Why are Super League crowds still crap.

[WireMan]

I'm not trolling mate. I'm saying that League suffers from the success of football in England. You hit the nail on the head when you mention the crowd numbers that follow football and not league.

For a town of 200,000 with no football team of it's own, crowds of 11,000 could easily be improved upon. I never realised Warrington was quite that big.

But the truth is, if a town has a successful football team in England it's league team is going to suffer. We need to look to areas like Warrington and make them League Towns if the game is going to grow.

Sorry the trolling thing was at the thread starter not you.

Problem with the North west teams is that it really is a football area. The reason places like Warrngton have got so big is that its an overflow for Liverpool and Manchester. Same with all the towns in the area. There are whole areas that are first generation Warringtonians who really couldn't give a stuff about Rugby. The place we need to to focus and clubs try to is in schools etc. Problem is that all you get on telly all weekend is Football.

The places to expand would be Cornwall, Cumbria and Scotland. However we cannot expand to fast. Maybe the time after the next licenses. 5 or 8 years in the future.

 

[Teddyboy]

The Newcastle "soccer" side still pull gates of 40,000 plus even in 2nd division.

4 home games this year:

vs Reading - 36,994
vs Sheff Wed - 43,904
vs Leicester - 38,813
vs Plymouth - 42,898

And they are 2nd after 8 games. Bad example madunit, probably one of the most dedicated sets of fans in English football

I would change that to blinded fanatics.

 

[Pablo-13]

The places to expand would be Cornwall, Cumbria and Scotland. However we cannot expand to fast. Maybe the time after the next licenses. 5 or 8 years in the future.

Scotland is a good choice because not only could it open up a market of 5 million, it helps international RL.

Grimsby, that's another town that could be targeted as a league town.

Their football team is utter sh*te and they've got f**k all else.

Redcar in the North East is another.

Not sure whether by 'league town' you mean a place where a lot of RL is played or where a semi or fully professional team is based.

If pro-teams:

Redcar? It's a town of 36000! Even smaller than Bridgend but without the benefit of bringing pro-league to a country. It is close to Middlesborough, you might as well set up closer to the larger population in the first place.

The Midlands and the south (and Scotland and Ireland when realistic) are the places to target. Adding semi-pro teams in Redcar and Grimsby is not going to make the media see RL as worthy of more coverage, even if there was enough potential money there to make it successful.

If a place to to develop grass roots RL:

Good idea. Not only would the pull of other sports be less strong but rugby league in the UK needs to widen its gene-pool so we have more natural athletes coming though for the national team.

 

[deluded pom?]

The Newcastle "soccer" side still pull gates of 40,000 plus even in 2nd division.

4 home games this year:

vs Reading - 36,994
vs Sheff Wed - 43,904
vs Leicester - 38,813
vs Plymouth - 42,898

And they are 2nd after 8 games. Bad example madunit, probably one of the most dedicated sets of fans in English football

Although great by Championship standards a fair percentage of Newcastle's "revered super loyal fans" jumped ship after relegation and a shaky start to the season. A few thousand have returned with some winning football. Don't forget they were drawing 52,000 in the Premiership. Newcastle fans are just the same as any other team's fans. They drift away when the team's losing and return when they are winning. The "super loyal Geordie fan" is a myth.

 

[Teddyboy]

I think that Super League should take a few guest games down to Cornwall,Plymouth and Exeter.

 

[Lambretta]

Scotland is a good choice because not only could it open up a market of 5 million, it helps international RL.

Not sure whether by 'league town' you mean a place where a lot of RL is played or where a semi or fully professional team is based.

By league towns, I mean towns where League is played in schools and the kids grow up with the sport.

No need to have a team based in the town, but having a regional link is important. ie kids playing in Grimsby, Cleethorpes, Lincoln or Sc.unthorpe would have a path to development in the Hull sides etc.

It's a shame that Sheffield and Gateshead didn't work as League franchises in Super League as a team for the North East and a team in another large City, such as Sheffield, were good ideas.

The area from Middlesborough to Newcastle is basically a vast built up area encapsulating Sunderland, Hartlepool, Darlington and Durham. Surely there is room for League in one of those towns even with footballs dominance.

 

[madunit]

The Newcastle "soccer" side still pull gates of 40,000 plus even in 2nd division.

4 home games this year:

vs Reading - 36,994
vs Sheff Wed - 43,904
vs Leicester - 38,813
vs Plymouth - 42,898

And they are 2nd after 8 games. Bad example madunit, probably one of the most dedicated sets of fans in English football

I said might.

I didn't state it was an example.

learn to read ffs.

 

[Evil Homer]

By league towns, I mean towns where League is played in schools and the kids grow up with the sport.

No need to have a team based in the town, but having a regional link is important. ie kids playing in Grimsby, Cleethorpes, Lincoln or Sc.unthorpe would have a path to development in the Hull sides etc.

