Why expand?

[innsaneink]

Actually while on this topic I would love to hear the thoughts of:

Wests Tigers (Or Wests or Balmain) supporters. Now that you are 7 years on from merging. How do you feel about the merger now? Are you peeved with expansion? Or do you think the merged entity is a good thing?

Norths fans - If expansion ever brings about the Central Coast Bears, would you support this team? (surely they could play a game or 2 each season at North Sydney Oval)

Illawarra fans - Are you happy with the SGI merger and do you think this is the best way forward for league in Illawarra or do you still pine for the Steelers?

Bittersweet I guess.

They said one thing when we merged, moved the goalposts afterwards and bring in GC.

Will cop the usual "move on" and "get over it" calls, yet if it was your team you'd probably feel the same.

I doubt I'd have seen a GF win though if it was still Magpies/ Balmain.

Funny how things work though, I grew up in Ashfield and the local team is what drew me to the Magpies, when they went to Cambo it lost a lot of appeal for me....now live in the Balmain/Wts district not far from TS so once again theyre my 'local team'.... but it took me 2 or 3 years.

I dont like Melbourne, I dont like the GC...but I do see expansion is crucial for the games survival and am happy to see it working in Vic.

 

[qldseaeagle96]

Thanks ink,

Very interesting, I do get it completely. I turned my back on the game through the dark days of the Nthn Eagles - even saw some idiot at the GF this year in a NE jersey!! Told him it was like celebrating September 11 wearing that sh*t.

Goalposts were absolutely moved, and I was very glad to see WT win the premiership. Pleased that people in general seem to have embraced the move (decent crowd numbers etc..) but completely understand people who feel bitter, especially as the game is expanding again.

 

[East Coast Tiger]

Balmain and Wests would have struggled to survive though and neither would have been able to get the crowd support or on-field success the merged club has. There probably had to be some adjustment to the number of clubs in Sydney that was always going to cause some heartache. It's a shame the News Ltd clubs like Cronulla and Penrith were immune from this process but in the end Souths have survived, Balmain and Wests fans still have a club to support (whether they choose to or not is another matter), Illawarra has adopted the Dragons pretty well and Manly eventually remained (okay so some downsides). Norths fans have most reason to be agrieved but the move to the CC was the right one and still might happen. Whatever your take on this rejigging of the competition it's clear that expansion beyond Sydney is the key to real national growth and the reality is that Sydney clubs are going to be under pressure to keep their place when other cities are the targets for expansion. I don't think anyone can begrudge the Gold Coast their spot and Sydney fans have to realise that their inclusion is far better fo the game than another Sydney club, especially one dependent on pokie money with few juniors and only dreams of a Souths-style resurgence as was the case with a few of those that bit the bullet in 1999. If it came to it I'd sooner see a Sydney club disappear altogether if it meant greater growth of the game across the nation (or in NZ) via a new franchise. It may not come to that.

 

[winnyason]

I have to say it is time to expand or get f**king overun by AFL that is the choice we can sit here & go but what about the heartland but the game has to grow period.
Perth is must, and onto a 2nd nz franchise no doubt plenty of doubters to this but this is my arguement for it

*the amount of kiwis in the aussie nrl teams.
*nz winning the tri series in 2005.
*AFL have no international game period.
*competing with the super 14 having a geniune trans tasman comp not a token one professional team from the ditch.
*a nz derby.
*nz will never be strong enough to have there own comp.
*it is not a risk considering wellington is a geniune league city along with auckland.
* they have a billionaire backer not millionaire that's right.

When will gallop wake & see AFL is seriously trying to get into league heartland eg 2nd sydney team, gold coast talk of townsville.
Or he will wait till it is to late like or always does reactive not proactive.

 

[Billythekid]

Actually while on this topic I would love to hear the thoughts of:

Wests Tigers (Or Wests or Balmain) supporters. Now that you are 7 years on from merging. How do you feel about the merger now? Are you peeved with expansion? Or do you think the merged entity is a good thing?

Norths fans - If expansion ever brings about the Central Coast Bears, would you support this team? (surely they could play a game or 2 each season at North Sydney Oval)

Illawarra fans - Are you happy with the SGI merger and do you think this is the best way forward for league in Illawarra or do you still pine for the Steelers?

F**k no. Steelers might as well not exist anymore with the way they treated in the merger.

 

[LeagueXIII]

People need to ask why we have no vision for the future, and not because Gallop is this or that, but what is the REAL agenda of News. Are they just biding time before they leave the game or is there some other thing driving it? Because most professional sports have a plan, yet we have nothing, I want to know why?

