Why expand?

[East Coast Tiger]

What a crook of crap, take the Gold Coast it was a viable entity with over a mill in the bank but News kicked them out so that the Broncos could have a monopoly for as long as they did. News are only interested in what's good for News not the game we all love.

News didn't kick the Chargers out. They folded of their own accord. It was the Crushers that were chopped, not to mention Perth and Adelaide. That last point was and is correct though.

 

[East Coast Tiger]

As for the Country NRL team thing, it just isn't viable. If there was somewhere in country NSW that was able to grow it's population significantly over the next 10 or 15 years to the point where it was able to sustain a competitive club (like the Gold Coast has), then maybe. But there in nowhere even close at present.

People seem to forget that Canberra and Newcastle have been walking a tight-rope just to survive for much of their history and Illawarra was forced into a merger for the same reason and these cities are much bigger, population wise, than country regions like the central west. NRL clubs need significant corporate support to survive and there isn't enough about, especially outside Sydney. The only way a country club could make enough money would be if the NRL increased funding by about 300% via TV money or other revenue and/or if a Leagues Club was able to chip in several millions dollars a year.

Even then player, corporate and media facilities would have to brought up to scratch at whichever country venues would be used and the club would have to attract optimum crowds. Realistically, 10,000 would be about the average we could expect, unless games were all played at venues that could hold more and there aren't many that can, and that isn't really enough to help the club break even, especially if you're looking at shifting games all over the place.

I'm from the country and I'd love to see some kind of major boost to the game here but an NRL club based in the bush is head in the clowds stuff for now. There are plenty of other more realistic things the NRL, ARL and CRL could do to assist the game here and certainly places with a far greater potential for an NRL club like Perth.

 

[griff]

A country NRL team is just pie in the sky. You would need pretty much the entire population of the town to come out and support them every single week.

What is needed is a NSW state league on the Qld Cup sort of model. Newtown, Norths, Illawarra, Dubbo, Coffs, Wagga, Queanbeyan + a few of the stronger Newcastle teams + a couple of Central Coast teams + Perth.

With not having Premier League anymore, there are a lot of players too old for the NYC but not in an NRL squad which would provide the pool of players. The standard would be quite high and would revitalise country RL. All that is needed is for feeder arrangements to be set up between the NSW state league sides and NRL sides.

 

[East Coast Tiger]

A country NRL team is just pie in the sky. You would need pretty much the entire population of the town to come out and support them every single week.

What is needed is a NSW state league on the Qld Cup sort of model. Newtown, Norths, Illawarra, Dubbo, Coffs, Wagga, Queanbeyan + a few of the stronger Newcastle teams + a couple of Central Coast teams + Perth.

With not having Premier League anymore, there are a lot of players too old for the NYC but not in an NRL squad which would provide the pool of players. The standard would be quite high and would revitalise country RL. All that is needed is for feeder arrangements to be set up between the NSW state league sides and NRL sides.

Even a state league is unlikely to work. It's expensive, it means the best players are taken from their local club sides and the true country teams would probably struggle to compete with the likes of Sydney or Newcastle sides. Most Newcastle club sides would beat even the best Group sides from the Northern, Oxley, Central/Hunter and other regions so any country side would have to buy players, which means more money. A lot of people look at the Qld Cup and think why can't we do that here? But even in the Qld Cup the Brisbane/Gold Coast clubs dominate while the country sides like Centrals struggle. Even Toowoomba couldn't survive with help from the Broncos and it is a very strong RL city. Townsville only survived because it bacame the Young Guns (Cowboys), Bundaberg lasted one season, Cairns has already folded once and Mackay will be up against it. Yet in Qld they have the advantage of no Premier League and Jim Beam Cup so it is the main competition below the NRL. The NSW Premier League will still exist from 2008 onwards and the JBC will remain so a state league would have to fit into that structure somehow and gain NRL support. If country clubs wanted to enter the Jim Beam Cup they probably could, if the Sydney clubs let them, but they'd have to find a fair bit of cash and a lot of players and they'd probably still struggle to attract bigger crowds than the local a grade.

