijian flyer Uate. Instead wanting to use players who try hard. Or have a red hot go. Stop gap players who are short term solutions.

That is fair enough to some extent, but that kind of attitude leads to the interest in players such as David Simmons from Cronulla.

Or George Ndaira.

Newcastle needs icon players to promote the brand to this city.

Brian Smith with all his coaching skill is not a good option for the brand of the Newcastle Knights.

His methods of taking rejects from other clubs have had some success, but are not proven to win competitions.

What wins competitions is nurturing juniors and keeping the group together long term.

And that, is the Newcastle way.

Brian Smith, you've done a decent job, but the reality shows that in 2 seasons you have not made the Top 8, have miraculously avoided the wooden spoon in 2007, and are no guarantee of making the Top 8 in 2009, regardless of the optimism that is amongst the fans.

There is as much chance of player fallout with the coach similar to what occurred in 2007 as there is the Knights making the Top 8 in 2009.

Is Smith what we need at the Knights?

If its about rebuilding, you don't rebuild from outside. You rebuild from within. And Smith is not the coach to do that.

Keith Onslow is a decent starting point as development officer, but not the final solution.

The Knights need to give the reins to a young, club orientated coach, in the mould of Ricky Stuart or John Cartwright.

Guys who take as much interest at what is happening at the ground level, as they do with the first grade team.

Given the Knights biggest asset is the size and quality of our juniors, it would be a mistake to leave this area underperforming for longer than it has under Smith.

Brian Smith, thank you for your time, but unless you win the competition in 2009, its been nice having you around, but its time for a new , vibrant coach to take over this club.

For the good of the Newcastle Knights.
 

Karmawave

Bench
Messages
4,950
Yeah, maybe Onslow's best days were past him in the early - mid 90's when he was orchestrating the Newcastle junior system that probably still goes down as one of the best junior crops to ever play rugby league.

I guess alot comes down to how much control Onslow has himself as opposed to input or control he has from others ( like Smith )

Either way Brian Smith - its time to go.
 

roopy

Referee
Messages
27,980
Onslow sucks - but he has to be better than whoever signed guys like Paulson, Tovo, Iosefo, and half a dozen i've blotted from my memory for NYC last year.
He at least says he is going to give local guys every chance.
 
Messages
16,034
The days of relying on Juniors is well and truly past.... However I am not sure Smiths love of rejects is either....
 

Karmawave

Bench
Messages
4,950
On field and off-field success in Newcastle relies on having big name identity players that have been developed from our local junior system and turned into stars.

Add that to the willingness to go after a quality big name ( Ben Kennedy ) to add to our own juniors, and that leads to on field and off field success.

Brian Smith is not the person to do it. And a look at his history from the St George days and the make up of his teams, shows it.
 

roopy

Referee
Messages
27,980
You will never get a steady stream of big name players coming to Newcastle.
We would be the second least desirable location for a player to go after Canberra.
Ben Kennedy was a one off.
We either have to bring stars through from the juniors or live without stars.
 

Karmawave

Bench
Messages
4,950
Money talks though Roopy.

The lack of any big name signings in recent years has more to do with the reluctance of the Knights to throw competitive offers at big names, than it has to do with Newcastle not being an appealing option to play at and live in.

I agree, it should be juniors first, develop our own stars, but if a once in a generation talent comes along and we are cashed up enough to spend on them - Smiths reluctance to do so is a problem. I don't believe the Knights will get a 'steady stream ' of big name players, and I wouldn't like to see that anyway - but like BK, go for the biggest names if they are available. Not with some offending offer that is not even in the ballpark, but make a splash and go hard after a big name talent - just one.

Lets face it, weigh up the names and salaries that have gone from our books in the last 2 seasons alongside the names / salaries of those who are set to replace them.

Its not a good look.
 

keeney

First Grade
Messages
6,640
Wasn't Smith renowned for his top down management that resulted in Parramatta winning the NSW Cup (whatever it was called, the award for most success across all grades) for 7 years in a row?
 

macavity

Referee
Messages
20,685
Club Championship you are thinking of mate

and yes, he was...

Smith has some very interesting and revolutionary recruitment/retention ideas he wants to put into place in the next few seasons - it will be spectacular either way - either a spectacular success or a spectacular failure....
 

Karmawave

Bench
Messages
4,950
Wasn't Smith renowned for his top down management that resulted in Parramatta winning the NSW Cup (whatever it was called, the award for most success across all grades) for 7 years in a row?


Not to me he wasn't.

Parramatta has a huge junior base and have always been successful in juniors, with or without Brian Smith.

It is one thing developing gun juniors, and another being capable to turn those juniors into first grade stars that win competitions.

Smith has shown he was incapable of that. As a personnel man, he had issues with Jamie Lyon, Tim Smith, and Jarryd Hayne among others.
 
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keeney

First Grade
Messages
6,640
Tim Smith the bipolar basketcase? Jarryd Hayne, the player whose lack of respect was a factor in Hages' resignation?

