Why Cant We Have 4 New Teams In 2013

[LeagueXIII]

The main issue is the NRL grant...

Current grant I think is $3M per team from the NRL, derived mainly from TV rights etc.

Four new teams would require $12M per year extra to be derived by the NRL for their TV rights sponsorships etc.

Also the current teams all want an increase in the current grant by about 500k

So 500k x 16 is $8M + $12M = $20M extra a year the game would need to generate to pay for these four teams..

I think therein lies the problem...

It only took until he 20th post until someone hit the nail on the head.

This is the issue, not the constant squabbling about kicking teams out etc.

Souths were punted a few years ago and some people were happy they were because it was good for the game, today they have the most members in Sydney. Smart decision.

Get the money we deserve ie. GROW THE GAME than we can invest in new clubs and DEVELOP new players.

We always have reasons why we can't, how about we say we can.

 

[LeagueXIII]

I'd like to see the leaders of our game with a long term vision. Where are we going to be in 10, 20, 30 years from now? What are we going to do for the development of our game in our region ie. NZ, PNG and the Pacific? Academies etc

I would like to see 2 teams added in 2013 obviously Norths/CC and Perth, from then on every TV deal another two clubs until we get 24.

Once we get to 24 we can play the game in conferences/pools/groups whatever you want to call it.

4 pools x 6 teams top two make the finals
10 games plus 12 games against 4 teams from each of the other pools.

TV rights divided up, sponsors of each pool, massive spread of game with basically every city covered plus NZ. Basically the game would be modelled on the American NFL.

Huge potenetial and would take us through the next century.

 

[Eels Dude]

I'd like to see the leaders of our game with a long term vision. Where are we going to be in 10, 20, 30 years from now? What are we going to do for the development of our game in our region ie. NZ, PNG and the Pacific? Academies etc

I would like to see 2 teams added in 2013 obviously Norths/CC and Perth, from then on every TV deal another two clubs until we get 24.

Once we get to 24 we can play the game in conferences/pools/groups whatever you want to call it.

4 pools x 6 teams top two make the finals
10 games plus 12 games against 4 teams from each of the other pools.

TV rights divided up, sponsors of each pool, massive spread of game with basically every city covered plus NZ. Basically the game would be modelled on the American NFL.

Huge potenetial and would take us through the next century.

No, terrible idea. The rest of your ideas are great, but that line of thinking is too Americanised and if we're going to head down that track then your previous great ideas are worthless. Conferences or pools, whatever you want to call them will never work in Australia as Rugby League does not have nationwide support and really is not large enough in relation to the number of major cities we have.

 

[Perth Red]

only need to look at the players that do try and come back to the NRL after the ESL and simply cannot compete at that level.

.

you mean like Barrett, Lyon, Jones etc?

There are at least two competitive teams of ex NRL players playing in ESL. With the tax changes the financial attraction is diminishing.

I do agree though that we should go 2 and then 2 with 5 years apart, but lets plan and know where those 4 teams are going to be now.

 

[Non Terminator]

I'd like to see the leaders of our game with a long term vision. Where are we going to be in 10, 20, 30 years from now? What are we going to do for the development of our game in our region ie. NZ, PNG and the Pacific? Academies etc

I would like to see 2 teams added in 2013 obviously Norths/CC and Perth, from then on every TV deal another two clubs until we get 24.

Once we get to 24 we can play the game in conferences/pools/groups whatever you want to call it.

4 pools x 6 teams top two make the finals
10 games plus 12 games against 4 teams from each of the other pools.

TV rights divided up, sponsors of each pool, massive spread of game with basically every city covered plus NZ. Basically the game would be modelled on the American NFL.

Huge potenetial and would take us through the next century.

Conferences? One of the reasons the NRL is so successful is because every team has an amazing history against every other team. Conferences would kill the game.

Besides, it doesn't mean the top eight will be in the finals anyway.

 

[Eels Dude]

you mean like Barrett, Lyon, Jones etc?

There are at least two competitive teams of ex NRL players playing in ESL. With the tax changes the financial attraction is diminishing.

I do agree though that we should go 2 and then 2 with 5 years apart, but lets plan and know where those 4 teams are going to be now.

Well I agree sort of. Those 4 teams should be the 4 mentioned. Central Coast IMO should be first chosen. Whoever presents the best case out of Central QLD or Perth should be 2nd chosen, I'd give a slight edge to Perth though for TV rights and the fact QLD have 3 sides. It's just a pipe dream though for the moment, it really depends on the NRL's finances and we need a better tv deal, higher crowds and membership until this is possible.