 

[griff]

Even a state league is unlikely to work. It's expensive, it means the best players are taken from their local club sides and the true country teams would probably struggle to compete with the likes of Sydney or Newcastle sides. Most Newcastle club sides would beat even the best Group sides from the Northern, Oxley, Central/Hunter and other regions so any country side would have to buy players, which means more money. A lot of people look at the Qld Cup and think why can't we do that here? But even in the Qld Cup the Brisbane/Gold Coast clubs dominate while the country sides like Centrals struggle. Even Toowoomba couldn't survive with help from the Broncos and it is a very strong RL city. Townsville only survived because it bacame the Young Guns (Cowboys), Bundaberg lasted one season, Cairns has already folded once and Mackay will be up against it. Yet in Qld they have the advantage of no Premier League and Jim Beam Cup so it is the main competition below the NRL. The NSW Premier League will still exist from 2008 onwards and the JBC will remain so a state league would have to fit into that structure somehow and gain NRL support. If country clubs wanted to enter the Jim Beam Cup they probably could, if the Sydney clubs let them, but they'd have to find a fair bit of cash and a lot of players and they'd probably still struggle to attract bigger crowds than the local a grade.

True, it would require a fundamental re-design of the sub-NRL competitions. But I think it is definitely in the interests of the sport and the clubs that there is a high quality open age sub-NRL level available.

I think this means replacing the premier league and Jim Beam Cups with a single state league, with all the NSW based clubs operating quasi-independent feeder clubs, sort of like the MLB AAA farm system. For example, a Queanbeyan team would function as Canberra's open age farm team, the Illawarra Steelers would function as the Dragons open age farm team, a Dubbo team might function as Parramatta's open age farm team. I think the people of Dubbo would really get into having their own team in a state league. The players at the existing Dubbo clubs would have a route to the big time, from playing for the local clubs to the state league side to the NRL. I think this would really help RL in the country.

 

[Gee_Up]

North Coast (North Sydney and Central Coast)

Play out of two parks- Blue Tongue and North Sydney Oval.

Another QLD team.
Another Melbourne team.
Perth team.
Adelaide team.

Re-locate/merge the Roosters as it has no junior base to move, average fan numbers at best and South Sydney Juniors have the finances to actually develop those areas making it into a Rugby League strong hold. maybe draw a line between North and South of the Eastern Suburbs and go halves with Manly.

 

[flamin]

What benefits are there in growing the game?

What will these new markets bring and why do we need this?

TBQH, it doesn't really worry me if these downtrodden lands that you speak of aren't exposed to Rugby League to a greater level, I am sure many know it already exists.

Even if youre not fan of rugby league so much as the fan of a club, from a more selfish point of view expansion would bring about more juniors and therefore raise the playing standard of the game, therefore making it more enjoyable to watch.

 

[Coaster]

News didn't kick the Chargers out. They folded of their own accord. .

Thats wrong.

Part of the deal struck between News and the ARL was that the chargers either merge with News owned Hunter marineers, or be cut from the comp.

Becuase GC didnt merge, they were sliced out of the game with healthy profits, and the Storm introduced with mainly Hunter players

 

[Green Machine]

Group 18 and Group 6 still don't and the CC only gets a few on the road games.

I really don’t see driving from Tweed Heads or Byron Bay to Carrara that difficult. My point being that Campbelltown City and Collegians were part of Group 6 in 1981. Narellan, Camden, Picton, Mt Annan, The Oaks and Oakdale are just next door to Campbelltown. I think I’ve read where Manly will play two games at Bluetongue next year on top of Souths V Cronulla Trial, plus Roosters and Souths premiership matches,

Plus being accessible, whatever that means - surely everywhere is accessible, doesn't really mean people on the bush are inclined (or encouraged) to support their "local" side.

What I meant, it is not that far for a most Rugby League to travel to an NRL. I’ve been to games in Sydney and it has taken close to 2 hours to get home.

Here in the north west/New England there are some people who support the Knights because they are probably our closest club (although the Titans are now an option) but they are far from considered our local club.

I think the popularity of the Knights in the North West would be because of their two grand final wins and the exposure they get on NBN throughout Northern NSW.

