Why does rugby league have trouble expanding internationally compared to other codes

[Coastbloke]

The NRL is scared stiff of IRL. As mentioned before, a big increase in the acceptance of IRL might mean less obssession of SOO. The NRL does NOT want that to happen.

Can you imagine if France, PNG, Fiji, Wales and Samoa became tier 1 nations and an effort was made to sell IRL. Looking at player numbers and the level of domestic competition in PNG can someone explain why PNG isn't up there with NZ?

What a scenario. Instead of the usual May Test against NZ we'd have a Test against PNG with 80,000 at ANZ and a scoreline like 22-18..

I

 

[Knownothing]

Rugby League will be serious about the international dimension of the game when there is an inbound Test series during the Australian winter. Until then, it does not really matter what happens in South Africa or Dubai, frankly.


Don't worry about the rah rahs discriminating against the IRL and expansion of the game, Australia holds all the cards and is the biggest impediment to the growth of the game. And I do not mean the Australian Rugby Union.

 

[Last Week]

International Rugby League will be taken more seriously when it is more competitive.

The absolute best thing other nations can do is get more players into professional leagues or set up their own fully professional leagues..

 

[taste2taste]

League will always struggle as long as Union is played in the schools and university's. Kids grow up playing a sport, grow a passion for it and then as adults they follow it.

For league to grow internationally it might need to target countries where Union doesn't already have a strong foothold. Spain, Lebanon, Serbia .. etc. I think long term the code that gets a successful professional competition in the USA will most likely win the war.

Unfortunately League has been far to slow and incompetently run to expand the game. 5 years ago Joey said if League was aggressive it could completely kill off Union in the Pacific Islands. 5 years on and not much has changed.

 

[Perth Red]

Yep there is no strategy, finance or will to grow IRL full stop. Club self interest, country self interest and Australian myopic fans/personalities and media will see that IRL will never get a place of priority. In the mean time Union has become an Olympic sport, has introduced Italy to the 6 nations, has introduced Japan and Argentina to the Super whatevers, has full test calendars, consistent tournaments, World 7's etc etc.

As long as we remain big fish in small ponds all will be well in NRL/SL club land.

 

[Wizardman]

RU Is serious about international competition. It has a central administration which oversees international competition, and the rules of the game. Ironically, there was very luke-warm acceptance of a World Cup from the old fogeys of the Northern Hemisphere, but that has proven to be a huge revenue boost for the internationalization of the game.


RL pretty much revolves around the NRL. That's where the money, power, and influence are. If the NRL really wanted a thriving international game they would have to give up a lot of that, and that will never, ever, happen.

Good post, but there is one bigger factor you have missed....the fans attitude. Not one of my mates in Australia truly gave a f**k about the four nations matches over the weekend. To me, that is the biggest obstacle.

 

[Wizardman]

League will always struggle as long as Union is played in the schools and university's. Kids grow up playing a sport, grow a passion for it and then as adults they follow it.

For league to grow internationally it might need to target countries where Union doesn't already have a strong foothold. Spain, Lebanon, Serbia .. etc. I think long term the code that gets a successful professional competition in the USA will most likely win the war.

Unfortunately League has been far to slow and incompetently run to expand the game. 5 years ago Joey said if League was aggressive it could completely kill off Union in the Pacific Islands. 5 years on and not much has changed.

Hopefully, a fiji team gets into the NSW Cup and gets a lot of support. A key move which could be a winner.

 

[Poul]

Good post, but there is one bigger factor you have missed....the fans attitude. Not one of my mates in Australia truly gave a f**k about the four nations matches over the weekend. To me, that is the biggest obstacle.

I think NRL fans will only start to take more notice of International Rugby League when it becomes more competitive. At the moment, the Kiwis have been able to put up a few good performances against the Kangaroos, but also a few more ordinary ones. I think that what International Rugby League really needs is for England to win a major tournament. That looks unlikely to happen in the present 4 Nations, so I think they should be aiming at the 2017 World Cup. If England were to beat Australia in a World Cup final in Australia, then I think that even some diehard club fans may just take notice.

 

[VictoryFC]

Good post, but there is one bigger factor you have missed....the fans attitude. Not one of my mates in Australia truly gave a f**k about the four nations matches over the weekend. To me, that is the biggest obstacle.

That's the disease of having the most successful professional league in the sport. Same who gives a shit attitude in England with soccer.

The club game is what grows a sport, not the international game. It's true that the international success can ignite a spark in interest, but for it truly permeate a society, a professional league has to take hold. Because, in the long term, this is what will underpin everything else.

England in soccer/Australia in RL can be shit, lose every game, and it wouldn't dent the overall standing of the game due to the strength of the club game.

 

[Last Week]

That's the disease of having the most successful professional league in the sport. Same who gives a shit attitude in England with soccer.