On the issue of Balmain, Wests, St.George, Norths etc surviving I think it is a furphy they, particularly Balmain and Saints couldn't survive, when clubs like Cronulla can. Sure in 1997-98 when there was no money in the game because of the War News had to cut costs ie get rid of teams, but 10 years later there is more money in the game and it is still growing. Also with a professional management and I'm not talking ex-players running the show but corporate types like at Souths now the opportunities are enormous.

Clubs like Balmain and Saints with there history and support are huge, and for them to toss it in so easily is piss poor, they just had to ride out the hard times just as Souths have done. Now look at the way they have turned it around.

People believe to much what is coming from people with an agenda eg. newspapers and News Ltd lackies. We constantly hear clubs wouldn't have survived, why wouldn't they? Did they try were they given professional help? As for crowds being good at the merged clubs this is another furphy. How is it good for RL when once we had 50-60 games in Sydney now we have less than 20 by these teams. Where have all Norths supporters gone, remember they use to average 15,000. Saints and Illawarra averaged 12,000 last year and 14,000 when they were successful, both Illawarra and Saints would have average this if they hadn't merged. So where are the other half of there supporters. Same as Wests and Balmain when these clubs were successful in the past between them they pulled in 25,000 yet now as a single entity they get 16,500. As well as losing half the supporters at games meging clubs decreases the passion and people can take or leave clubs, basically no passion.

Sport runs in cycles so you are down, then you are up, look at Manly.

League always takes the soft option, now we want teams out of Sydney, WHY, it will only give AFL an easier run for there second team. It's not moving teams we need it's growing the pie so there is more for everyone.

 

[LeagueXIII]

Exactly Billy. WT is basically Balmain and STI is St.George, lets stop the charade.

 

[Razor]

There should be 18 teams.

There should be a team in Perth, Adelaide, Central Coast, Wellington, Ipswich, 2nd Brisbane(or Redcliffe). And Dragons to be at Woolongong full-time.

Wests -> Perth
Sharks -> Adelaide
Bulldogs -> Wellington
Roosters -> Brisbane

Ipswich and Central Coast can be 2 new teams.

And later on more expansion. Maybe a team in Christchurch and 1 other.

 

[Big-Steve]

Actually while on this topic I would love to hear the thoughts of:

Wests Tigers (Or Wests or Balmain) supporters. Now that you are 7 years on from merging. How do you feel about the merger now? Are you peeved with expansion? Or do you think the merged entity is a good thing?

Norths fans - If expansion ever brings about the Central Coast Bears, would you support this team? (surely they could play a game or 2 each season at North Sydney Oval)

Illawarra fans - Are you happy with the SGI merger and do you think this is the best way forward for league in Illawarra or do you still pine for the Steelers?

I thank you for the question.

Without doubt I would support a Central Coast Bears even though it may not be controlled by North Sydney as it would have been back in 1999 (there is likely to be more involvement by the CCRL) But if the colours are red and black, they are the Bears, the North Sydney Records carry over and the North Sydney District is included in the junior area - I would support it.

On expansion I'm not sure the NRL has an expansion agenda as such or maybe not what we all want. i.e. setting up a team in Perth is one thing but to do it at the expense of an existing club is really the issue for many of us.

The thought of Manly or the Sharks or someone relocating to the coast horrifies me and makes me physically sick. If this were to happen I might actually have to walk away from the sport (despite the horrors I have already been through as a Bears supporter).

Also I do not agree that rugby league is strong. With it's fractured administration there are many indications that the NRL (rightly or wrongly) only sees itself as a promoter of the NRL. For clubs that fall below the NRL level this is bad because the ARL's and especially the NSWRL's lack of marketing and promotion almost sets them up to be sued for damaging the viability of there own competitions. And the Media appears to lack the investigative ability to look beyond the NRL promotion. Meanwhile (and some of you can confirm this) the QRL comp has had free to air coverage this year!
This fractured structure has the NRL advertising Manly in the Heart of Bears territory or Wests Tigers in Newtown as if rugby league does not exist in any form other than the NRL.

It's this fractured administration that lead to the North Sydney District being banned from the U20s rep scene and that unforgivable moment when the ARL (without talking to any of the clubs announced in the national papers that the 16s and 18s would also go national. This set parents and juniors in North Sydney in to a panic that they simply did not deserve. And then there's the Country Rugby League – how well are they doing?.