Places like the Monaro, south coast, hunter, mid north coast and northern rivers/far north coast might be different but there are many parts of the bush where the NRL is seen as the realm of the metropolis and something people generally just watch on TV.

TCN 9 in Sydney shows exactly the same amount of Rugby League and Rugby League Shows as NBN and WIN show in Regional NSW. Friday Night Football viewing suggest a lot of Sydney fans sit at home and watch the footy as well

They support teams for many reasons, georgraphy has little to do with it in many cases.

I agree. I grew up in country NSW and 90% people followed a club because they were a winning team. When I went to school in the early 70’s, 90% followed Souths and Saints.

If catered for means we can watch the game on TV and make a pretty long trip once in a while to see a game then I guess the bush is catetred for but that can hardly be compared to places that actually have a local team in the vacinity.

If you supported a Group 4 team in Tamworth and went to watch them play in Moree, you could drive to Newcastle in the same time. I know a lot of people who live in the country and make a couple of trips a year. We all know that Newcastle, Illawarra and Canberra have struggled financially over the years in the Big League. The representation we have not from NSW Country is the best we are ever going to get. If a city like Illawarra can’t financially support a fulltime NRL team, Dubbo, Tamworth, Orange and Wagga have got no chance
The best thing that could happen for Country Rugby League is if the NRL could take control of the scheduling of Trial matches and make sure games are scheduled in regional centres like Tamworth, Dubbo, Wagga each season. The demise of Wagga Leagues Club was a crying shame. A little intervention from the NRL would have been a great long term investment. If the NRL can waste money on the City Country match each year, they could afford to underwrite premiership matches in regional centres

 

[East Coast Tiger]

If you supported a Group 4 team in Tamworth and went to watch them play in Moree, you could drive to Newcastle in the same time. I know a lot of people who live in the country and make a couple of trips a year. We all know that Newcastle, Illawarra and Canberra have struggled financially over the years in the Big League. The representation we have not from NSW Country is the best we are ever going to get. If a city like Illawarra can’t financially support a fulltime NRL team, Dubbo, Tamworth, Orange and Wagga have got no chance
The best thing that could happen for Country Rugby League is if the NRL could take control of the scheduling of Trial matches and make sure games are scheduled in regional centres like Tamworth, Dubbo, Wagga each season. The demise of Wagga Leagues Club was a crying shame. A little intervention from the NRL would have been a great long term investment. If the NRL can waste money on the City Country match each year, they could afford to underwrite premiership matches in regional centres

Most people don't travel to watch their clubs in the bush though. Even Moree is closer to Tamworth than Newcastle is, but that's beside the point. You can't compare what fans have in Sydney, Brisbane, Newcastele etc to what country fans have (or don't have). They have NRL games on their doostep every week (or every second week). We have to travel. I got to one game this year and I probably could have only got to one more realistically but I wasn't organised. And I'm lucky because I support the Knights so they are relatively close. If you are from Moree or Walgett or Lightning Ridge getting to any games would be a big effort.

As for the NRL and trial games - I've been saying for ages that we need to go bck to the old country carnival days when the NRL chose the venues etc for trials. That would mean every region got a game at least every few years instead of the same places getting a game every year while others never get any.

 

[East Coast Tiger]

Thats wrong.

Part of the deal struck between News and the ARL was that the chargers either merge with News owned Hunter marineers, or be cut from the comp.

Becuase GC didnt merge, they were sliced out of the game with healthy profits, and the Storm introduced with mainly Hunter players

The Chargers didn't fold until the end of the 1998 season, a year after the deal was struck and a year after the Mariners were cut. The Crushers were the ones who were told to merge and when they didn't they were cut, along with Perth and Hunter.

 

[KillKillerKill]

There's some thoughtful discussion in this thread.

 

[Green Machine]

Most people don't travel to watch their clubs in the bush though.
Even Moree is closer to Tamworth than Newcastle is, but that's beside the point.

My point was the time to travel to Moree is not much different than travelling to Newcastle. Top quality Rugby League is a lot more accessible for most country areas compared to 20 years ago,

You can't compare what fans have in Sydney, Brisbane, Newcastele etc to what country fans have (or don't have).