The club game is what grows a sport, not the international game. It's true that the international success can ignite a spark in interest, but for it truly permeate a society, a professional league has to take hold. Because, in the long term, this is what will underpin everything else.

England in soccer/Australia in RL can be shit, lose every game, and it wouldn't dent the overall standing of the game due to the strength of the club game.

Spot on. True success in any market when it comes to sport is a self sustaining professional league.

 

[BrisbaneRhino]

Competitiveness is key in the long term. I'd say most Australian fans aren't interested because games against England/GB are generally a foregone conclusion. RU has a massive advantage on that score because the rules of the sport enable a team with strong forwards and no backs to beat a team with an average pack but great backs (see numerous England vs Australia games as examples). RL ruthlessly exposes weaknesses in a way that RU simply doesn't, because you can't keep the other side from roughly 50% of possession.

OTOH what we saw at the last WC in England is that fans are willing to turn up even to one-sided games if the competition is seen as an event rather than just a sporting contest.

We saw that with the RUWC here in Aus a few years ago - people I know who would never even bother to watch a game of RU on TV were going to games like Romania vs Ireland or whatever just because it was seen as a big event. The scorelines may have been hugely lopsided but nobody cared.

That's why it drives me up the wall when you get people like Gould tut-tutting at bits of poor play by England, PNG or whoever. Compare and contrast to the RU commentators who instead would spend the whole game talking about how plucky some team of no marks was as they lose by 80 points. If we want international RL to grow we need to stop obsessing about absolute quality and focus on entertainment.

Oh, and neutral refs are an absolute must. Nothing screams parochial amateur-mentality sport than insisting on NRL refs to ref Australia because they are 'better'. Half the point of neutral refs is that they annoy both teams equally.

 

[expansionist]

and then today in the Courier Mail there is an 'article' by Mike Coleman slamming Scotlands inclusion in the 4N... written in a snide sarcastic manner..

No wonder fans arent interested? Theyre being told not to be!

 

[docbrown]

I'll add one more: perception. The Kangaroos & All Blacks are basically the equivalent of each other in their respective sports.

Scotland are ranked 8th on the IRB & RLIF rankings

In Union: Scotland vs Australia 9 wins, 20 loses, 0 draws 11.5 to 24.3 avg pts
In Union: Scotland vs New Zealand 0 wins, 28 loses, 2 draws 11 to 30 avg pts

So Scotland lose by 19 points on average to the All Blacks and have never won a game. Yes, Scotland have won games against other Union countries but so have the League side. In terms of the number of competitive countries Union still has the advantage but things like the All Blacks dominance are treated with awe whereas the Kangaroos are treated with disdain...

 

[Perth Red]

Good post, but there is one bigger factor you have missed....the fans attitude. Not one of my mates in Australia truly gave a f**k about the four nations matches over the weekend. To me, that is the biggest obstacle.

IRl has been more competitive over last decade than SOO in terms of results but hasn't dampened interest in that. More to do with general malaise of poor attitude to IRL by NRL and SL which translates into media not giving a f**k which translates into fans not giving a f**k.

 

[Knownothing]

I'll add one more: perception. The Kangaroos & All Blacks are basically the equivalent of each other in their respective sports.

Scotland are ranked 8th on the IRB & RLIF rankings

In Union: Scotland vs Australia 9 wins, 20 loses, 0 draws 11.5 to 24.3 avg pts
In Union: Scotland vs New Zealand 0 wins, 28 loses, 2 draws 11 to 30 avg pts

So Scotland lose by 19 points on average to the All Blacks and have never won a game. Yes, Scotland have won games against other Union countries but so have the League side. In terms of the number of competitive countries Union still has the advantage but things like the All Blacks dominance are treated with awe whereas the Kangaroos are treated with disdain...

With all due respect to the Kangaroos, the All Blacks are a global brand. That's why they are playing internationals in New York (against Ireland) or Hong Kong (against Australia).


One reason that they are so well respected, is that they have built up a long tradition of competitiveness in the game.



To use Scotland as the counterpoint, in rugby union Scotland has been playing internationals regularly for 100 or more years, and they have had some wins against some good teams. Again, there is a long tradition there.


It takes time to build up a tradition.

 

[Perth Red]

How long have the Kangaroos played IRL?

Dave Smith came in saying he wanted to make IRL the pinnacle of the game and the next RLWC a massive event. As a Welsh Union fan he knew the importance of international profile of a sport to take it to another level with non sport loving public. Would have been interesting to see if he could have achieved something or if club self interest would have thwarted him?

 

[Knownothing]

How long have the Kangaroos played IRL?

Against Scotland?

 

[Stallion]

How long have the Kangaroos played IRL?

Dave Smith came in saying he wanted to make IRL the pinnacle of the game and the next RLWC a massive event. As a Welsh Union fan he knew the importance of international profile of a sport to take it to another level with non sport loving public. Would have been interesting to see if he could have achieved something or if club self interest would have thwarted him?

