Why Gallop is right on this one

[IanG]

cleary89 whilst it was unfortunate that you found youself in such a situation, why should we have to be tarred with the same brush?

 

[HevyDevy]

That's exactly right Ian.

See, the 30% estimated loss of revenue would be justified if that 30% came from problem gamblers. But it won't. So in effect, clubs and pubs will be losing 30% of poker machine revenue while problem gamblers continue to find ways to gamble.

As I said earlier, I once had a significant poker machine problem but guess what? That wasn't the fault of the poker machines. The responsibility was 100% on me.

 

[cleary89]

I can see the push against restricting personal liberties, but from what I have read on the policy you sign up for the card (one off) and every time you go there you pre select how much you want to spend.

While it is a minor inconvenience, it really does seem minor. Go in and put a 10k spending limit every time if you like.

I don't support restricting the loss limit per hour or the bet size, but the pre selected limit does seem like a good idea to me.

People who want to play the pokies still can, with the 30 second inconvenience of having to pre select limits.

 

[Frailty]

Meh I agree with the reforms, I use to put my whole student allowance in after a $1500 win when I was 17. I rarely touch them now, and often choose to go to places that don't have pokies because I know when I'm drunk I don't trust my self with them.

Now the issue here is you gambling when you were 17, and that you were drunk.... Funny that many let this go through to the keeper. You go on later to say that you weren't a 'problem gambler' - then why use this as an example...

These new reforms would be massive for people like my self, who would choose at the start of the night not to touch them and it would happen. Tell me to get some self control or what ever, why should everyone else suffer for people like me... People will hardly suffer, sign up for a card, takes 5 minutes.

People will suffer, clubs pour a lot of money into the community - and for every person who can't be bother to sign up for a card more money is taken out of the community.

Despite this, there are already measures for problem gamblers to get self excluded from clubs and gaming rooms - but people don't let that stop them and neither will this.

Clubs don't give much back, saints leagues gave what 2.2 to the football club, but inside is like a f**king casino, there is nothing to do there except play the pokies. Would be the same amount of pokies as tradies, and a friend who works at tradies has told me on some weekends they have a million dollar turn over on them.

This is absolutely crap... Don't give much back? Here is a list of beneficiaries from Wentworthville Leagues Club:

Afghani Hassanian Youth Association
Amputee Focus Group
Baulkham Hills Parramatta Holroyd Migrant Resource Centre
Bears of Hope
Benny Cuschieri Fundraiser
Beresford Public School
Blacktown Boys’ High School
Buttons & Bows
C.H.I.L.D
Cassia Community Centre
Charities Aid Foundation (Timehelp Project)
Churches of Wentworthville
Cittadini
Cumberland and Nepean Softball Association
DADHC
Darcy Rd Public School P&C
William Rose School
Genista Aged Care Facility
Granville Men’s Shed
Greystanes Little Athletics
Greystanes Public School P&C
Holroyd City Council - Various Community Initiatives
Inspire
Kids West
Learning Links
Lions Club of Winston Hills
Luo Community Association of Australia Inc.
Maltese Cultural Association of NSW
Maltese Past Pupils of Don Bosco
Masonicare
Men of League Foundation Limited
Merrylands/Holroyd Family day Care
Metella Road Public School
Mitchell District Women Bowling Association
Myeloma Foundation of Australia
Neighbourhood Watch
Northcott Disability Services
NSW Cancer Council
NSW Justices
NSW Pensioners Association
Our Lady of Mt Carmel Primary School P&C
Our Lady Queen of Peace Festa
Our Lady Queen of Peace Parish Pre-School
Our Lady Queen of Peace Primary School P&C
Parramatta District Rugby League Referees Association
Pioneers - Living and Learning Services for adults with disabilities
Push and Power Sports
Red Cross - Wentworthville Branch
Ronald McDonald House
Royal Institute for Deaf and Blind Children
RPA Hospital Liver Disease and Research Unit
Seven Hills Toongabbie RSL Jazz Ballet
Siberian Husky Club
Skye Lee Armstrong
St Anthony’s School
St Pauls Catholic College
Starlight
Technical Aid to the Disabled
The Ceroc and Modern Jive Dance Company
The Millennium Foundation
Toongabbie Girl Guides
Toongabbie Legal Centre
Toongabbie Public School
Tracks for Transplant
Variety Club
Wentworthville Public School
Wentworthville Youth Services
Wenty Wheelkings
Westmead Hospital
Wheelchair Sports NSW

And note - that doesn't include the money to the Football Club or the Junior League Club... Perhaps you would like to tell these community groups that clubs don't give much. If this is a leagues club for a non-NRL team - imagine what the NRL team clubs give!

Clubs like to justify their poker machine greed by giving back 5 or 10% back to the community, all bs imo.

You don't know anything.

 

[God-King Dean]

I love how he just puts this stuff out there, but does not provide any diatribe on the actual policy itself.

Nor does he show exactly WHY this would be bad for clubs nationally, just puts out an 'emotional rebuke'

Honestly, look at the whole issue this way:
if clubs can only provide funding because of pokies, then that's a sad indictment on the clubs themselves.