If you look at the list of former NRL players playing in the ESL, about 70-75% of those players didn't go for the money, they went because they were no longer wanted by their NRL clubs. We're talking 50 players for 2 NRL clubs... we may entice some back from overseas but only some. I would, and think everyone else also, should expect if we have two new clubs enter the comp in 2013 then they may struggle for a years. If that happens, then expanding the comp beyond that should be put off the agenda until these first 2 expansion sides are competitive.

 

[no name]

Titans took 25 quality players...now you want 100 taken in a season?

And the lack of depth is still exposed when they have 3 or 4 injuries.
20 teams is too many, those few years in the mid to late 90s proved it with plenty of sub NRL standard players running around

 

[Perth Red]

Brent Webb - Brett Hodgson
Matt Peterson - Scott Donald
Jake Webster - Matt Gidley
Matt King
Fitzhenry
Tim Smith
Thomas leuluia - Monaghan
Jason Ryles - Mick Vella
Shaun Berrigan - Danny Buderus
Palasena -
Lauatiti - Puletua
Steve Menzies - Galea



Theres at least one competitive team off the top of my head that would probably be playing first grade in the NRL if they weren't in ESL.

 

[Miller was a legend]

Who is going to pay them what they can get in England?

Anyway, the answer to the question is, because!

 

[Alan Shore]

I reckon we should stagger it, e.g.

2013: Perth
2014 or 2015: Gosford

then maybe later along...

2018: Wellington

2020: Another Queensland team - CQ/Sunshine Coast/another Brisbane

In particular I think WEllington would result in massive growth in NZ and a lot of kids there and in the Islands switching from Union to League that will boost playing stocks.

 

[Eels Dude]

Brent Webb - Brett Hodgson
Matt Peterson - Scott Donald
Jake Webster - Matt Gidley
Matt King
Fitzhenry
Tim Smith
Thomas leuluia - Monaghan
Jason Ryles - Mick Vella
Shaun Berrigan - Danny Buderus
Palasena -
Lauatiti - Puletua
Steve Menzies - Galea



Theres at least one competitive team off the top of my head that would probably be playing first grade in the NRL if they weren't in ESL.

I don't think they would be. Lauititi, Leulaia, Fitzhenry, Donald, Peterson, Webb would not even get contracts if they wanted back in the NRL... if they were it would be fringe positions at best. Menzies, Gidley and Puletua are at retirement age. The only players out of that list who would walk back into a contract would be Buderas, King, Monaghan... and possible Hodgson and Berrigan for clubs that are desperate. And why would they want to come back anyway for less money?

 

[Perth Red]

I was just making th epoint the talent is there, we just need to find ways to bring it back and keep it in our comp.

The ESL salary cap is virtually the same as the NRL one, now the tax loophole is closed it is no longer all that attractive for alot of players. the big name ageing player will always be paid more in ESl than NRL but the rest may soon be finding it financially no longer that attractive.

of course for some the chance to live in Europe for a few years is an appeal that we can't do much about.

 

[Miller was a legend]

I was just making th epoint the talent is there, we just need to find ways to bring it back and keep it in our comp.

The ESL salary cap is virtually the same as the NRL one, now the tax loophole is closed it is no longer all that attractive for alot of players. the big name ageing player will always be paid more in ESl than NRL but the rest may soon be finding it financially no longer that attractive.

of course for some the chance to live in Europe for a few years is an appeal that we can't do much about.

Why on earth would they want to live in Europe and play footy when they could live in Perth, Central Coast, Darwin. Adelaide and play footy?

 

[t-ba]

Why on earth would they want to live in Europe and play footy when they could live in Perth, Central Coast, Darwin. Adelaide and play footy?

:lol:

The North does look pretty bleak, don't know if I could handle the weather or rows upon rows of rotting terraces and mills. I'd kill to live in a town like Perpignan though.

 

[Eels Dude]

Why on earth would they want to live in Europe and play footy when they could live in Perth, Central Coast, Darwin. Adelaide and play footy?

Rocky, Broken Hill, Dubbo, Wee Waa.... and as you mentioned Adelaide.

 

[LeagueXIII]

No, terrible idea. The rest of your ideas are great, but that line of thinking is too Americanised and if we're going to head down that track then your previous great ideas are worthless. Conferences or pools, whatever you want to call them will never work in Australia as Rugby League does not have nationwide support and really is not large enough in relation to the number of major cities we have.

Not at all. I'm talking about 2020-15, 15 years from now, not next year.

The game needs to grow, rather than kick teams out, include them all just restructure the competition. Why if we want Qld teams in should Sydney teams go who bring alot to the table? There is no reason that Sydney clubs with professional management, new revenue streams, larger income from TV, plan to increase grounds to 20-25,000 seated stadiums etc that the game can't sustain them.

Remember when we had 20 teams they were split into pools of 5 just under the one umbrella.