It's a shame that Sheffield and Gateshead didn't work as League franchises in Super League as a team for the North East and a team in another large City, such as Sheffield, were good ideas.

The area from Middlesborough to Newcastle is basically a vast built up area encapsulating Sunderland, Hartlepool, Darlington and Durham. Surely there is room for League in one of those towns even with footballs dominance.

Kids do play in Scun.thorpe and Lincoln, both towns have reasonable Conference clubs. Grimsby also has a club who I think do some youth development. We can't just take RL to a place and decide it is now a 'league town' though. In terms of developing infrastructure and community work, Sheffield and Gateshead have done a lot more for the game outside of Super League than they did while they were in it.

 

[Pablo-13]

Kids do play in Scun.thorpe and Lincoln, both towns have reasonable Conference clubs. Grimsby also has a club who I think do some youth development. We can't just take RL to a place and decide it is now a 'league town' though. In terms of developing infrastructure and community work, Sheffield and Gateshead have done a lot more for the game outside of Super League than they did while they were in it.

True, you need people living there to get behind it and you need enough of them so that it isn't a one person operation that will cease as soon as that person has had enough.

There was a good article in Rugby League World in October (issue 342, p 42-3) about a new junior club called Medway Dragons. They are based in Gillingham, Kent which has a population of 99k. In the local area the main sporting side is Gillingham FC in League 1 (so third tier) and with average crowds of 6k.

The article said this club started after a few of the kids asked their parents if they could play it. The first match was in March 2008 and they now have 7 teams (under 7, 9, 11, 12, 14, 16, 18s), each with several adults looking after them as coach, assistant coach and manager. They have achieved the Clubmark Gold status. They hope to increase the number of sides next year and to field an open age side in the next few years. The Dragons are now considering approaching local rugby union to offer help in their coaches becoming qualified rugby league coaches.

Things can really take off in a short period of time with dedicated people. Events like the Champion Schools could be very useful in providing an experience of league to kids who then want to continue playing it. We need to have development officers ready to help make a clubs sustainable when one is created.

 

[WireMan]

Thing is though there are areas where the game is played in schools etc. Widnes, Leigh, Halifax, Featherstone, Barrow, Whitehaven etc.

We don't need to take Rugby to these places, there is an argument that says we should bring it back to these places. Why develop the game in Devon when it needs help in Cumbria?

I'm not saying what is right or wrong, just offering a different point of view.

I like the idea of taking guest games to places. Like the "magic" weekends but on a smaller scale. Maybe places like Gilligham (from Pablo's post) could invite two teams down (Quins pos?). Celtic are taking a game to Wrexham. Salford could play Wakefield in Sheffield or Hull KR vs Saints at Gateshead, Wigan vs Bradford at Blackpool, Wire vs Quins at Chester.

 

[Evil Homer]

There are already professional clubs in those towns though? This thread is about expanding the game.

 

[WireMan]

There are already professional clubs in those towns though? This thread is about expanding the game.

There is two types of expanding though. One is expanding child participation etc. which can be done at local level easily enough. The other is expanding top level teams. None of the places i mentioned have a top level team.

If you want to just expand into local schools then there is no need for the Celtic Crusaders to be in super league. They are in because a top level team increases interest in the wider community. Therefore expanding into Cumbria etc. will increase interest there.

 

[Evil Homer]

Yeah, but we can't have Super League teams in every town. Those places have professional teams, and they are not large towns so surely that is enough?

 

[Teddyboy]

Rugby League has been trying for years in Wales.
Just can not but my finger on it why Rugby League fails in the UK yet 24000 will pack out a new Welford Road for Leicester Tigers game and there are no tries scored.

f**king madness.

 

[Lambretta]

Kids do play in Scun.thorpe and Lincoln, both towns have reasonable Conference clubs. Grimsby also has a club who I think do some youth development. We can't just take RL to a place and decide it is now a 'league town' though. In terms of developing infrastructure and community work, Sheffield and Gateshead have done a lot more for the game outside of Super League than they did while they were in it.

This is very positive news indeed. Lincolnshire should be playing league and the Rugby League board in the UK should be encouraging schools to teach the sport to kids.

Touch, or tag, are ideal versions of league that can be played in schools and that also keeps the "I dont want my kids playing full contact sports" parents happy to boot. Something Union cant do.

The Midlands should be the next area that is targeted as a growth area.
Staffordshire (West) & Nottinghamshire (Central) would fill in the areas South of the current Lancashire, Yorkshire & Cheshire set and would also link in nicely with Lincolnshire in the East.

With digital television and the plethora of free to air television stations that there are or will be - surely a space can be found to broadcast Rugby League on free to air television right across the Country?

Even if it means that Sky sell the rights back to the BBC for matches that have previously aired the week or two before - surely that would be a step towards gaining greater coverage of League?

