Why do people call RU, 'rugby'??

[Te Kaha]

Who?

Poor union.

Denial again manoj..er... old darlin ... er.. calaxite.. geez its hard keeping up with your banned aliases...

 

[joedynamo]

Par for the course. Denial is their favourite condition.

:lol:

Speaking of denial:

This shows anyone, but an idiot, that the RFU was the first administrator of the Code of Rugby Football, and this have the first rights to the name

The rules of Football as codified by Rugby School were in place well before the rfu formed - an international match was played under them four months before the rfu published the 'laws of Football' (as played by the rfu.)
Are you suggesting that the 1871 rfu 'laws' match those of the Rugby School game, because if they dont..

That didnt happen until 1871 when the RFU was form and the rules were properly codified.

THAT is the first time codified Rules/Laws were in place that ALL followed.

Thats not quite true, is it Te Kaha.

 

[Thomas]

Denial again manoj..er... old darlin ... er.. calaxite.. geez its hard keeping up with your banned aliases...

He isn't hard to spot is he? :lol:

 

[Te Kaha]

:lol:

Speaking of denial:


The rules of Football as codified by Rugby School were in place well before the rfu formed - an international match was played under them four months before the rfu published the 'laws of Football' (as played by the rfu.)
Are you suggesting that the 1871 rfu 'laws' match those of the Rugby School game, because if they dont..


Thats not quite true, is it Te Kaha.

FFS.. as i have said almost a dozen times in this this thread... There were no standard set of rules that all the clubs followed until the RFU was formed and set down them down. Until then the rules differed between club to club... even when the cambridge rules were set, clubs still didnt stick to those.

And as to the use of first, it was in the context of the Rugby codes and clubs.. The RFU was the first governing body for codified Rugby football.

As for the international, it was played under one or the set of rules of the time.

 

[Te Kaha]

He isn't hard to spot is he? :lol:

No he's not... his ego is sooooo out of control, no matter how hard he tries he always gives himself away.

 

[Thomas]

I know! He tries hard but then the usual stuff comes out. A quick check is how many anti-RU posts are in his history and how many posts there are about international rugby league. It is also rather amusing to see a poster with so few posts next to his name 'conversing' with other posters in TFC as if he's known them for years.

On another forum he used to log in with Dally Messenger's password and harass me. It was like Dally was bi-polar....well, more so.

 

[Thomas]

I know! He tries hard but then the usual stuff comes out. A quick check is how many anti-RU posts are in his history and how many posts there are about international rugby league. It is also rather amusing to see a poster with so few posts next to his name 'conversing' with other posters in TFC as if he's known them for years.

On another forum he used to log in with Dally Messenger's password and harass me. It was like Dally was bi-polar....well, more so.

 

[joedynamo]

FFS.. as i have said almost a dozen times in this this thread... There were no standard set of rules that all the clubs followed until the RFU
was formed and set down them down.

With all due respect my friend, it doesnt matter how many times you say it - you will still be wrong.
Edit: The Rules of Football as played by Rugby School were published way before the rfu was formed. These Rules were used as a guide to the early, non school, games.

Until then the rules differed between club to club... even when the cambridge rules were set, clubs still didnt stick to those.

So after 1871, ALL games between union teams were played under one set of rules/ laws.

And as to the use of first, it was in the context of the Rugby codes and clubs.. The RFU was the first governing body for codified Rugby football.

And unions or teams would in no way, never, ever, play under anything other than either IRFB laws or rfu laws.
Because if they had, your argument about a codified sport would be kinda invalid, wouldnt it?

 

[Te Kaha]

With all due respect my friend, it doesnt matter how many times you say it - you will still be wrong.
Edit: The Rules of Football as played by Rugby School were published way before the rfu was formed. These Rules were used as a guide to the early, non school, games.

The key word there is "guide"... there were many variations of rules. There was no "one" set of rules that all followed

So after 1871, ALL games between union teams were played under one set of rules/ laws.

All clubs affiliated to the RFU played under the single set of codified rules. or are you implying that some of those clubs played under different rules??

