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Why didn't League grow like Union did worldwide?

Messages
1,354
I'm curious as to the factors that hinder international rugby league, it's frustrating to see rugby have the global spotlight while league gets the shaft. In a ideal world both league and union would share the international stage equally but they will never be.

One factor I think is the lack of resources and money compared to RU when rugby league was formed. There was very few to spread the word around compare to RU.

Any other ideas because it would of being ideal for international to be the pinnacle of the game and not Origin due to it's untapped potential.
 

winnyason

Juniors
Messages
1,576
League reluctant for 60 years to grow game. Now doing it but all at lower development level around 45 countries play game now.
Governments and union bodies paranoid about league three big cases France, Italy and South Africa. Final point similarities to union make it a hard sell.
 

blukablu

Juniors
Messages
437
Union spread pretty easily being played in Schools, Universities and the Armed Forces where as League was banned. Also not having to pay any of their players meant they had more cash to spend on the spreading the game.
 

Knownothing

Juniors
Messages
764
I am not a sports historian, but I reckon that rugby league in the UK especially was far more interested in developing its own club competition, international expansion was not really seen as important.

The fact that the sport was openly professional from its early days meant that players and administrators were focused on their jobs, which were local, not international. Nobody got paid for spreading the game to other countries, so they didn't.
 

Evil Homer

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
7,178
Lack of funds and motivation. People from Australia and Northern England are notoriously insular and disorganized. Also, RL faced oppression and sabotage from RU in a lot more places than people realize. Countries like Italy and Yugoslavia for example took up RL in the 1950s and 60s but RU used their money and influence to bury the sport in those places.
 

hutch

First Grade
Messages
6,810
I don't think we've ever tried to spread the game. Having no governing body hurts our sport, we are lucky that a few passionate people have taken the game go new places and that it is such a good sport to watch and play so it has spread a little bit.
 
Messages
1,354
Lack of funds and motivation. People from Australia and Northern England are notoriously insular and disorganized. Also, RL faced oppression and sabotage from RU in a lot more places than people realize. Countries like Italy and Yugoslavia for example took up RL in the 1950s and 60s but RU used their money and influence to bury the sport in those places.

Interesting, didn't know about Italy/Yugoslavia participation in rugby league and if wasn't oppressed as you say things could of been different. As spreading the game through other European countries like Italy & Yugoslavia could create a flow on effect hypothetically by spreading the word.
 
Messages
1,354
I don't think we've ever tried to spread the game. Having no governing body hurts our sport, we are lucky that a few passionate people have taken the game go new places and that it is such a good sport to watch and play so it has spread a little bit.

Getting government recognition is key for a sport to grow as is provides access to funding to grow grassroots. Having no official body hurts any potential growth with league being the breakaway code and IRB being formed in 1866.
 

mikeob

Juniors
Messages
789
In NZ rugby union did everything within their power to hinder rugby league, particularly after WW2. Headmasters stopped it getting into schools, that still occurs today, local councils refusing to allocate grounds when rugby league was starting up in new areas. Also local councils giving the quality grounds to union and league was played on mud heaps and swamps. I went to a private school, 250 boarders, 250 day pupils, it was compulsory to play union and just one kid played league. Playing any sport for money used to be frowned on. This held league in NZ back and I don't think the NZRL has ever had a leader who had a plan to become # 1. And of course union has the very successful all blacks.
 

madunit

Super Moderator
Staff member
Messages
62,358
RL had no interest in expansion.

It took a journo to take the game to France.

It took a Frenchman to even have a World Cup.

RL has never been focussed on global expansion. Sure the antics of RU haven't helped, but RL hasn't exactly been pro active themselves.
 

Steve Davy

Juniors
Messages
352
Sporting boundaries have not changed much since the introduction of mass media. There are changes, american football has grown in the USA last hundred years, but it was the primary form of football in the there even back then.

100 years ago, rugby league had taken over as the main form of football in Queensland and NSW, while AFL was dominant in Melbourne. In Britain, football ruled in Scotland and most of England, apart from some rugby league towns and the fee-paying schools and the Englsih South West playing rugby union.

In many ways, the lack of spread of sports generally is the question. A few that were in steep decline have declined futher, such as shinty.

It does seem that when mass media arrived, sports stopped competing as they had before and whatever sport dominated in an area remained that way. It was the first time hype became an issue for the major sports. This may also explain why where rugby league has spectacularly succeeded in PNG is where there was no mass media, which would have preserved the status of that sport.

That is pretty much why rugby league has survived. Then we have the things that have been against us. I often think it is very difficult to communicate the antipathy that the national media have often has towards rugby league in the UK. You may not feel that you have had a fair shake, a little over ten years ago there were many people in the south of England who genuinely believe that rugby league as a sport had completely died off - as in there were not teams in the world and no person played it. Imagine the media disinformation necessary for that.

Equally, the British had rather a large empire. Rugby union has a small presence through much of the world through diplomatic connections. Rugby union automatically had many people with money around the world to set up a token presence. The British army also helped spread sport, which meant the officer class sport, which was rugby union. Then, there was a significant wave of anglo-philia after World War 2, which meant that British sports got a leg up. Those sports were rugby union and cricket.

If you came to a new country and wanted to start rugby league as recently as 1980, how would you do it. First, you could start with the local rugby union club, but they would be banned if they were involved in playing rugby league. So, anyone with an interest in rugby football would be banned if they started. So, you obtain two sticks and attach it to soccer posts and that will do.

Next, you need the expertise. Any rugby league coach is likely to have a nice position in the rugby union club and may not want to give it up for nothing. You also have no refs, no locals have seen this game at all and it would be hugely difficult to show them what it looks like (no DVD's or Youtube).