 

[taste2taste]

Rugby League has been trying for years in Wales.
Just can not but my finger on it why Rugby League fails in the UK yet 24000 will pack out a new Welford Road for Leicester Tigers game and there are no tries scored.

f**king madness.

Thats the real head scratcher, this also happens in NZ.

League has to be sold better and be far more aggressive in their advertising, at the moment Union fans see it as a watered down, softer version of union. Where as League fans see Union as a slower, boring version of League. The speed, skills and non stop action of League needs to be sold to Union fans.

Union got a ton of press here in Australia when they poached our top players (Sailor, Taquiri, Rogers)..maybe taking a few top union players might help. Also a game of Union V League would be a good way for people to be introduced to league, although this will never happen, if memory serves me correctly Wigan beat Bath 77-0 last time. If its any consolation union is dying a slow and painful death here in Australia, The crowds are leaving in droves and it barley rates on the TV any more, the average person in the street wouldnt be able to name a single player for the Wallabies... i certainly cant. The irony is union spent millions to take our players, so people tuned in to the games, got bored and switched back to league, the players also switched back to league once they had fattened their pockets and are now great for the game, Sailor generates more press then any advertising campaign could ever do...every one loves Big Dell.
Anyway im just jibbering now, id better log off.

 

[Lambretta]

Rugby League has been trying for years in Wales.
Just can not but my finger on it why Rugby League fails in the UK yet 24000 will pack out a new Welford Road for Leicester Tigers game and there are no tries scored.

f**king madness.

Since the Premier League became all about money, a large section of people in the UK have become very anti football in large parts of the Country. Bling laden prima donnas is how many people view footballers. The players live in Mansions, drive Ferraris, earn millions of pounds every year and they have little in common with the average man who is grafting hard and paying massive amounts of money to go to Premier League games.

Many people have walked away from football and in areas outside of the North West, many people have turned towards Rugby Union. Don't forget these are football fans, people who are used to watching nil nil draws in football, so games without tries being scored would not be unusual. What they want to see is hard grafting men, going at each other in a tough manly way.

Many of these people could easily become League converts if they knew more about the game - but they've grown up with Union and they're used to Union.

When I was last back in England I went to Kettering, Woburn and Northampton and saw quite a few Union club shirts. Northampton and Leicester were the most common.

Without any coverage in the press, or games on tv or any of them getting any sort of exposure to league at any time during their lives, we're pushing sh*t up hill. Large parts of England are ripe for the expansion of league and it's happening slowly - but as with all things, you need a certain level of saturation before the sport can move to the next level.

 

[deluded pom?]

Even if it means that Sky sell the rights back to the BBC for matches that have previously aired the week or two before - surely that would be a step towards gaining greater coverage of League?

I wouldn't let the BBC anywhere near rugby league if I had my way. They treat it as a filler. Always have, always will. Channel 5 like to show American sports but they tend to broadcast them live at times that are useless to non nightshift workers. I'd be tempted to offer ITV some free coverage of Championship games with a view to them paying for the privilege later depending on viewing figures and advertising revenue generated. ITV are currently showing GP games on one of their subsiduary channels. I'm sure Widnes v Halifax would be far more entertaning than Leicester v Northampton could ever be.

 

[deluded pom?]

Union got a ton of press here in Australia when they poached our top players (Sailor, Taquiri, Rogers)..maybe taking a few top union players might help. Also a game of Union V League would be a good way for people to be introduced to league, although this will never happen, if memory serves me correctly Wigan beat Bath 77-0 last time.

The problem there is that the pro union media would report any signing of a union player by a league club as a sure sign that rugby league is dying and cannot produce it's own players whereas when union sign ageing league players for the England team the desperation shown is brushed under the carpet and ignored. The Wigan v Bath games did very little for league's profile in the UK except highlight the skills difference to the union clubs. It meant very little to the average man in the street who was still thanking the EPL teams for mugging him of his hard earned.

 

[deluded pom?]

Since the Premier League became all about money, a large section of people in the UK have become very anti football in large parts of the Country. Bling laden prima donnas is how many people view footballers. The players live in Mansions, drive Ferraris, earn millions of pounds every year and they have little in common with the average man who is grafting hard and paying massive amounts of money to go to Premier League games.

Many people have walked away from football and in areas outside of the North West, many people have turned towards Rugby Union. Don't forget these are football fans, people who are used to watching nil nil draws in football, so games without tries being scored would not be unusual. What they want to see is hard grafting men, going at each other in a tough manly way.

Many of these people could easily become League converts if they knew more about the game - but they've grown up with Union and they're used to Union.

To an extent you're right but for every football fan who turns his back on the mercenary attitude of the game ther's a couple of more mugs waiting to part with their cash. The media have spun the Premier league for all it's worth and the average pleb believes all that they read about it.