And unions or teams would in no way, never, ever, play under anything other than either IRFB laws or rfu laws.
Because if they had, your argument about a codified sport would be kinda invalid, wouldnt it?

How does it invalidate it any way????

 

[joedynamo]

And as to the use of first, it was in the context of the Rugby codes and clubs..

But we’ve already established that ‘The laws of Football as played by the pupils of Rugby School’ were codified and being used as the basis for Rugby Football, before and after the formation of the rfu.


The 1863 Rugby rule book is online as are copies of the 1871 rfu rules.

As for the international, it was played under one or the set of rules of the time.

The Newspapers of the time clearly state the match was under The Rugby School Rules. It couldn’t have been played under the 1871 rfu rules as they didn’t exist.


Oops, did we just change a fundamental but false piece of unionite spun history.

I wonder what other parts of union history have been falsified.


Back to the question in the OP. Where I grew up Rugby meant Rugby League.
Just like the irfb, most people called rugby union..rugby union.

 

[Te Kaha]

Context is everything...

But we’ve already established that ‘The laws of Football as played by the pupils of Rugby School’ were codified and being used as the basis for Rugby Football, before and after the formation of the rfu.

Again you are using words like "basis" and "guide"... those rules were not common rules among the clubs. Each club had its own rules for "Rugby Football". it wasnt until the RFU was formed that a comman set of rules was used among the clubs... Or are you disputing this?

The 1863 Rugby rule book is online as are copies of the 1871 rfu rules.

And what about the dozen other rulebooks in use bef the 1871 rfu rules?

The Newspapers of the time clearly state the match was under The Rugby School Rules. It couldn’t have been played under the 1871 rfu rules as they didn’t exist.

Yes it was.. but which "rules" were those? as has been quoted ad nausem there were many differnt sets of rules based on the‘The laws of Football as played by the pupils of Rugby School’ as you put it.

Oops, did we just change a fundamental but false piece of unionite spun history.

In your mind maybe.

I wonder what other parts of union history have been falsified.

None or lots.. unles you provide evidence to of each "falsehood" then it amounts to squat.

Back to the question in the OP. Where I grew up Rugby meant Rugby League.
Just like the irfb, most people called rugby union..rugby union.

Bully for you.. where i grew up Rugby League was called Rugby League or League and Rugby was called Rugby or Football... on this forum Rugby is called Union, Yawnion and lots of other childish names.. doesnt make any of them right...

However the LEGAL name for the code, the one set down in all the legal documents at the RFU, IRB and other Unions is "Rugby Football" or simply "rugby".

 

[joedynamo]

Context is everything...

It usually means the person who has posted it is losing the debate. It’ll be Ad homs next.

Again you are using words like "basis" and "guide"... those rules were not common rules among the clubs. Each club had its own rules for "Rugby Football". it wasnt until the RFU was formed that a comman set of rules was used among the clubs... Or are you disputing this?

There was a common set of rules available, based on the Rugby School code. Where do you think the word Rugby comes from?
Quick question, are you trying to suggest that from 1871 ALL rfu teams ONLY played under rfu rules?

And what about the dozen other rulebooks in use bef the 1871 rfu rules?

What about them?

Yes it was.. but which "rules" were those? as has been quoted ad nausem there were many differnt sets of rules based on the‘The laws of Football as played by the pupils of Rugby School’ as you put it.

Quite right, that should read Rules of Football as played by the pupils of Rugby School.

In your mind maybe.

Nah lad, historical fact. Whatever rules the first Rugby Football International was played under, it certainly wasn’t those of the rfu.

None or lots.. unles you provide evidence to of each "falsehood" then it amounts to squat.

Patience grasshopper..

However the LEGAL name for the code, the one set down in all the legal documents at the RFU, IRB and other Unions is "Rugby Football" or simply "rugby".

Really? Like the 1893 rule which stated’ the name of this society shall be the rugby Football union’. Or page one of the 1871 rfu rule book which states ’the Laws of Football’ as played by the rfu?

