What's new
The Front Row Forums

Register a free account today to become a member of the world's largest Rugby League discussion forum! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

World Cup

screeny

Bench
Messages
3,984
Mr_Ugly said:
Wow! Thanks for the info James -- you're a deadset legend!

BTW, should that read Scotland, Ireland, Wales and RUSSIA???

I suppose that puts a big dent in Lebanon's chances of qualifying, unless the NSWRL players can get out of a weekend for their clubs. Those Sydney siders amongst you, tell me what are the rules governing NSWRL players and contracts, will the clubs let players head to Europe for qualifiers or are they as intransigent as the NRL clubs?

Geez, heading to Europe twice in a year will be a big ask for the lebanese-Aussie players.

As far as I can see it, Russia are pretty screwed too. Their standards have been dropping by all accounts and they have no chance against the HNs and a half decent Lebo side.

So, depending on the draw the finals should feature France, Australia, NZ, England, PNG and two of Scotland, Wales or Ireland.
 

jvujosevic

Juniors
Messages
383
Mr_Ugly said:
Wow! Thanks for the info James -- you're a deadset legend!

BTW, should that read Scotland, Ireland, Wales and RUSSIA???

Thanks for support! But my name is't James, my name is Jovan, on English John.
 

Mr_Ugly

Juniors
Messages
825
Sorry about that. I thought I had seen your name as being "James" on your website ... my mistake!
 

jvujosevic

Juniors
Messages
383
Mr_Ugly said:
Sorry about that. I thought I had seen your name as being "James" on your website ... my mistake!
It's OK, no need to sorry for that:D. James Vukumirovic is Serbian origin and he is Serbian who lives in UK and he is SRL connection man in UK.
 

YANTO

Juniors
Messages
799
screeny said:
I suppose that puts a big dent in Lebanon's chances of qualifying, unless the NSWRL players can get out of a weekend for their clubs. Those Sydney siders amongst you, tell me what are the rules governing NSWRL players and contracts, will the clubs let players head to Europe for qualifiers or are they as intransigent as the NRL clubs?

Geez, heading to Europe twice in a year will be a big ask for the lebanese-Aussie players.

As far as I can see it, Russia are pretty screwed too. Their standards have been dropping by all accounts and they have no chance against the HNs and a half decent Lebo side.

So, depending on the draw the finals should feature France, Australia, NZ, England, PNG and two of Scotland, Wales or Ireland.

Ah well Screeny if they are serious then its gonna cost a heck of a lot of time and money.
We also have six proffesionals playing in england that have been identified as being born in Hollanbd or have Dutch parents but if the clubs wont release them what is the WC really about??
 

phonetic

Juniors
Messages
1,626
The RLIF needs to get serious about it make these clubs make these players available.

It would be nice if we could have 'International Weekends' as per soccer, but I don't think the RLIF has that kind of clout to demand such things of clubs, especially big clubs from England and NRL.

It comes down to how much or how little of a mickey mouse competition they are planning this world cup, and qualifiers to be. It's definitely hard to see NRL clubs releasing players for Euro Cup games.. but I think within Europe, every effort should be made to make sure these players can represent.
 

screeny

Bench
Messages
3,984
YANTO said:
Ah well Screeny if they are serious then its gonna cost a heck of a lot of time and money.
We also have six proffesionals playing in england that have been identified as being born in Hollanbd or have Dutch parents but if the clubs wont release them what is the WC really about??

I think the Aussie lebanese and lebanese-lebanese have proved that they're serious over the past five years.

Which players from England are you referring too Yanto? It would be ridiculous if the clubs don't release them, but the RLEF and RFL have zero power, I presume, to force them to do so. Do you know different.

If they're SL first team regulars you're talking about I can't see them being released, more's the pity.
 

hutch

First Grade
Messages
6,810
screeny said:
I totally agree, but we cannot debate the fact that Lebanon, possibly above any other nation outside Australia and NZ, will attract the most number of spectators in Sydney, and that's just good news for the tournament and int'l RL.

true, they would provide a heap of money, tv coverage and a unique atmosphere. we shall have to wait and see i suppose. may the best teams qualify!!!
 

brendothejet

First Grade
Messages
7,998
i think that it is fantastic that all these teams have a path to the cup.

I reckon the home nations (england exc) should be playing each other in a tri nations tourny, with seedings coming from the results of that.

Then the rest of europe play for 3 spots. The top 3 seeds match up agianst the HNs ina 6 nations with the top two gaining entry and 3rd place a challenge against the winner of West Indies/America and SA.
 

Mr_Ugly

Juniors
Messages
825
Oct/Nov – World Cup qualifying – Scotland, Ireland, Wales + 2/3 qualifiers from Euro Nations B

To repeat my question from a few days ago, has Russia been punted down to ENC B status? Anyone?

Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't ENC B the Georgia, Holland, Serbia thing (i.e. qualifiers for the ENC). Interesting if Russia has been dropped, but all of the HNs retained ... I would have thought that they would have an equally strong claim.

Maybe it was just an ommission, but it looks like something that was circilated by the RLIF / RLEF, and you wouldn't expect an omission like that.

Also, has anyone heard if France have pulled out of the ENC (weren't mentioned in the above report)?
 

bowes

Juniors
Messages
1,320
Mr_Ugly said:
To repeat my question from a few days ago, has Russia been punted down to ENC B status? Anyone?

Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't ENC B the Georgia, Holland, Serbia thing (i.e. qualifiers for the ENC). Interesting if Russia has been dropped, but all of the HNs retained ... I would have thought that they would have an equally strong claim.

Maybe it was just an ommission, but it looks like something that was circilated by the RLIF / RLEF, and you wouldn't expect an omission like that.

Also, has anyone heard if France have pulled out of the ENC (weren't mentioned in the above report)?

Why do Russia have an equally strong claim, the Home Nations put 50 on them easy. Not sure why everyone always overestimates the strength of Russia.

Yes, France have pulled out as it would be stupid for them to play in a qualification tournament when they've been given automatic qualification.
 

Mr_Ugly

Juniors
Messages
825
bowes said:
Why do Russia have an equally strong claim, the Home Nations put 50 on them easy. Not sure why everyone always overestimates the strength of Russia.

Yes, France have pulled out as it would be stupid for them to play in a qualification tournament when they've been given automatic qualification.


With respect to the home nations, I was thinking particularly about Scotland, although I did not want to point the finger at them, so to speak. However since you ask, here goes.

First off, I want to make clear that I mean no disrespect to the Scottish league, and I fully applaud and appreciate their efforts. However, I do not think that they are as strong domestically, and therefore as deserving (at least to my mind), as the Russians.

Until last season, it is my understanding that Scotland only had about 3 senior clubs in the entire country. In the 2005 season, this number increased to the current 6. However all of these 6 clubs struggled to field full sides in 2005, and a number of games were cancelled as a result (and I am not only referring to the Royal Scots no-show at the recent Challenge Cup preliminary round match).

Three of the 6 teams are, I believe, based around the security forces (Royal Scots Steelers, Moray Eels and the Fife Lions), and as such, security commitments take precidence over football ("sorry laddie ... yurr gunna havta find sumeone else to go to Iraq ... I've gotta rubgy match on"). As a result for example, Fife couldn't field a side when the G8 conference was held over there this year, and the Royal Scots regiment are currently in Iraq and hence cannot field a team.

Of the remaining 3 clubs, I understand that the Easterhouse Panthers had to call off games last year due to lack of player numbers, the Edinburgh Eagles struggled to field a full team at times (on at least one occassion, they could only field 8 players), and Clyde also apparently had problems with player shortages.

On top of this, it is my understanding that at times teams have turned up to play, but the games have been cancelled because of the lack of match officials (for insurance pruposes, I understand that the games cannot go ahead without qualified referees).

I will grant you that it is very difficult to know for sure what is happening on the ground in Scotland, and even harder to know what is going on in Russia, given that I live on a league-free island state on the opposite side of the globe. However, the impression that I get is that the Russians, although not without their problems, are considerably stronger in terms of their domestic game.

Scotland however has been fantastic in terms of providing touring sides, particularly to developing nations, and their efforts in this regard cannot be too highly commended. Perhaps it is this that got them their automatic ENC qualification (if so, I suppose that is reasonable).

Their greatest strength (and that of Wales and Ireland) in terms of representative football is that heaps of people have migrated from there to places where league (and union) is popular. As a result, they have a substantial base of players who qualify to wear their jumper, even though they never played in their domestic comp. Russia on the other hand, does not have this history of high levels of emmigration to league-playing nations, and so lacks the "external" player base. I don't think however, that this should be sufficient reason to see them punted from the ENC, while Scotland gets automatic entry

I suppose the benefit to Russia of this kind of set up, is that they will undoubtedly qualify for the ENC, and will get a few games under their belts whilst doing so.




As to the French involvement in the ENC, my understanding is that the ENC IS the WC qualifying tournament. The ENC is a competition with some history (dating back beyond its relatively recent revival), and was developing a degree of prestige and tradition in its own right. If France pull out (or are pushed out) because they don't "need" to qualify, then the tournament is nothing more than a WC qualifier. To me, that would be a pity. If the WC becomes a regular event say every 4 years, then that means that for 2 out of every 4 years, the competition would have little meaning. There is also the issue that I rasied earlier of France (and PNG) needing meaningful international competition, and plenty of it, prior to the WC. If they don't play the ENC, aren't in the tri-nations until 2009, and there are no european tours by Aust or NZ until after the world cup, then who are they going to play (... in a reinstated Med Cup perhaps???)
 

screeny

Bench
Messages
3,984
Fair comment about Scotland open age I suppose, but I was of the understanding that their schools development work is second to none in the HNs (after England, of course).