Exactly, I didn’t

They have NRL games on their doostep every week (or every second week). We have to travel. I got to one game this year and I probably could have only got to one more realistically but I wasn't organised. And I'm lucky because I support the Knights so they are relatively close. If you are from Moree or Walgett or Lightning Ridge getting to any games would be a big effort.

That’s true. Probably more so if you were a Rugby League fan in Cobar or Griffith. Though, I’ve got a mate in Moree who used to travel up to Brisbane each year on an organised tour to see the State of Origin

As for the NRL and trial games - I've been saying for ages that we need to go bck to the old country carnival days when the NRL chose the venues etc for trials. That would mean every region got a game at least every few years instead of the same places getting a game every year while others never get any.

That’s what any professionally run organisations would do to make sure they are looking after their cliental and grow their market share. Shame the NRL was not a bit more professional

 

[Perth Red]

Most people don't travel to watch their clubs in the bush though. Even Moree is closer to Tamworth than Newcastle is, but that's beside the point. You can't compare what fans have in Sydney, Brisbane, Newcastele etc to what country fans have (or don't have). They have NRL games on their doostep every week (or every second week). We have to travel. I got to one game this year and I probably could have only got to one more realistically but I wasn't organised. And I'm lucky because I support the Knights so they are relatively close. If you are from Moree or Walgett or Lightning Ridge getting to any games would be a big effort.
.

Try having to fly for 4 or 5 hours to see a game!

Agree about the pre season games though. They should be rootated around strategically importnat areas (inc interstate) not left to the clubs to organise.

 

[Desert Qlder]

I've had a vision people - Alice Springs Camels, NRL Champions 2020 .

 

[no name]

The Chargers didn't fold until the end of the 1998 season, a year after the deal was struck and a year after the Mariners were cut. The Crushers were the ones who were told to merge and when they didn't they were cut, along with Perth and Hunter.

THey didn't fold on their own accord though. They still had millions in the bank, they were one of the only clubs to finish ahead in 98.

 

[shaggy]

What a crook of crap, take the Gold Coast it was a viable entity with over a mill in the bank but News kicked them out so that the Broncos could have a monopoly for as long as they did. News are only interested in what's good for News not the game we all love.

yes but news kicked the gold coast out before souths
if you re read my post it says since souths not before

 

[fourxman]

I am a large supporter for Expansion.

I think the introduction of Perth & Wellington in 2012 will be a good step in the development of the game. Perth is a growth area and has the population, support and potential sponsorships to have a team there. Wellington would help develop NZ rugby league and providing a larger base for New Zealanders to make Test Matches and the International Game more competitive.

Following that I would like to see a Sunshine Coast, Adelaide side as that would largely increase the supporter base Nationally. I don't think having a Central Coast side at this stage provides many benefits. I think the Central Coast would most likely support Rugby League already and the Population is too widely spread. I would be curious to see if they would be able to draw the corporate buck for sponsorships as well (We all remember that Newcastle only just a few years ago had issues getting sponsors).

I don't want to see expansion get too out of control but i think entering these areas will help develop the game and create large support, exposure and more dollars. This does not need to be at the expense of a current NRL Side.

I also support the English Super League moving into France, Wales and if they can move into other countries such as Spain would be beneficial to the International Game as well.

I also think what Rusty is attempting to do in the US is another way of expansion by creating new fan bases.

Besides Expansion the NRL, RLIF, ESL all need to promote the game positively throughout the world, country, states and cities and continue to do so. Not one off attempts.

 

[Dave Q]

The world has been full of far more challenging tasks than giving the otherwise neglected NSW country their own full-time side.

This is an important heartland of the game, theyve given us so much.

They'd get at least 15,000 to every match at Dubbo. Then they could do Orange and maybe Bathurst.

These towns are just around the corner from each other in country parlance where they are used to travelling 200km within a blink of the eye.

Ive lived out there for a time, I know, theres some big money out in the bush. Theres not a great deal of alternative live entertainment out there and an NRL club would be well subscribed to.

Never say never.

 

[Lockyer4President!]

Never say never.

The only way 'country NSW' will ever get an NRL team is if the comp expands to 32 teams...