Others ITT, have pointed out the former irFb position on the name of the sport commonly known as rugby union, which pre 1930 stated: “ The Laws of the game of Football, as played by X union”
Notice the change from the 1871 rules and oh yea, the Scottish Football union didn’t bother to add rugby to their title until 1925.

Bully for you.. where i grew up Rugby League was called Rugby League or League and Rugby was called Rugby or Football... on this forum Rugby is called Union, Yawnion and lots of other childish names.. doesnt make any of them right...

Both League and union evolved from the game known as Rugby Football. Why does it upset you that rugby can mean either, neither, both?

 

[Te Kaha]

It usually means the person who has posted it is losing the debate. It’ll be Ad homs next.

No i made the assumption that, in a debate concerning the Name "rugby" applying to which code that intelligent posters would realise the context of my posts... my mistake.

There was a common set of rules available, based on the Rugby School code. Where do you think the word Rugby comes from?
Quick question, are you trying to suggest that from 1871 ALL rfu teams ONLY played under rfu rules?

But did everybody play the same rules? no they didnt.. they had their own version BASED on those rules... hardly a codified sport.

What about them?

It illistrates my point that there were many differnt sets of rules.

Nah lad, historical fact. Whatever rules the first Rugby Football International was played under, it certainly wasn’t those of the rfu.

And where did i say it was... it was played under one of the many varied sets of rules.

Really? Like the 1893 rule which stated’ the name of this society shall be the rugby Football union’. Or page one of the 1871 rfu rule book which states ’the Laws of Football’ as played by the rfu?

Others ITT, have pointed out the former irFb position on the name of the sport commonly known as rugby union, which pre 1930 stated: “ The Laws of the game of Football, as played by X union”
Notice the change from the 1871 rules and oh yea, the Scottish Football union didn’t bother to add rugby to their title until 1925.

Which re-enforces the fact that "Rugby Union" isnt the name of the sport. thanks for the clarifcation.

Both League and union evolved from the game known as Rugby Football. Why does it upset you that rugby can mean either, neither, both?

Have you read the entire thread??? obviously not... I said in my opening post and repeated it several times... Rugby and League both have a right to refer to themselves as mearly "Rugby" as both are a form of "Rugby Football"... show me where i have said otherwise????

However my contention is that Rugby has the first right to the name as it was the first of the codes to use the name.

 

[joedynamo]

No i made the assumption that, in a debate concerning the Name "rugby" applying to which code that intelligent posters would realise the context of my posts... my mistake.

I understand the context, its just that history doesnt back your version.
Points for trying though.

But did everybody play the same rules? no they didnt.. they had their own version BASED on those rules... hardly a codified sport

.
Quick question, are you trying to suggest that from 1871 ALL rfu teams played ONLY under rfu rules?

And where did i say it was... it was played under one of the many varied sets of rules.

So you agree that the very first Rugby Football international wasnt played under the 'laws of Football as played by the rfu'. Theres hope for ya yet.

Which re-enforces the fact that "Rugby Union" isnt the name of the sport. thanks for the clarifcation.

It also re-enforces the fact that "rugby" isnt the name of the sport. Even the irFb agrees that rugby union sounds way better than 'Football as played by the x union'.

However my contention is that Rugby has the first right to the name as it was the first of the codes to use the name.

But Rugby Football is the name of a code played at, but not confined to, Rugby School, the rules of which were published way before 1871 and an international game had been played under its rules, long before rugby union had published its 'laws'.
But thanks for the clarification.;-)

 

[Te Kaha]

I understand the context, its just that history doesnt back your version.
Points for trying though.

Where doesnt it? nothing you have shown in any way contradicts what i have said.

Quick question, are you trying to suggest that from 1871 ALL rfu teams played ONLY under rfu rules?

Thats an absurd question... given the tens of thousands of games played since 1871 there is next to no chance that every game has been played by the exact same rules... what i said was.. that when the RFU was formed a set of rules was written that all clubs affiliated to the RFU followed.. something that had not been done previously.. the last time a set of "standard " rules were tried i.e. the cambridge rules, there was no agreement to follow them and each club played under its own rules.

