World Cup 2022 discussion

[BxTom]

Back when Ennis was playing for the Dragons a bloke I knew who was a Saints fan said he was frustrating to watch as he would try to score on every play.

I feel Grant is the same. Doesn't seem to understand building and maintaining momentum is more important than the hero play.

I thought that Priddis got a bit that way in the last year of playing for us. Kept trying to replicate his GF heroics and quite often early in the tackle count. Broke our momentum and let the pressure off many times.

 

[Murraymob1]

Luia if he has a strong game in the final is also in line for the golden boot .Samoa would have to win for him to get it but that would upset a few rival fans especially silverdale lol

 

[martielang]

Actually thought Cleary controlled the game v NZ. Wasn’t a stand out performance but what was needed.

Id hate to have to put a $$$ value on Crichton. Makes some poor decisions/attempts at times but in the big moments not sure there’s anyone better in the game atm. Still bloody young too.

 

[mxlegend99]

Actually thought Cleary controlled the game v NZ. Wasn’t a stand out performance but what was needed.

Id hate to have to put a $$$ value on Crichton. Makes some poor decisions/attempts at times but in the big moments not sure there’s anyone better in the game atm. Still bloody young too.

If DCE had put in that exact same performance they would say it was godly and marvel at how composed he was to grab a tight win in a game where the playmakers had very little room to move.

Somehow the vast majority of people think DCE's a big game player despite the fact that he has a very ordinary win rate and is far less successful at any level than Nathan Cleary. Winning for Australia is about as easy as it gets... yet against the nations that have a lot of NRL experience DCE has a 20% win rate. They say he should be the Australian 7 against Samoa because Cleary didn't do much. Yet DCE has won 1 from 4 against New Zealand and lost the only match against Tonga with an NRL quality team. DCE goes missing in tough games against tough teams. He didn't win the series for QLD. He was just good enough not to hold back Munster and Hunt.

The rules just get changed completely when judging what CLeary has done.

Cleary has won 60% of the Origin series he has played in over the last 5 years. The best of any active halfback.
Cleary has won played in the last 3 grand finals and won 2 of them.
Cleary has launched his Australian career with an undefeated start, not that it's exactly unexpected. But he has already won as many games as starting half against New Zealand as DCE has. 1 win. lol

He's not perfect. But there's no better half running around than him. None of those other "big game" players have been any more successful than him.

Origin win rates:
Cleary: 53.85% of games, 60% of series (all as starting half)
DCE: 52.63%, 40% of series against Cleary. His stats are boosted by a 75% win rate when on the bench through QLD's 8 in a row
Munster: 46.67% win rate, 40% of series against Cleary.

Finals win rates:
Cleary: 68.75%
Munster: 65%
Hughes: 55.56%
DCE: 44.4%

International win rates:
Cleary: 100%
Munster: 85.71% (His one loss being to Tonga with DCE at 7)
Hughes: 83.33%
DCE: 77.78% (boosted by his 6 wins as a benchie behind good halves)

I threw Hughes in because he's the other half people seem to rave about as being better than Cleary. Somehow all those guys with inferior win rates in big games are better big game players. Nevermind the fact they went missing a whole bunch of times completely. Or the fact Cleary has put on multiple MOTM performances in big games too.

Wow I got carried away with this. It's not even meant to be about talking up Cleary. Just about how ridiculous the double standards are with judging him against guys who have lost more big games than him.

 

[Smug Panther]

If DCE had put in that exact same performance they would say it was godly and marvel at how composed he was to grab a tight win in a game where the playmakers had very little room to move.

Somehow the vast majority of people think DCE's a big game player despite the fact that he has a very ordinary win rate and is far less successful at any level than Nathan Cleary. Winning for Australia is about as easy as it gets... yet against the nations that have a lot of NRL experience DCE has a 20% win rate. They say he should be the Australian 7 against Samoa because Cleary didn't do much. Yet DCE has won 1 from 4 against New Zealand and lost the only match against Tonga with an NRL quality team. DCE goes missing in tough games against tough teams. He didn't win the series for QLD. He was just good enough not to hold back Munster and Hunt.

The rules just get changed completely when judging what CLeary has done.

Cleary has won 60% of the Origin series he has played in over the last 5 years. The best of any active halfback.
Cleary has won played in the last 3 grand finals and won 2 of them.
Cleary has launched his Australian career with an undefeated start, not that it's exactly unexpected. But he has already won as many games as starting half against New Zealand as DCE has. 1 win. lol

He's not perfect. But there's no better half running around than him. None of those other "big game" players have been any more successful than him.

