What's new
The Front Row Forums

Register a free account today to become a member of the world's largest Rugby League discussion forum! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Why are Super League crowds still crap.

deluded pom?

Coach
Messages
10,897
Yeah but most people worldwide who sadly follow the EPL are thick because the EPL hasn't really helped the english international team.
People will believe anything like McDonalds is better then Tapa's in Spain etc.


That's the point I'm trying to make Teddy. Tell people the same thing enough times and a lot of them will start to believe you. England have qualified for the football WC comfortably but we'll see what happens when they meet some class teams.
 

deluded pom?

Coach
Messages
10,897
but added that the English are used to low scoring because of the football.


High scoring doesn't necessarily mean exciting games. Basketball is a high scoring games but bores me to tears. Conversely I can watch a low scoring football or rugby league match and enjoy it far more. Having said that I can also see low scoring football matches that have me asleep after twenty minutes.
 

Teddyboy

First Grade
Messages
6,573
Basically in popularity it's like this;

Soccer in England = NRL+AFL combined in Australia
Super League in England = A-League in Australia

That's pretty f**ked up tbh. It also explains why there are so many negative attitudes from UK RL fans.

No way is Super League like the A-League as Super League gets much better tv ratings then premiership/HEC Rugby Union on paytv with SKY.
Plus there be a packed out crowd of 75000 for the Super League Grand Final at Old Trafford.
 

VictoryFC

Bench
Messages
3,786
Read the story of the Emperor's new clothes. Kids grow up being told by all and sundry what a fantastic product the EPL is. This is the EPL that will be chock full of foreign talent because English players are either too greedy or just not good enough. Are you trying to tell me that kids aren't swayed by the media?

I hope they languish in the lower reaches for the rest of eternity. My loathing of Leeds United is second only to that of Hull KR but at least the Dobbins play the right game.
;-)

So kids in Sydney aren't swayed towards NRL by the media? Kids in Melbourne aren't swayed towards AFL either? Kids in New York like baseball and gridiron because they're much better sports? All relative. And its a bit naive to blame the English media.

Yeah but most people worldwide who sadly follow the EPL are thick because the EPL hasn't really helped the english international team.
People will believe anything like McDonalds is better then Tapa's in Spain etc.

England national football team is one of the best in the world currently. Their starting 11 are stars in their teams, who happen to be among the top 15 clubs in the world. All they've needed is a decent structure and management; not less foreigners.

Basically in popularity it's like this;

Soccer in England = NRL+AFL combined in Australia
Super League in England = A-League in Australia

That's pretty f**ked up tbh. It also explains why there are so many negative attitudes from UK RL fans.

Sort of right. As sad as it is, A-League gets better media coverage than RL in UK. Go to the Sun, Telegraph, Guardian, Times...where is the rugby league coverage? Nowhere. The Australia media is much better in that respect as its given the A-League what it deserves, nothing less nothing more. Agree on ratings etc, which makes the situation even more sad.
 

deluded pom?

Coach
Messages
10,897
And its a bit naive to blame the English media.


Not when 90% of sports coverage in the English tabloid newspapers is football or there are several dedicated terrestrial tv programmes that revolve around football yet next to none for rugby league. Yes rugby league sold it's soul to the satellite devil but if it hadn't it would have died on it's arse.
 

Teddyboy

First Grade
Messages
6,573
Not when 90% of sports coverage in the English tabloid newspapers is football or there are several dedicated terrestrial tv programmes that revolve around football yet next to none for rugby league. Yes rugby league sold it's soul to the satellite devil but if it hadn't it would have died on it's arse.
In truth the layout of the rather new comps of the Guniness premiership and the Heineken Cup should really be Rugby League and judging by the amount of Touch and Tag Rugby going on in England,Ireland,Wales and Scotland it's all due to League.

The mind still boggles.
 