Uh huh - and those casual players bring in SOOOOO much money for the clubs don't they....


Face the facts, of the alleged 5million people who play the pokies, 60,000 (3%) are 'problem gamblers'. I'd love to see a % of how much 'gambling income' that 3% brings in for the clubs. The fact they're up in arms about the debate suggests it'd be a very large slice.

If you've never seen the way families are totally ruined by problem gambling, then you are not in a position to comment on this issue.
Any club that is dependant on sucking the life out of 60 000 families each and every year DESERVES to die. Bunch of disgraceful merkins.
Clubs that aren't dependant on predatory behaviour upon the weak will certainly survive and find new ways to thrive.


End of story.

Are you geniused?

 

[cleary89]

Now the issue here is you gambling when you were 17, and that you were drunk.... Funny that many let this go through to the keeper. You go on later to say that you weren't a 'problem gambler' - then why use this as an example...

Yet I was allowed to get drunk at caringbah inn, win my money and cash it out all while being 17. Fair enough personal responsibility and what ever, but the point I was making was this would help people like me... Not why I put money into pokies.

People will suffer, clubs pour a lot of money into the community - and for every person who can't be bother to sign up for a card more money is taken out of the community.

Despite this, there are already measures for problem gamblers to get self excluded from clubs and gaming rooms - but people don't let that stop them and neither will this.

I'd love to actually see the numbers of people who wouldn't sign up for a card because they can't be bothered. If its as easy as what they are making out it to be, I can't imagine it to be any. The measures are rarely policed and enforced. I have self excluded from northies, but not once have they said anything while I played them or cashed out winnings.

This is absolutely crap... Don't give much back? Here is a list of beneficiaries from Wentworthville Leagues Club:

Afghani Hassanian Youth Association
Amputee Focus Group
Baulkham Hills Parramatta Holroyd Migrant Resource Centre
Bears of Hope
Benny Cuschieri Fundraiser
Beresford Public School
Blacktown Boys’ High School
Buttons & Bows
C.H.I.L.D
Cassia Community Centre
Charities Aid Foundation (Timehelp Project)
Churches of Wentworthville
Cittadini
Cumberland and Nepean Softball Association
DADHC
Darcy Rd Public School P&C
William Rose School
Genista Aged Care Facility
Granville Men’s Shed
Greystanes Little Athletics
Greystanes Public School P&C
Holroyd City Council - Various Community Initiatives
Inspire
Kids West
Learning Links
Lions Club of Winston Hills
Luo Community Association of Australia Inc.
Maltese Cultural Association of NSW
Maltese Past Pupils of Don Bosco
Masonicare
Men of League Foundation Limited
Merrylands/Holroyd Family day Care
Metella Road Public School
Mitchell District Women Bowling Association
Myeloma Foundation of Australia
Neighbourhood Watch
Northcott Disability Services
NSW Cancer Council
NSW Justices
NSW Pensioners Association
Our Lady of Mt Carmel Primary School P&C
Our Lady Queen of Peace Festa
Our Lady Queen of Peace Parish Pre-School
Our Lady Queen of Peace Primary School P&C
Parramatta District Rugby League Referees Association
Pioneers - Living and Learning Services for adults with disabilities
Push and Power Sports
Red Cross - Wentworthville Branch
Ronald McDonald House
Royal Institute for Deaf and Blind Children
RPA Hospital Liver Disease and Research Unit
Seven Hills Toongabbie RSL Jazz Ballet
Siberian Husky Club
Skye Lee Armstrong
St Anthony’s School
St Pauls Catholic College
Starlight
Technical Aid to the Disabled
The Ceroc and Modern Jive Dance Company
The Millennium Foundation
Toongabbie Girl Guides
Toongabbie Legal Centre
Toongabbie Public School
Tracks for Transplant
Variety Club
Wentworthville Public School
Wentworthville Youth Services
Wenty Wheelkings
Westmead Hospital
Wheelchair Sports NSW

And note - that doesn't include the money to the Football Club or the Junior League Club... Perhaps you would like to tell these community groups that clubs don't give much. If this is a leagues club for a non-NRL team - imagine what the NRL team clubs give!

Love to see a comparison of poker machine income v community spending.

You don't know anything.

Ok.

Last reply, not going to argue against people who already have minds made up. But as stated, it will help people such as myself so saying it won't do anything is bs.

 

[dogslife]

Love to see a comparison of poker machine income v community spending

Then you compare it to what community projects will receive after the legislation

 

[Cumberland Throw]

I would love to a comparison of revenue v donations of Australias top 100 companies.. Like CBA NAB Telstra etc.

They all give f**k all back to the community.. and still rob us blind

 

[HevyDevy]

Love to see a comparison of poker machine income v community spending.

Why? Do you expect them to give away all of their profit?

 

[Frailty]

Yet I was allowed to get drunk at caringbah inn, win my money and cash it out all while being 17. Fair enough personal responsibility and what ever, but the point I was making was this would help people like me... Not why I put money into pokies.

