Will Nathan Cleary surpass Andrew Johns as the greatest ever halfback to play the game?

[roofromoz]

Let him become the greatest halfback to play for PENRITH first before judging him.

Is he better than either Alexander or Gower was at 23? Gower may be a difficult one as he was probably more a hooker until after Rodwell left.

 

[Smug Panther]

Let him become the greatest halfback to play for PENRITH first before judging him.

Is he better than either Alexander or Gower was at 23? Gower may be a difficult one as he was probably more a hooker until after Rodwell left.

He's better than Gower. I'm very confident in that

 

[mozza91]

If he keeps making 5 errors a game he’ll have trouble surpassing Luke Walsh.

 

[soc123_au]

If he keeps making 5 errors a game he’ll have trouble surpassing Luke Walsh.

He got past Walsh the first time he attempted a tackle.

 

[THE CHAMP]

Johns was an outstanding halfback no doubt. But he only really dominated at State of Origin level occasionally. Don’t get me wrong when he did dominate it was awesome… but he wasn’t even the first choice halfback at times… eg Toovey was selected ahead of him.

If Cleary can steer the Blues to more series victories, and dominate Qld for the most part, he’s got a chance of bettering Johns. He was selected young, and with a few series under his belt… absolutely caned Qld this year. And was sorely missed in game 3… and we lost.

Like Captain Apollo said, it’s too early to assess but nonetheless a good topic to chew over.

You forgot to mention that kimmorley was also selected ahead of him

 

[edabomb]

The thing which will always hurt Cleary in this debate is that I've seen Great Walls that win more style points.

 

[THE CHAMP]

So he's surpassed Cronk, Stuart, Langer and JT already has he? wow...

Mate if he’s surpassed langer he’s surpassed johns

 

[Munky]

Mate if he’s surpassed langer he’s surpassed johns

Langer and Johns are pretty equal in regard to their fondness for tripping.

 

[Vic Mackey]

If he keeps making 5 errors a game he’ll have trouble surpassing Luke Walsh.

Mate the pressure of playing opposite Luke Brooks clearly got to him

 

[ColdWetPanther]

Mate the pressure of playing opposite Luke Brooks clearly got to him

Or the riddle of trying to unlock the WTs famous water-tight defence

(to be fair, the scramble the other day was top notch).

 

[Vic Mackey]

He also got them a spoon in 2005 by sucking up all their cap and then getting injured for half the season. Remember how he was going to union and the Knights asked the NRL for help keeping him?

I think the 2005 season shows just how good he was. Look at the Knights record:

Pre Joey:

1993- 9th
1994 - 10th

Joey Era:
1995 - 5th (Prelim)
96 - 9th
97 - Premiers
98 -2nd
99 -7th
00 -3rd (Prelim)
01 -Premiers
02 - 2nd (Johns injured in first semi final, lost both and bundled out)
03 -7th (Johns missed second half of season)
04 -10th (plays 3 games
05 -Last (misses most of the season, comes back and they win 8 of last 10, including 6 against team that finished in the 8)
06 -4th

After Joey:
15th
9th
7th
11th
8th
12th
7th
12th

etc

Basically it proves that whilst the team may have been OK, he is clearly the biggest influence on where they finish. They had one season where he missed most of it and finished last. Newcastle have had 21 seasons without Andrew Johns, they finished above 6th ONCE. With him they finished above that 7 times.

 

[Vic Mackey]

Someone did, but it wasn't me. Moyza had/has considerable talent. He might have gone close if not for preferring partying to training and rehab.

Froggy was too busy saying Bryce Cartwright would be better then SBW

 

[The_Frog]

Froggy was too busy saying Bryce Cartwright would be better then SBW

You need to lay off the turps old mate. I can remember the conversation now, and it was all about value for money, not who was better. It was just last year in fact when SBW was contemplating joining the Roosters. Did they get better value than Parra have got from Bryce this year?

 

[The_Frog]

03 -7th (Johns missed second half of season)

He played against us in round 19. I remember well him giving his team the rounds of the kitchen at fulltime after he'd been given a lesson in halfback play by Gower.

He was a genius when he was on, but he wasn't always on.

 

[Smug Panther]

The sad racist f**k has me on ignore but not all us Panther fans are as dumb as Froggy.

 

[Vic Mackey]

He played against us in round 19. I remember well him giving his team the rounds of the kitchen at fulltime after he'd been given a lesson in halfback play by Gower.

He was a genius when he was on, but he wasn't always on.

I suppose he gave him a lesson in the same way Luke Brooks gave Nathan a lesson at Magic Round in 2019

A broken clock and so on

 

[The_Frog]

I suppose he gave him a lesson in the same way Luke Brooks gave Nathan a lesson at Magic Round in 2019

A broken clock and so on

Won the Dally M but it hasn't been awarded yet.

 

[ColdWetPanther]

Froggy was too busy saying Bryce Cartwright would be better then SBW

SBW was the first Bryce Cartwright!!

 

[Munky]

Cartwright and Moylan are great examples of rating a player based on their perceived brilliance.

Both had absolutely mammoth theoretical ceilings and the ability to change a game in five minutes.

Problem is the game goes for eighty and the two of them weren't capable of playing the level they occasionally showed for that long. Cartwright particular could be soft in defence, I think Teddy back in his Tiger days went straight through him twice for breaks.

My current fave Panther is Yeo and watching him pull a defence out of shape every touch is great. Unlike Cartwright he has developed his game in a way that he never forces the pass and will do the hard run in the middle if nothing is on. He provides eighty minutes of top class play at a level which never waivers.

PENRITH

 

[Vee]

Johnathan Thurston was twice the ball player that Johns was

Edit: I'll double down and say Thurston is the greatest halfback of all time, I'll also say that these comparisons are ridiculous because there is nothing anyone can do to prove or disprove anyone's opinion. But no-one dominated the halfback position for as long as Thurston did

As a Cowboys fan, I don't have him in Joey's class, just a shade behind with Sterlo, Alf et al.