So you agree that the very first Rugby Football international wasnt played under the 'laws of Football as played by the rfu'. Theres hope for ya yet.

I at no stage said it was... oh and what was the governing body in control of that game???

It also re-enforces the fact that "rugby" isnt the name of the sport. Even the irFb agrees that rugby union sounds way better than 'Football as played by the x union'.

No it doesnt... you are making things up again... since the International Rugby Board, formarly known as the International Rugby Football Board has not been known as the International Rugby Union Board.

But Rugby Football is the name of a code played at, but not confined to, Rugby School, the rules of which were published way before 1871 and an international game had been played under its rules, long before rugby union had published its 'laws'.
But thanks for the clarification.;-)

And what "rugby football" rules are currently played at Rugby school? Since you seem to think that the true Rugby code is played at Rugby school and they must be the final arbiter, then i bow to your wisdom and admit that the Rugby Football" currently being played at Rugby school IS the first and true Rugby code. And since the school website currently has "rugby Football" on its list of games played you could very well be correct.

Oh.. and a quick question.. since you are SOOOOOO fond of quick questions... What rules did the Breakaway "NU" clubs play under when the broke away from the RFU... was it the same rules played at Rugby school at that time? or was it the RFU's rules?

 

[Paley]

Oh.. and a quick question.. since you are SOOOOOO fond of quick questions... What rules did the Breakaway "NU" clubs play under when the broke away from the RFU... was it the same rules played at Rugby school at that time? or was it the RFU's rules?

Why were the RFU called The Rugby Football Union if they weren't playing Rugby Football?

 

[WireMan]

Back in the day all Universties had there own version of football.

Sometimes when to Unis met i.e. Oxford vs Cambridge they would play a half each with both rules (This could be where half time originated from).

In the mid 1800's the Unis decided that they need to standardise the rules. Most of the Unis agreed to rules which look a lot like 'soccer' now. They were known as an association of Unis. Therefore Association Football or soccer was born.

A few others decided that it was a silly idea and followed the rules from Rugby School. These Unis were a Union of places. Hence the Rugby Football Union.

The rules were codified and followed. The 'NU' would of followed the RFU rules when they split.


Its was called Rugby originally as its a short version of Rugby Union, the original Rugby game, based on the place the rules originated from. Not the game played by dirty upstarts from the Industrial North.

Its also a heirarchy thing. The biggest code you call Football, so in NSW its League, in Adelaide its prob AFL (a guess), in the USA its Gridiron. In the UK its soccer. Rugby comes next, then either league or union, depending where you are in the world.

 

[joedynamo]

Where doesnt it? nothing you have shown in any way contradicts what i have said.

You really excel yourself later. Keep reading.

Thats an absurd question... given the tens of thousands of games played since 1871

C'mon Te kaha, raise ya game lad. Its actually quite a simple question, to someone with a vast knowledge of rugby union like yourself.

I at no stage said it was... oh and what was the governing body in control of that game???

Dunno, though I do know that it wasnt played under the laws of Football as played by the rfu .
Some dodgy ppl and organisations will try n tell ya different tho, the rfu for one.

since the International Rugby Board, formarly known as the International Rugby Football Board has not been known as the International Rugby Union Board.

Erm, did the voices tell ya to post that, because it kinda makes no sense or relevance.

Now, you've made quite a lot of posts saying that the 1871 laws codified the game and therefore has first use on the word rugby.

Funny thing is, the word rugby appears only twice in the 1871 book. Once on the title page in the phrase 'rugby Football union' and again on the first page: The Laws of the GAME of FOOTBALL as played by the rugby Football union.

Seriously, as a unionite, do you know just when it changed from ‘laws of the game of Football’ to ‘laws of the game of rugby Football’?

And what "rugby football" rules are currently played at Rugby school? Since you seem to think that the true Rugby code is played at Rugby school and they must be the final arbiter, then i bow to your wisdom and admit that the Rugby Football" currently being played at Rugby school IS the first and true Rugby code. And since the school website currently has "rugby Football" on its list of games played you could very well be correct.