Origin win rates:
Cleary: 53.85% of games, 60% of series (all as starting half)
DCE: 52.63%, 40% of series against Cleary. His stats are boosted by a 75% win rate when on the bench through QLD's 8 in a row
Munster: 46.67% win rate, 40% of series against Cleary.

Finals win rates:
Cleary: 68.75%
Munster: 65%
Hughes: 55.56%
DCE: 44.4%

International win rates:
Cleary: 100%
Munster: 85.71% (His one loss being to Tonga with DCE at 7)
Hughes: 83.33%
DCE: 77.78% (boosted by his 6 wins as a benchie behind good halves)

I threw Hughes in because he's the other half people seem to rave about as being better than Cleary. Somehow all those guys with inferior win rates in big games are better big game players. Nevermind the fact they went missing a whole bunch of times completely. Or the fact Cleary has put on multiple MOTM performances in big games too.

Wow I got carried away with this. It's not even meant to be about talking up Cleary. Just about how ridiculous the double standards are with judging him against guys who have lost more big games than him.

f**k me this is a brilliant post. Are you single Mx? I want some

 

[ColdWetPanther]

If DCE had put in that exact same performance they would say it was godly and marvel at how composed he was to grab a tight win in a game where the playmakers had very little room to move.

Somehow the vast majority of people think DCE's a big game player despite the fact that he has a very ordinary win rate and is far less successful at any level than Nathan Cleary. Winning for Australia is about as easy as it gets... yet against the nations that have a lot of NRL experience DCE has a 20% win rate. They say he should be the Australian 7 against Samoa because Cleary didn't do much. Yet DCE has won 1 from 4 against New Zealand and lost the only match against Tonga with an NRL quality team. DCE goes missing in tough games against tough teams. He didn't win the series for QLD. He was just good enough not to hold back Munster and Hunt.

The rules just get changed completely when judging what CLeary has done.

Cleary has won 60% of the Origin series he has played in over the last 5 years. The best of any active halfback.
Cleary has won played in the last 3 grand finals and won 2 of them.
Cleary has launched his Australian career with an undefeated start, not that it's exactly unexpected. But he has already won as many games as starting half against New Zealand as DCE has. 1 win. lol

He's not perfect. But there's no better half running around than him. None of those other "big game" players have been any more successful than him.

Origin win rates:
Cleary: 53.85% of games, 60% of series (all as starting half)
DCE: 52.63%, 40% of series against Cleary. His stats are boosted by a 75% win rate when on the bench through QLD's 8 in a row
Munster: 46.67% win rate, 40% of series against Cleary.

Finals win rates:
Cleary: 68.75%
Munster: 65%
Hughes: 55.56%
DCE: 44.4%

International win rates:
Cleary: 100%
Munster: 85.71% (His one loss being to Tonga with DCE at 7)
Hughes: 83.33%
DCE: 77.78% (boosted by his 6 wins as a benchie behind good halves)

I threw Hughes in because he's the other half people seem to rave about as being better than Cleary. Somehow all those guys with inferior win rates in big games are better big game players. Nevermind the fact they went missing a whole bunch of times completely. Or the fact Cleary has put on multiple MOTM performances in big games too.

Wow I got carried away with this. It's not even meant to be about talking up Cleary. Just about how ridiculous the double standards are with judging him against guys who have lost more big games than him.

100%

 

[ColdWetPanther]

There has been a lot of talk about how close the semis have been and how that is wonderful. I disagree that the football in the semis has been awesome. Close; yes. Extremely physical; YES!! But the games have been very slow with players (from all teams) laying in the ruck and a skinny ten.

I think the player this has most impacted in the Australian team is Grant (in much the same way that similar conditions in SOO impact Cook). He likes to play what is in front of him and is amazing at it, and with faster play the balls he can play over the advantage line and put the opposition decision making under stress. But when the game is slow he just puts his teammates under pressure, particularly the option that the opposition thinks he is going to (generally the halfback) and particularly close to the try line.

I think Cleary has been fine during the comp; not Penrith finals good but controlling the game well enough in the first 80m of the field. The irony is that the what people have a go at Cleary about (that he can only play behind a dominant pack) is so far off the mark; the one thing Cleary could do with improving is finding a way to keep the scoreboard ticking over when he has a dominant pack but the conditions (be they physical or constructed by the ref) make scoring difficult.

 

[jane the pain]

 

[Kilkenny]

Has there ever been a greater turnaround in history In respect of Great Britain and Samoa.