RL does have reach across Australia. We only need Perth and Adelaide, the latter requires work however Perth I'm confident is ready.

RL is currently undersold and not promoted, we know why. By increasing Qld to 5 teams, a second NZ team, Perth and Adelaide, the coverage is enormous and sponsors would be all over it as well as TV.

Besides the game needs to go somewhere in the next 20-50 years.

 

[LeagueXIII]

No, terrible idea. The rest of your ideas are great, but that line of thinking is too Americanised and if we're going to head down that track then your previous great ideas are worthless. Conferences or pools, whatever you want to call them will never work in Australia as Rugby League does not have nationwide support and really is not large enough in relation to the number of major cities we have.

 

[Eels Dude]

Not at all. I'm talking about 2020-15, 15 years from now, not next year.

The game needs to grow, rather than kick teams out, include them all just restructure the competition. Why if we want Qld teams in should Sydney teams go who bring alot to the table? There is no reason that Sydney clubs with professional management, new revenue streams, larger income from TV, plan to increase grounds to 20-25,000 seated stadiums etc that the game can't sustain them.

Remember when we had 20 teams they were split into pools of 5 just under the one umbrella.

RL does have reach across Australia. We only need Perth and Adelaide, the latter requires work however Perth I'm confident is ready.

RL is currently undersold and not promoted, we know why. By increasing Qld to 5 teams, a second NZ team, Perth and Adelaide, the coverage is enormous and sponsors would be all over it as well as TV.

Besides the game needs to go somewhere in the next 20-50 years.

Define your idea of a pool or conference then??? If it's like the NFL where we have the Eastern, Western etc who play each other and then only meet until the finals series then an absolute and definate NO. We need to develop new sides first and to do that we need them competing with the stronger sides in the competition. If you think I've misinterpreted your idea, then please explain it in more depth and I'll happily comment.

 

[LeagueXIII]

Read what I wrote again, I said 22 games. If there were 4 pools of 6 thats 10 games. The other 12 games would come from playing teams from the other pools.

So from the other 23 teams a club would play 17. Pools would be based to maximise derbies/rivalries. Say a pool of 6 would consist of Wellington, Auckland, Parramatta, Canterbury, St.George and Souths.

 

[1 Eyed TEZZA]

I would like to see 2 teams added in 2013 obviously Norths/CC and Perth, from then on every TV deal another two clubs until we get 24.

4 pools x 6 teams top two make the finals
10 games plus 12 games against 4 teams from each of the other pools.

TV rights divided up, sponsors of each pool, massive spread of game with basically every city covered plus NZ. Basically the game would be modelled on the American NFL.

Other then the fact that we dont have the play talent, and the fact that we arent national, and the fact that our clubs would not be able to handle a competition like that, the structure of Australian broadcasting can not sustain that much Rugby League plus the AFL. It dosent have the money and it cant hope to draw that amount of money.

The NFL dose not structure its pools based on rivalries and local derbys, it is based on audience reach.

They dont make their money because of the structure they have, they make it because they have a very complex and the most effective broadcasting deal IN THE WORLD and they still have more power then the TV stations when it comes to their games getting broadcasts.

Think of this, in the NRL we have 8 teams in our largest city. In the NFL, they have only 2 teams in their largest city (New York). And thats the biggest saturation of a city they have in the comp. New York has more people then this country. Also think of this, LA, their 2nd biggest city and probably the city with the richest population in the USA, dosent even have a team in the NFL, but they still make $20.9 BILLION from TV rights.

RL is currently undersold and not promoted, we know why. By increasing Qld to 5 teams, a second NZ team, Perth and Adelaide, the coverage is enormous and sponsors would be all over it as well as TV.

Besides the game needs to go somewhere in the next 20-50 years.

Yeah that might excite some sponsors, but clubs would then be competing with other clubs for sponsors. At the moment, we have minor competition with sponsors for clubs here in Sydney. If we lose that competitivness, clubs might actually end up having to give in to sponsors and accecpt an unexceptable deal.

I like the idea of expanding, but 20 teams would have to be the limit for at least the next 20 years. Maybe if the AFL some how fall over and Rugby League in NZ gets within arms reach of Union, then maybe we can handle 24 teams, but thats not likley.

Define your idea of a pool or conference then??? If it's like the NFL where we have the Eastern, Western etc who play each other and then only meet until the finals series then an absolute and definate NO. We need to develop new sides first and to do that we need them competing with the stronger sides in the competition. If you think I've misinterpreted your idea, then please explain it in more depth and I'll happily comment.

The NFL actually dosent work like that, teams dont only play teams in one pool, they also play teams in other pools and conferences. It goes on a 4 year rotation so that every team will play every team at least twice in a four year cycle. Still, that is no where near the basis of where they make their money.