It would help people like you - who you said yourself wasn't a problem gambler... So it's not helping what it says it will. Meanwhile reducing amount of money spent on the community - why protect the small minority of the community to punish the rest of it?

I'd love to actually see the numbers of people who wouldn't sign up for a card because they can't be bothered. If its as easy as what they are making out it to be, I can't imagine it to be any

You want numbers on something that doesn't exist? Whilst we are using anecdotal evidence to support your case, we will use to support this one. I wouldnt. I don't like playing the machines, and I rarely do it - but if I had to get a card with my name on it that was also on a computer database that I then had to set amounts every time I played. I wouldn't do it. Now would clubs have all this information with all these cards, or would I need a card for each club. It is an extra barrier in the way of freedom.

The measures are rarely policed and enforced. I have self excluded from northies, but not once have they said anything while I played them or cashed out winnings.

Having worked at a club previously, on the door - I know that it is well policed at most establishments. Not you used Northies which is a local pub that gives nothing to the community - I agree pubs need extra measures to reduce pokies - but not clubs that give to the environment.

Love to see a comparison of poker machine income v community spending.

Well add this on top of employee pay and benefits, entertainment held for the community, food and beverage outlets for the community, and then take out the pokie tax...

Wentworthville Leagues Club in 2010 would have more than doubled their profit had they not given to the community through 'donations'. But let's forget that fact the club employees people, provides entertainment to the community, and provides a cheap place to eat for the community.

Ok.

Last reply, not going to argue against people who already have minds made up. But as stated, it will help people such as myself so saying it won't do anything is bs.

It won't do anything for what it is designed to do. Thus it is being introduced on a false premise.

 

[Herzog]

We all know Gus is great mates with Allan Jones--not too surprised with his opinion. I disagree, but hey, that's life.

 

[bluey]

And for the record Cleary, I will never support any policy that impinges upon personal liberties no matter who proposes it.

Agreed

 

[bluey]

Simple way to fix it, Just make the pokies pay out more.
Would you have to pay for the card??
It reeks of over governing

 

[Sgt. Kabukiman]

Funny that the only people against it are liberal supporters.

Agree with hooch, I went to a 'casino' in serbia, 5 poker machines. No where else has them like we do, amazing going out in europe and not seeing one at all.

Which party encouraged pubs and clubs in NSW to install so many pokies? I'll give you a clue, it wasn't the Libs ;-)

And really, if you openly dislike wasting your money on pokies, yet can't prevent yourself from playing them without resorting to a bizarre policy like this, you're an idiot.

 

[Usain Bolt]

Im in NZ and dont care if that helps

 

[HevyDevy]

Im in NZ and dont care if that helps

It does, cheers.

 

[Herzog]

Which party encouraged pubs and clubs in NSW to install so many pokies? I'll give you a clue, it wasn't the Libs ;-)

And really, if you openly dislike wasting your money on pokies, yet can't prevent yourself from playing them without resorting to a bizarre policy like this, you're an idiot.

I agree, it was a bizarre policy for NSW Labor to introduce--allowing the number of poker machines in pubs and clubs.

 

[Charles Bronson]

ban em nationwide (except for casinos)

 

[hineyrulz]

Well mate, I've had a gambling problem myself in the past (pokies) and I see this legislation as absolutely insane. A gambler will always find a way to gamble. But what about the guy that likes to relax on a Friday afternoon and put $50 in the pokies while having a couple of beers? What about the group of pensioners that gather at the club once a week to socialise and have a flutter? It is these people that contribute the majority of poker machine income and it is these people that will be negatively impacted buy this legislation.

I know for a FACT that the only person that can stop a problem gambler from gambling is themselves. This legislation will impact upon everyone except the people it is supposedly aimed at.

Couldn't agree more, why punish the people who like a have a flutter and enjoy playing them??? The country is being governed for the minority's f**k the silent majority.

 

[oldmancraigy]

Funny that you care so much about those 60,000 families, but don't care about all the community sports and charities that would fall apart because a club going under - or the employees of the club... I don't know the exact numbers, but I would suggest that this would be a far greater number than the 60,000 families you are throwing around.

Community work sacrifice?!?!

Who ever said that.

The clubs are crying poor that the only way they can make a crust is by feasting on the weak.
Bullcrap.

Clubs can certainly make a crust without any gambling machines - they used to do it just fine. It shouldn't at all affect the people they employ. It MIGHT mean that they can't pump as much money into junior sports, but that's seriously overstated.
There's plenty of sporting teams which survive just fine without pokies backing them up in anyway whatsoever.


Oh - and reforming the WAY people gamble doesn't at all STOP them from gambling, it only limits the people who are destroying their families AND the so called casual gambler.
The casual gambler would contribute VERY LITTLE to gambling income if they gamble so infrequently that they can't sing up for the system. So that's a negligible loss.


If they can't break even without predatory behaviour upon the weak, then they really do need to shut down and leave it to those who can.