Despite all this, you manage to set up a successful competition. Hooray! You write a letter to the RFL or the AFL and look forward to support, as the IRB are offering huge amounts of cash and support to switch to rugby union. What happens? The RFL and AFL tell you to send them money and stop bothering them.

There can be enough to make it work in places like London, but we compare ourselves with a sport that has been given huge articial advantages.
 

RHCP

Bench
Messages
4,784
Rugby league has had a chip on it's shoulder since inception. RU and AFL fans and admins will tout their games virtues to whoever they can meet, RL fans and admins are much more content with melodrama and pessimism.
 

warrior poet

Juniors
Messages
111
i think the biggest problem was that in england and other countries RU was an upper class game (in boarding schools etc) while league was the working mans game (played by miners etc), therefore union had people with money supporting it while league didn't (even though league has always been a pro game it has also always been the poorer of the two codes). People in other countries would send their kids to these boarding schools (or live in one of these countries) and they would learn (and love) the game and take it back to their home countries. (also when they got back to their home countries they would get into positions of power and therefore favour union over league due to what they were told at the boarding schools)
We also had places like france (in the 1930's), italy/yugoslavia (in the 1960's) and south africa/russia (currently) where the governments were seriously on the side of union, to the point of banning the game, officially de-registering the game and other such dick-moves.
Also as is the case currently with italy and the usa we seem to have had a lot of infighting between different factions where the established faction has issues in accepting new and beneficial ideas (ie; the arl during the superleague war).
In countries like NZ where we have a serious union focus (obviously) it has always been treated poorly and still is (watch the sport news on tv over here if you don't believe me)

I know that there are people on here who will viciously disagree due to their bigoted viewpoints but a victory to superleague during the superleague war would have been the best result for international league and the result we ended with put international league back 20 years.
For the benefit of international league we need a new superleague-type organisation that will invest the sort of money into the international game that superleague was going to! (maybe an international 9's series to start with?)... and let the argument begin!
 

shiznit

Coach
Messages
14,817
In NZ rugby union did everything within their power to hinder rugby league, particularly after WW2. Headmasters stopped it getting into schools, that still occurs today, local councils refusing to allocate grounds when rugby league was starting up in new areas. Also local councils giving the quality grounds to union and league was played on mud heaps and swamps. I went to a private school, 250 boarders, 250 day pupils, it was compulsory to play union and just one kid played league. Playing any sport for money used to be frowned on. This held league in NZ back and I don't think the NZRL has ever had a leader who had a plan to become # 1. And of course union has the very successful all blacks.
I can't speak on the past...

But I know first hand that RL gets a raw deal by the higher ups in NZ based on perception.

The gang culture is very strong in rugby league in a lot of areas. Having gangs heavily linked to clubs are common place.

I love RL... But I'll definitely think twice about signing my son up to a local club as the club scene in some areas are disgraceful.

It's just chalk and cheese with RU...
 

deluded pom?

Coach
Messages
10,897
Basically it was the RU jackboot and RL administrator's incompetence that restricted the growth of the game worldwide.
 

ParraEelsNRL

Referee
Messages
27,733
RL had to live hand to mouth all of its life, it's a club game and players need to be paid and always have done. The money wasn't there to do anything really seeing as no one controlled the world game.

All those tours around Aus, NZ, Eng/Wal and France had at times massive crowds, if we had of had a proper RLIF, they'd have been able to make a mint on a lot of those tours where over 200,000 people would attend matches.

Plus the odd interference from the other lot at times didn't help.
 

miguel de cervantes

First Grade
Messages
7,474
Apart from all of the above, union was amateur - meaning international games were more evenly matched, whereas league has always been aus/uk top heavy because this is where the pro leagues are!

Mediocre, close games are more easily sold than higher class but lopsided games.
 
Messages
1,354
All those tours around Aus, NZ, Eng/Wal and France had at times massive crowds, if we had of had a proper RLIF, they'd have been able to make a mint on a lot of those tours where over 200,000 people would attend matches.

Plus the odd interference from the other lot at times didn't help.

Good post, France use to draw great crowds on tour back then if a proper rlif was implemented the tour money could be distributed to test teams and the rlif would gain revenue to build over time. I assume the tour money got split among the players back then with no official government body.
 
Messages
1,354
1951 france tour of australia drew 450k that shows how powerful international rugby league could be. 60k at the scg is amazing. Interesting too is france rl is the first of france sports to tour Australia.
 

madunit

Super Moderator
Staff member
Messages
62,358
Good post, France use to draw great crowds on tour back then if a proper rlif was implemented the tour money could be distributed to test teams and the rlif would gain revenue to build over time. I assume the tour money got split among the players back then with no official government body.
The money was split a few ways.

Among the players in the game, among the host team and the visiting team (to cover expenses) and any profits after that filtered back to the governing body of the respective countries involved in the game.

In cases where a tour was financed by a person or persons (and not a RL governing body), the profits would be used to repay their outlay and any monies remaining went back to the governing body.

RL national bodies hated losing/risking money.

Except France.

France entirely funded the first world cup, they were so passionate about it and adamant that it would work. France's national body, since day 1 had always been big on expanding the game. England and Australia were less keen. They were pushing for a World Cup pre-WWII.

Jean Galia attempted to take the game to the USA not long after the French RL had been formed.

When the World Cup negotiations for the first Cup were underway (the second time around), France wanted to invite a team from the USA. England said no.

Stockpiling cash and self-interest has been the preferred modus operandi of most RL governing bodies.

The few times they dared expand the game, they were attacked by RU.

RL didn't fight back, they just crumbled and let RU get their way.

The International RL board (and other countries RL organisations) did very little to support France during Vichy or to help them after WWII.
 

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