They teach RL in many, many schools in Scotland, especially Glasgow.
 

Mr_Ugly

Juniors
Messages
825
You may well be correct. As stated, I am just some noddy sitting in front of a computer on the other side of the world, so there is every likelihood that my impressions are either wrong, or at least incomplete.

Having said that, I do think that I am close to the mark with regard to the Scottish senior comp. Given that the ENC / WC are open age tournaments, I would have thought that this would be the most relevant competition. The junior development augers well for the 2012/2016 WCs however (yeah, so I'm an optimist).

Anyway, I'm not offended or opposed to Scotland getting direct entry to the ENC ... I just thought it was interesting that Russia may have dropped from a position of automatic entry to having to qualify (won't really know if this is the case for some weeks yet ... unless someone in the know decides to leak some more info).
 

YANTO

Juniors
Messages
799
screeny said:
I think the Aussie lebanese and lebanese-lebanese have proved that they're serious over the past five years.

Which players from England are you referring too Yanto? It would be ridiculous if the clubs don't release them, but the RLEF and RFL have zero power, I presume, to force them to do so. Do you know different.

If they're SL first team regulars you're talking about I can't see them being released, more's the pity.

Wasnt aimed at the Lebanese Screeny.
They are the exception to the norm of Sydney based nations.
I meant if the International Federation were serious.

We have one SL player.
One NL1 Player and 4 NL 2 players.
If everything goes to plan three of the NL 2 players meet in a club game on the provisional date of one of our fixtures.

Whilst on the subject of players what standard do Orara Valley Axemen play at?
Two guys with a Dutch father are playing there.
 

screeny

Bench
Messages
3,984
YANTO said:
Wasnt aimed at the Lebanese Screeny.
They are the exception to the norm of Sydney based nations.
I meant if the International Federation were serious.

We have one SL player.
One NL1 Player and 4 NL 2 players.
If everything goes to plan three of the NL 2 players meet in a club game on the provisional date of one of our fixtures.

Whilst on the subject of players what standard do Orara Valley Axemen play at?
Two guys with a Dutch father are playing there.

As a spokesperson of the Dutch RL, would you suggest that your organisation will officially invite those three NL2 players to join the Dutch squad for the qualifying game in question, even though they'll almost certainly be denied the chance to travel by their clubs?

And forgive the laziness, but who are the players?
 

YANTO

Juniors
Messages
799
screeny said:
As a spokesperson of the Dutch RL, would you suggest that your organisation will officially invite those three NL2 players to join the Dutch squad for the qualifying game in question, even though they'll almost certainly be denied the chance to travel by their clubs?

And forgive the laziness, but who are the players?

This is one of the questions that will be asked at the RLEF in february.
But yes the NNRLB will be asking the clubs about their availability.

The Euro Nations is organised in October so the question of releasing players does not arise.
For the newer countries to have any chance of raising their standards they have to have the same access to players as GB or Aussie and especially the lower nations like Wales,Ireland and Scotland.
With a small pool to pick from the players with professional experience are vital to raise the standards of the local players.

Regarding naming the players I would rather wait until THEY confirm their interest in playing .
 

Copa

Bench
Messages
4,969
YANTO said:
This is one of the questions that will be asked at the RLEF in february.
But yes the NNRLB will be asking the clubs about their availability.

The Euro Nations is organised in October so the question of releasing players does not arise.
For the newer countries to have any chance of raising their standards they have to have the same access to players as GB or Aussie and especially the lower nations like Wales,Ireland and Scotland.
With a small pool to pick from the players with professional experience are vital to raise the standards of the local players.

Regarding naming the players I would rather wait until THEY confirm their interest in playing .
The Netherlands for the World Cup final 2008!!!!!
 

brendothejet

First Grade
Messages
7,998
hey if they had a SL player, A NL1 player and 4 NL3 players in their team they could make it.

it would be a f**king tough ask but they could.
 

screeny

Bench
Messages
3,984
The qualifiers may be in October but Holland will be in the pre qualifiers won't they, which are slap bang in the middle of the season in Britain, so that's when permission will be denied.

If you get to the final pool stages then there shouldn't be a problem with availability. No NL2 side is going to try and stop their players from playing WC matches, and the same can be said for the vast, vast majority of SL sides too.

The SL players have responded well in the last few years to representing the HNs, even if it meant - and it always has - playing in front of poor crowds, sometimes in dodgy grounds (such as in Ireland).
 
Top