I'm not saying Smith is a great relater to anyone, his man management skills do leave a lot to be desired, however, it wasn't what preceded his downfall at Parra. He simply stayed for too long. What he has proved himself capableof is building a club from the bottom up, somethign he has done admirably in the past, and is continuing to do here. We may lose some players, and sign some rubbish, but he will leave us in a competitive position, as he has doen consistently with worse teams than ours across the years.
 

antonius

Coach
Messages
10,104
On field and off-field success in Newcastle relies on having big name identity players that have been developed from our local junior system and turned into stars.

Add that to the willingness to go after a quality big name ( Ben Kennedy ) to add to our own juniors, and that leads to on field and off field success.

Brian Smith is not the person to do it. And a look at his history from the St George days and the make up of his teams, shows it.
Dead right there. While ever Smith is here we will get more of what we've seen last year. Newcastle people want home grown players that they can relate to, ATM we look like a 2nd NZ team. I'm waiting to see what next year brings, but I tend to go along with Karmas view ATM.
 

Jono078

Referee
Messages
21,202
Welcome back Karma, long time no see :p

I can't really agree just yet.

You sound like you want what we had 4 years ago, and that was ONLY relying on our juniors and not buying in players, we saw how far that got us? It's a bit of catch 22, you rely heavily on juniors or you can buy players, obviously there is nothing better than seeing a local come through the ranks to become a superstar but it doesn't happen all that often really.

If he doesnt win the premiership next year he should go? Why?

By the sounds of things as well, the under 20s are going really hard this pre season. Looks like last year they just werent organized enough for that comp.
 

Karmawave

Bench
Messages
4,950
Among others...


Hayne wasn't referring to his attitude. It was referring to the fact Smith didn't play him while he was there and a few weeks later when Taylor takes over, he ends up playing for Australia.

I see similarities with him and Uate for one.
 

Yosh

Coach
Messages
12,012
Among others...


Hayne wasn't referring to his attitude. It was referring to the fact Smith didn't play him while he was there and a few weeks later when Taylor takes over, he ends up playing for Australia.

I see similarities with him and Uate for one.


Then Hages comes along and he is playing for FIJI :crazy:

Anyways I like this BSmith man... I also swear Karmawave is Clint Newton... Anyways I think BSmith should get an extention for

one more year and see how we go from there. 09 I see a definately positive season and by the time its 2010 and we are not

fighting it out in the GF then drop him. I mean he is a giant step up from Hages, and is there anyone really available that is as a giant

step up from BSmith?
 

Jobdog

Live Update Team
Messages
25,696
I am genuinely torn in this particular aspect. And as Jono said, long time no see Karma ;-)

However, I'm not going to make it into a "Karma vs JD" thread, because surprisingly, I do agree with most sentiments already shared in here. The whole "people of Newcastle can't relate to the team" issue is probably the main factor as to why I kind of have a foot in both camps. On one hand, Brian has done a fabulous job, sure he narrowly avoided the spoon in '07, but when we really look at it, that was hardly all his fault. He took over a club that Mr Hagan had successfully f**ked up in the years prior.

Last year was a marked improvement from the side, anyone can see that. The main reason we missed out on the semis was because our inexperienced FG side couldn't quite close out those close games. They do that next year and even win half of the ones they lost this year, they're pushing for a top four spot and all of a sudden Brian is a fabulous coach.

All in all, I think he probably should get an extension, but someone needs to tell him that some of these juniors we've got running around in other grades need to be kept at all costs - Uate for one.
 

aqua_duck

Coach
Messages
18,648
Among others...


Hayne wasn't referring to his attitude. It was referring to the fact Smith didn't play him while he was there and a few weeks later when Taylor takes over, he ends up playing for Australia.

I see similarities with him and Uate for one.
People forget in 2006 when Hayne made his debut he was still eligible for SG Ball, and was already fast tracked to premier league, infact he played in the premier league GF as a 17 year old, the bloke was barely 18 years old and it wasn't like it was going to be make or break for him. I think Uate should've been played more but people on here will still agree his defence simply isn't up to 1st grade atm. As for our juniors, sure the results from a team stand point were disappointing in SG Ball and NYC (Mats did OK), but there are quite a few players from SG Ball and NYC who stilled showed 1st grade potential, and I dare say our NYC team next season (with the right coaching) will be pretty good, like I've said in a previous post you can't expect an amazing crop of juniors every year, we were blessed to have players like Mullen, Walsh, Pato, Aku, who were all born in 1987, we just didn't seem to have anyone born in 1988 who were as good. However I get very excited thinking about the team we're going to be fielding next year in Toyota cup.
 
Messages
3,813
Knights juniors at present are generally not up to the task. I think Smithy re-signing is more than half way complete though. Kearney is a good option but he is yet to remove himself from the Bronco mentorship of both Bellamy and Bennett. Hard to know if he is worth a pinch of s### as a coach due to having two geniuses as his mentors. I agree that Smith's recruitment has been underwhelming overall but we did get De Gois so it isn't all doom and gloom.
 

aqua_duck

Coach
Messages
18,648
I still think Ndaira will carve up next year, he's the modern day type hooker, lightning out of dummy half, has a kicking game and very clever. Don't forget no one really rated de gois before 2008, 2009 could be Ndaira's turn
 

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