VictoryFC

Bench
Messages
3,786
Not when 90% of sports coverage in the English tabloid newspapers is football or there are several dedicated terrestrial tv programmes that revolve around football yet next to none for rugby league. Yes rugby league sold it's soul to the satellite devil but if it hadn't it would have died on it's arse.

Fair enough, but thats what I'm saying. Every country has its preferences. 90% of sport coverage in Sydney is NRL, 90% in Melbourne is AFL. No difference really
 

deluded pom?

Coach
Messages
10,897
Fair enough, but thats what I'm saying. Every country has its preferences. 90% of sport coverage in Sydney is NRL, 90% in Melbourne is AFL. No difference really


Exactly. It's like asking why other sports don't make much of a dent in the psyche of people living in Sydney or those in Melbourne. Rugby league in the UK has had to battle dirty tactics from union for over a hundred years while football quietly took over the whole country finally becoming the juggernaut they now are, not just in the UK but globally. League in the Sydney/Brisbane area was lucky (for want of a better word) in that it was the most popular code of football virtually from day one. The game in Australia is now reaping the rewards of those efforts a hundred years ago. Damn that Snodgrass ;-)
 

Teddyboy

First Grade
Messages
6,573
Exactly. It's like asking why other sports don't make much of a dent in the psyche of people living in Sydney or those in Melbourne. Rugby league in the UK has had to battle dirty tactics from union for over a hundred years while football quietly took over the whole country finally becoming the juggernaut they now are, not just in the UK but globally. League in the Sydney/Brisbane area was lucky (for want of a better word) in that it was the most popular code of football virtually from day one. The game in Australia is now reaping the rewards of those efforts a hundred years ago. Damn that Snodgrass ;-)

I would like to go back in time and shot every member of the RFU in 1895 dead.
 

RedVee

First Grade
Messages
7,154
Fair enough, but thats what I'm saying. Every country has its preferences. 90% of sport coverage in Sydney is NRL, 90% in Melbourne is AFL. No difference really

Except that on the networked shows like SportsTonight etc, we have to sit through the AFL dross before the league comes on...... every night. :x
 

VictoryFC

Bench
Messages
3,786
Except that on the networked shows like SportsTonight etc, we have to sit through the AFL dross before the league comes on...... every night. :x

Yeah thats a weird one. In fact, Australia is probably the only country in the world where their cities are so split that they need to rearrange their sports reports. In the UK, soccer will be first country wide, US it will be dependent on whats in season (although NFL and MLB take first spot when they're on. But, I guess it comes down to ratings. News in Melbourne and Sydney is done by different teams. I think if sports tonight was pulling those numbers, C10 would almost have to differentiate their coverage of Sports Tonight to suit the different markets. I don't think it makes financial sense for Ten as ratings probably don't warrant that kind of move. It just so happens that Ten have a stake in AFL. Its unfair, but I guess we shouldn't be surprised.
 

WireMan

Bench
Messages
4,479
I'm suprised that couple put rugby third. I'd of put cricket there myself. Thats going of the sports news on telly or in the papers.

I wouldn't say we are used to low scores because of football. We just don't mind it so much, a good defence is as pleasing as a good attack.

I think rugby league and football are very similar with regards to who watches it. This makes it harder for league to make an impact. In the cities where the money and media is are footballing centres. Rugby was played by the small towns around them.
 

RedVee

First Grade
Messages
7,154
I'm suprised that couple put rugby third. I'd of put cricket there myself. Thats going of the sports news on telly or in the papers.

I wouldn't say we are used to low scores because of football. We just don't mind it so much, a good defence is as pleasing as a good attack.

I think rugby league and football are very similar with regards to who watches it. This makes it harder for league to make an impact. In the cities where the money and media is are footballing centres. Rugby was played by the small towns around them.

Yes maybe, a low number of tries is what they meant... leading to scoring mainly via goals. Anyway, I guess they were trying to explain to someone (me) that has always lived in the greater Sydney region - Rugby League territory and not familiar with London (and further south) sporting landscape nuances.
 