Dave Smith also wanted the game to target growth and development in the private schools of Australia. This has now been seemingly forgotten by the powers that be.

It's astonishing that in this day and age that such a popular football code in rugby league is still an "outcast" in the private school system. It has had access in Brisbane private schools from 1928 to 1938, so its achievable! This is the underlying reason for rugby league's lack of growth as people whom make major decisions for funding, televising and government recognition are mainly derived from the private school systems of the world at large.

The fact that these people are not given the opportunity to play and see rugby league at private schools is a massive impediment for the potential growth of rugby league globally. It's important to note that all football codes have access to the public school system in Australia yet rugby league is the only code that is repeatedly ostracized in the private school systems.

Only the "Irish "Catholic schools accept and encourage rugby league which can be historically seen to be the fundamental basis for rugby league's dominant popularity in NSW & Queensland areas.

If rugby league ever gains traction in private schools throughout Australia then you would see a resultant exponential growth in the game. This in turn would see the game grow internationally as the word would be spread at the influential "top end" of town. It's pretty simple but the "establishment" (dominated by RU private school influence) is doing its level best to make sure that rugby league does not get traction in the private school system. In reality, a superior form of rugby(rugby league)is being repressed/suppressed by rugby union's influence emanating from the private school system.

It's interesting to note that in recent years "AFL" is being accepted in the private schools of NSW & QLD yet rugby league is still on the outer. Perhaps some "sweetheart deal" has been arranged between the code of RU and "AFL"? Meaning that basically a strategy of: " If AFL attacks the junior weekend ranks of rugby league then RU will give it ("AFL")access to the private schools of NSW & QLD." Seems to be happening!

And given the many other anti-rugby league examples of bigotry courtesy of rugby union, I can see that something like this would be a strategy by such people of influence and power.

 

[taipan]

How long have the Kangaroos played IRL?

Dave Smith came in saying he wanted to make IRL the pinnacle of the game and the next RLWC a massive event. As a Welsh Union fan he knew the importance of international profile of a sport to take it to another level with non sport loving public. Would have been interesting to see if he could have achieved something or if club self interest would have thwarted him?

Good in theory, but when Smith paid $5-600,000 a year for some useless hacks in head office(who have since left),he was hardly off to a good start with money to spare.Part of the money saved in admin, is the extra dosh being used in Affiliated states(the $500,000 pa)
The point is money made here in the main ,funds NRL clubs, grassroots and admin.Up til 2012 there was no money in the kitty.In 2012 the NRL actually lost money.
The bulk of money for Internationals comes from RLWCs.Until such time as they make $50m plus min,the code will be behind the 8 ball internationally.

 

[Knownothing]

Dave Smith also wanted the game to target growth and development in the private schools of Australia. This has now been seemingly forgotten by the powers that be.

It's astonishing that in this day and age that such a popular football code in rugby league is still an "outcast" in the private school system. It has had access in Brisbane private schools from 1928 to 1938, so its achievable! This is the underlying reason for rugby league's lack of growth as people whom make major decisions for funding, televising and government recognition are mainly derived from the private school systems of the world at large.

There is not a "world private schools system". Each country is different. Indeed, even in Australia, there is huge diversity in what you call the "private school system". Apart from the GPS schools, there are a heap of other private schools and private schools systems. And just in case you are not aware of it, despite rugby league being an "outcast", the broadcast revenues of the game in Australia are booming, and far outstrip anything that the so-called establishment sport of rugby union can attract. Why is this so?

If rugby league ever gains traction in private schools throughout Australia then you would see a resultant exponential growth in the game. This in turn would see the game grow internationally as the word would be spread at the influential "top end" of town.

Rugby league is already popular in Australia, the reason that it is not as popular internationally has to do with a whole lot of factors, none of which have anything to do with the "top end of town" in Australia.

It's interesting to note that in recent years "AFL" is being accepted in the private schools of NSW & QLD yet rugby league is still on the outer. Perhaps some "sweetheart deal" has been arranged between the code of RU and "AFL"? Meaning that basically a strategy of: " If AFL attacks the junior weekend ranks of rugby league then RU will give it ("AFL")access to the private schools of NSW & QLD." Seems to be happening!

And given the many other anti-rugby league examples of bigotry courtesy of rugby union, I can see that something like this would be a strategy by such people of influence and power.

A sweetheart deal between the AFL and ARU to invite the AFL to take over in private schools? That is the silliest thing I have ever read on the internet, bar none.


Firstly, the ARU has no power over what private schools (or public schools, for that matter) do. If they did, all schools would be playing rugby union, and not soccer, AFL, rugby league, or anything else.


Secondly, the AFL is attacking "junior weekend ranks" of all ot its competitors, including rugby union. Why would the ARU want to give them more power?