NFI, but then Ive never met any unionite who would attempt to make such a dumb connection.

What rules did the Breakaway "NU" clubs play under when the broke away from the RFU... was it the same rules played at Rugby school at that time? or was it the RFU's rules?

Relevance?

 

[Te Kaha]

Why were the RFU called The Rugby Football Union if they weren't playing Rugby Football?

They were playing Rugby Football.

C'mon Te kaha, raise ya game lad. Its actually quite a simple question, to someone with a vast knowledge of rugby union like yourself.

I have never claimed to have a vast knowledge of anything... like you i can use google.

Dunno, though I do know that it wasnt played under the laws of Football as played by the rfu .
Some dodgy ppl and organisations will try n tell ya different tho, the rfu for one.

Hard to play under an organisation that doesnt exist... probably because tere wasnt a governing body at all at that stage.

Erm, did the voices tell ya to post that, because it kinda makes no sense or relevance.

You said that the IRB/RFU et al PREFERED the name "Rugby Union".. YOU made that claim... the fact that its not in any of their legal names sort of proves you made that claim up... thats its relevance.

Now, you've made quite a lot of posts saying that the 1871 laws codified the game and therefore has first use on the word rugby.

Again you are ignoring the context... the thread is about why Rugby has first right to "Rugby" as apposed to "RL"... it WAS the first governing organisation to codify "Rugby Football" rules... there was no "RL" organisation before it.

Funny thing is, the word rugby appears only twice in the 1871 book. Once on the title page in the phrase 'rugby Football union' and again on the first page: The Laws of the GAME of FOOTBALL as played by the rugby Football union.

Again.. where does it show they "prefer" the name "Rugby Union"... it doesnt.. you lied.

Seriously, as a unionite, do you know just when it changed from ‘laws of the game of Football’ to ‘laws of the game of rugby Football’?

Havent looked that up on google.. you obviously have, so why dont you share.

NFI, but then Ive never met any unionite who would attempt to make such a dumb connection.

I didnt.. YOU did... since you arent addressing it i guess you actually know the answer to the question.

Relevance?

er... its what the thread is about... you should read the entire thread!!! honestly.. it will help!

 

[Te Kaha]

Why were the RFU called The Rugby Football Union if they weren't playing Rugby Football?

They were playing Rugby Football.

C'mon Te kaha, raise ya game lad. Its actually quite a simple question, to someone with a vast knowledge of rugby union like yourself.

I have never claimed to have a vast knowledge of anything... like you i can use google.

Dunno, though I do know that it wasnt played under the laws of Football as played by the rfu .
Some dodgy ppl and organisations will try n tell ya different tho, the rfu for one.

Hard to play under an organisation that doesnt exist... probably because tere wasnt a governing body at all at that stage.

Erm, did the voices tell ya to post that, because it kinda makes no sense or relevance.

You said that the IRB/RFU et al PREFERED the name "Rugby Union".. YOU made that claim... the fact that its not in any of their legal names sort of proves you made that claim up... thats its relevance.

Now, you've made quite a lot of posts saying that the 1871 laws codified the game and therefore has first use on the word rugby.

Again you are ignoring the context... the thread is about why Rugby has first right to "Rugby" as apposed to "RL"... it WAS the first governing organisation to codify "Rugby Football" rules... there was no "RL" organisation before it.

Funny thing is, the word rugby appears only twice in the 1871 book. Once on the title page in the phrase 'rugby Football union' and again on the first page: The Laws of the GAME of FOOTBALL as played by the rugby Football union.

Again.. where does it show they "prefer" the name "Rugby Union"... it doesnt.. you lied.

Seriously, as a unionite, do you know just when it changed from ‘laws of the game of Football’ to ‘laws of the game of rugby Football’?

Havent looked that up on google.. you obviously have, so why dont you share.

NFI, but then Ive never met any unionite who would attempt to make such a dumb connection.

I didnt.. YOU did... since you arent addressing it i guess you actually know the answer to the question.

Relevance?

er... its what the thread is about... you should read the entire thread!!! honestly.. it will help!