Lambretta

First Grade
Messages
8,689
How many times are we going to hear this? The working class who built the game have walked away...as far as I can tell, the clubs are doing just fine. Not only that, but people seem to forget that those magical times before Sky took over yielded attendances that were much lower than today's averages. You don't just walk away from a club/sport you've been following for X years. Maybe they can't afford to go every game anymore, but they're still following the team, and another sport just isn't going to fill that void. You only have to ask yourself if you'd stop following League if you couldn't afford to go to games tomorrow (answer: I doubt it)

Mate, I'm talking from experience. Where I grew up in England, there are loads of people that used to follow football but who now go and watch Rugby Union instead. For them, another sport HAS filled the void.

Football is still the King - but there are alot of people that have stopped watching because the game doesnt resonate with them any more.

But, that said, there's also tens of thousands more who now go to games because the stadiums are safe and pleasant.

I'm not attacking football (I think football is f**king brilliant at times and I'm a big fan) but League should be doing a better job of appealing to the man who thinks football is for overpaid prima donnas.

If league could manage that, it really could grow some.
 

DINGb@T

Juniors
Messages
834
Also enjoying this thread. Thanks to all the Poms contributing :)

So how about the momentum of League then? From what I gathered there was steady growth in things like junior participation, crowds, media coverage etc. Small victories here and there without there being anything too spectacular. Is there the buzz amongst supporters that they're part of something that's healthy and growing and on the up? (That's the impression I get from media articles on things like the Challenge Cup etc)

I know in some articles they refer to League towns, places like Hull (recent comment on how the soccer team played like they were under the six tackle rule 'not surprising considering they're from a rugby league town' kinda thing) but what does that mean in England? I know here in Australia a League town can probably be marked by how excited everyone gets if their team is doing well going into the finals. The town/city is decked out in the teams colours by fans of the game, mayors and councillors start taking bets amongst each other and the local papers start doing feature articles on their favourite players etc. Does any of this happen in the heartlands up in England? I know there's only been relatively few teams make it to the grand final up there but if a team like Hull FC get to the GF would you see the town all decked out in bunting etc or would it just be noted at the club or something? (Catalans Cup appearance is the obvious one I can think of)
 

DINGb@T

Juniors
Messages
834
And as for the crowds falling since the advent of Superleague- the average has grown for something like 7 years in a row, year on year. In numbers the growth isn't huge but percentage wise its fairly impressive. slstats.org if you want to check the numbers yourself
 

St.John

Juniors
Messages
263
So how about the momentum of League then? From what I gathered there was steady growth in things like junior participation, crowds, media coverage etc.

We've achieved critical mass, in my opinion. It was touch and go after the disaster of the 2000 World Cup, but the improvement since then has been stellar.

We are no longer a sport confined to the traditional heartlands, there are teams almost everywhere in the country - importantly, this includes universities. I think basically all universities now have a RL team many have more than one and a women's team. This includes Oxford and Cambridge, who play a televised match every year. Oxford offered a RL scholarship, which would have been entirely unbelievable only a few short years ago.

There are regular competitions in Ireland, Scotland and Wales (including universities). There always were, to some extent, but it seems that development is being taken very seriously now and some funding is being allocated accordingly.

Youth development at the pro clubs is now a consideration in the franchising system, and we're starting to see lots of players coming through from the youth systems.

My own club, St. Helens, was never really a powerhouse of the junior game in the manner of Wigan or Leeds, but we have quite a few kids filtering into the 1st team who have genuine potential. The likes of Dixon, Wheeler and Eastmond are electric, and all the clubs are starting to produce players in positions where we have been weak at international level in the past few years; the halves and backs.

The pro clubs are taking their facilities seriously. We've seen Hull FC and Warrington move to new grounds, with a commensurate increas in attendances and corporate support. This increase in attendance has been somewhere between 50% to 100%. Saints should be in a new ground in the next few years, and I expect the same increase there.