 

[Fangs]

Has there ever been a greater turnaround in history In respect of Great Britain and Samoa.

With their alleged issues with the coach you'd think their campaign was over after game 1. A very impressive turn around.

 

[Smug Panther]

Has there ever been a greater turnaround in history In respect of Great Britain and Samoa.

Don't rope in Scotland and Wales into that display

 

[Kilkenny]

I’m not a fan of the ‘chocker’ narrative but perhaps if ever there was one then this may have been it.

 

[Munky]

To be fair to England they didn't get to play a bunch of jet lagged still hung over Panthers this morning.

 

[Kilkenny]

Only watched a three minute highlight reel, seemed like a decent contest, but can’t help feeling England must have bottled it really. Surely turned up expecting to go thru the motions and get a result. Regardless, fair play to Samoa, winners are grinners.

Don't think the Aussies will make the same mistake and it should be a comfortable win for the kangaroos.

 

[Iamback]

With their alleged issues with the coach you'd think their campaign was over after game 1. A very impressive turn around.

There was reasons behind the loss but they gave up pure and simple, Luai is right it was a wake up call

 

[Iamback]

I’m not a fan of the ‘chocker’ narrative but perhaps if ever there was one then this may have been it.

This 100% is it, Samoa had 12 players for a time and I don't think England scored
Sao's try was the softest you will see

 

[Iamback]

There has been a lot of talk about how close the semis have been and how that is wonderful. I disagree that the football in the semis has been awesome. Close; yes. Extremely physical; YES!! But the games have been very slow with players (from all teams) laying in the ruck and a skinny ten.

I think the player this has most impacted in the Australian team is Grant (in much the same way that similar conditions in SOO impact Cook). He likes to play what is in front of him and is amazing at it, and with faster play the balls he can play over the advantage line and put the opposition decision making under stress. But when the game is slow he just puts his teammates under pressure, particularly the option that the opposition thinks he is going to (generally the halfback) and particularly close to the try line.

I think Cleary has been fine during the comp; not Penrith finals good but controlling the game well enough in the first 80m of the field. The irony is that the what people have a go at Cleary about (that he can only play behind a dominant pack) is so far off the mark; the one thing Cleary could do with improving is finding a way to keep the scoreboard ticking over when he has a dominant pack but the conditions (be they physical or constructed by the ref) make scoring difficult.

That is the way RL goes, Comes to big games and ruck speed gets slower and just ordinary

As for Cleary, People know I like Stats to back up the eye test

1 try assist and 600 kick metres in a tight low scoring game is decent enough, That is the norm for big games like that. Very rarely does a side blow the other off the park

 

[Munky]

The thing that works against Cleary is that for whatever reason the rep teams are not built or coached around him.

Teddy seems to be the dominant player for NSW (becoming Gallen 2.0 as he slows down) and Grant just wants to play hero ball for Aus.

Tackles four and five should be all about getting the ball into position for a quick PTB with a blocker in position. Yeo and Edwards manage this brilliantly for Penrith.

For NSW and Australia Cleary just gets thrown the ball on the last expecting a miracle.

I do think he needs to adjust and stand a little deeper if the quick ruck isn't there to give himself some space, Soward was great at this.

Hopefully in 2023 the entire game plan for NSW is built around Panther Ball which requires every player to know their role in kick return sets (actually know their role at all times on the field).

 

[Iamback]

The thing that works against Cleary is that for whatever reason the rep teams are not built or coached around him.

Teddy seems to be the dominant player for NSW (becoming Gallen 2.0 as he slows down) and Grant just wants to play hero ball for Aus.

Tackles four and five should be all about getting the ball into position for a quick PTB with a blocker in position. Yeo and Edwards manage this brilliantly for Penrith.

For NSW and Australia Cleary just gets thrown the ball on the last expecting a miracle.

I do think he needs to adjust and stand a little deeper if the quick ruck isn't there to give himself some space, Soward was great at this.

Hopefully in 2023 the entire game plan for NSW is built around Panther Ball which requires every player to know their role in kick return sets (actually know their role at all times on the field).

Soon enough Teams will copy us, That is what happens to successful teams. So naturally it should flow to the rep teams

 

[Munky]

Soon enough Teams will copy us, That is what happens to successful teams. So naturally it should flow to the rep teams

Cowboys tried it this year.

Notably failed against Souths in the regular season and Parra in the prelim.

They attempted to play field position and back their defence. However they were wet tissue paper rather than a brick wall.

The Chad is not Nathan.

That said they might be a little closer next year.