RUGBY LEAGUE HAS NOT RECOVERED FROM THE SUPER LEAGUE WAR - RUGBY LEAVE HAS NOT LEARNT FROM THE PAST - RUGBY LEAGUE IS NOT STRONG - IMHO

 

[LeagueXIII]

Forget Adelaide we don't need them, we more than make up for what we lose in SA with NZ. SA is a state going nowhere, virtually zero population growth forecast in the next 20 or so years.

I agree Big-Steve, too many people don't look beyond the BS spewing from News Ltd media or there selected representatives eg. Tallis etc.

 

[Lockyer4President!]

Forget Adelaide we don't need them, we more than make up for what we lose in SA with NZ. SA is a state going nowhere, virtually zero population growth forecast in the next 20 or so years.

I agree Big-Steve, too many people don't look beyond the BS spewing from News Ltd media or there selected representatives eg. Tallis etc.

You can't just write off Adelaide like that. Obviously they won't be front of the line when it comes to handing out places in the NRL but they've got to be in the plans somewhere, 1 million people is just too many to ignore.

 

[innsaneink]

Exactly Billy. WT is basically Balmain and STI is St.George, lets stop the charade.

Yeah?

How so?

 

[JW]

From the outside looking in the Tigers look lightyears closer to resembling a 50/50 merger than the Saints/Illasox.

 

[Lockyer4President!]

Mergers will never be a true 50/50 split but Wests Tigers are about as close as they you can get imo, that premiership win just a few years after the merger really helped I reckon.

 

[clivethemessiah]

Mergers will never be a true 50/50 split but Wests Tigers are about as close as they you can get imo, that premiership win just a few years after the merger really helped I reckon.

That's because Balmain were a struggling club bu the late 90's and Wests had been struggling for years before that. It was the ideal merger.

 

[innsaneink]

From the outside looking in the Tigers look lightyears closer to resembling a 50/50 merger than the Saints/Illasox.

Thats how it feels supporting em.

Its almost at times too much 50/50 at times.

 

[LeagueXIII]

Balmain were struggling at the time of the merger but they had just come off a very successful period 1983-1990 and were re-building. They were in their down period of the cycle.

If Balmain had bought Sheens as coach and recruited well ie. Prince and Marshall along with a couple of forwards they would have been just as successful.

Balmain had the support to survive, they have a massive supporter base. 2 years ago everyone on here wanted Souths out, now they are on the verge og great things. This is what can be done at these clubs with positive management.
St.George has everything going for them yet they sell out to suit some agenda. Would clubs like Liverpool, Man Utd, Collingwood, Carlton etc do that...NEVER, so why would St.George do it.

Instead of selling out clubs should be pushing for 20-25,000 stadiums, pro-active mnagement, looking for revenue stream to replace pokies. Not we can't afford it lets move, because what happens when the money dries up where they move to?

 

[LeagueXIII]

You can't just write off Adelaide like that. Obviously they won't be front of the line when it comes to handing out places in the NRL but they've got to be in the plans somewhere, 1 million people is just too many to ignore.

ZAdelaide has 2 AFL teams. You are assuming that this 1 million people will follow a sport foreign to them when they are happy with their AFL. Why bother for 10,000 people and no juniors.

Besides if they are going o do it at least start with giving them live games on FTA like they use to in the 1990's.

 

[Sam_the_man]

Just as well the gentlemen of the George hotel in Huddersfield or Albert Baskerville didn't ask why bother expanding or the author of this thread would be supporting either rugby union or AFL.

 

[Lockyer4President!]

ZAdelaide has 2 AFL teams. You are assuming that this 1 million people will follow a sport foreign to them when they are happy with their AFL. Why bother for 10,000 people and no juniors.

10,000 people and the strong likelihood of a junior production line a decade down the track is a hell of a lot better than just ignoring them. And unlike Melbourne there's already a good little rectangular stadium waiting to be used. All it needs is a team, the product will sell itself. The Rams did pretty well in their first season and that was after a total rush job, imagine what'd happen if we set things up like the Titans have done.


Not to mention that we shouldn't just be happy with saying "we've got NZ and the AFL has WA and SA". We should be trying to get WA and SA in the NRL and saying, "Look, we cover all the states you do PLUS we've also got NZ, something you'll never have".

Besides if they are going o do it at least start with giving them live games on FTA like they use to in the 1990's.

Agreed. Better tv coverage in the frontier states needs to be a top priority. It's getting better with sunday afternoon games in Perth (iirc) but we still have a long way to go.