We've demonstrated that we can take our big games anywhere in the UK and do well - the Challenge Cup at Murrayfield (Scotland), the Millenium Stadium (Wales) spring to mind. We can also pull quite a few for the regular season games on the Magic Weekend in Wales and Scotland, and the Catalans got nearly 20k when they took a game to Barcelona this year. There is very serious talk of Toulouse joining the SL (they currently play i the division below in the English competition), and they have a hell of a lot of council and commercial money behind them if they do.

Basically, the game has enough momentum that it will really take some stopping. Only absolutely geniused choices can significantly hinder us, and with people like Lewis in charge I can't see it happening. The game is gradually being taken out of the control of a group of local Northern interests, and the most enthusiastic and committed people involved in the game are frequently the neophytes running the clubs outside the traditional heartlands.

We're also getting some interesting people involved in running the clubs; Warrington, Widnes, Saints and now Wigan have people in charge who are not really of the old guard. these are people with real business acumen, and in the case of Saints the transformance has been quite incredible. We've gone from being literally minutes from bankruptcy to being on a stable financial footing and being very, very close to building a new single-purpose RL ground even given the economic collapse, which was felt more keenly in England than Aus.

I know in some articles they refer to League towns, places like Hull (recent comment on how the soccer team played like they were under the six tackle rule 'not surprising considering they're from a rugby league town' kinda thing) but what does that mean in England? I know here in Australia a League town can probably be marked by how excited everyone gets if their team is doing well going into the finals. The town/city is decked out in the teams colours by fans of the game, mayors and councillors start taking bets amongst each other and the local papers start doing feature articles on their favourite players etc. Does any of this happen in the heartlands up in England? I know there's only been relatively few teams make it to the grand final up there but if a team like Hull FC get to the GF would you see the town all decked out in bunting etc or would it just be noted at the club or something? (Catalans Cup appearance is the obvious one I can think of)

Maybe not to the same extent as in Aus, as RL there is an all-encompassing sporting Juggernaut in the regions it is strong. But such a buzz it's certainly there in most cases.

Things aren't perfect over here, but I went from borderline despair in 200 (I genuinely thought we might be done for as a major pro sport) to being extremely bullish about the condition of the game now.
 

deluded pom?

Coach
Messages
10,897
but if a team like Hull FC get to the GF would you see the town all decked out in bunting etc or would it just be noted at the club or something?


I'd be absolutely astounded if the whole of Hull was decked out in black and white bunting if Hull FC made the GF :lol: The chaps and chapesses on the other side of town wouldn't be too impressed. When we made the GF a couple of years ago we qualified the week before so it was difficult to guage the strength of the interest other than banter at work and then arriving at OT to see the support there. The pollies like to jump on any success passing by so the usual meet the mayor sort of thing gets done and the articles in the local paper ramp up as the week passes and the game day arrives. We don't tend to see local businesses openly showing their colours as they might do in a one team town.
 

Lambretta

First Grade
Messages
8,689
I remember being at Bletchley train Station on the day Hull were due to play St Helens at Wembley.

There were a load of blokes in the Red V and Black and White hoops at the train station (I was heading to watch West Ham v Blackburn) and I stopped to ask a bloke in Black and White if Shaun Berrigan was starting as hooker for Hull.

He looked at me like I was an alien - and said in a very slow voice so I would understand him "no lad, we're going to watch Rugby League, not Union" :shock:

Maybe it was my Cockney / Aussie hybrid accent, or maybe he didnt know who Shaun Berrigan was, or maybe he thought I was geniused, but after a couple of efforts to make him understand I meant league to blank stares, I just gave up and walked on by.

At least a Saints fan in the newsagent recognised that the t-shirt I was wearing said "Sydney Roosters - est 1908" and knew what that meant. Had a good chat about the upcoming match.
 

Latest posts

Top