WWE NXT Superthread **Spoilers**

[Big Pete]

Who became real stars from the original ECW outside of that company?

 

[Moffo]

Wasn't ECW a third rate company that attracted the exact same kind of dropkicks?

That right there told me all I needed to know. You didn't watch the show.

That was the list of WCW/ECW guys who did something at the E.

:lol:

if you were in ECW you could wrestle. how much ECW did you watch exactly? they were far from dropkicks when it came to wrestling ability. you should do yourself a favour and go watch some of the dvd's.

WWECW was the dumping ground for the gronks that they didn't want to use in raw/smackdown. i watched enough of it to realise it was dog turd and then turned it off

big difference

 

[Moffo]

Who became real stars from the original ECW outside of that company?

wtf? a lot of the guys on your list had careers before ECW. You do realise that, right?

 

[Big Pete]

if you were in ECW you could wrestle

Really? Are you sure about that? Van Dam could do a bunch of flips, but he could barely wrestle hell, ask him to sell in the ring and he'd look at you dumb founded. Same goes for his buddy Sabu. Do you consider what Sandman could do wrestling? New Jack? Tommy Dreamer? Geez give me a break.

how much ECW did you watch exactly?

The Rise and Fall of ECW, ECW Bloodsports, Eddie Guerrero's DVD, Chris Benoit's dvd, Rob Van Dam's dvd, Mick Foley's dvd, ECW Guilty As Charged 1999 and select YouTube video's. Couple that in when following it thanks to WoW wrestling mag in the late 90's to it's demise and I'd say I had a fair idea of what the company was about.

WWECW was the dumping ground for the gronks that they didn't want to use in raw/smackdown

The original ECW roster was made up of rejects from the WWE and WCW.

wtf? a lot of the guys on your list had careers before ECW. You do realise that, right?

Yes but a lot of them either started with WCW and developed their characters there or were considered 'WCW' talents as opposed to the measly little stints they had in ECW.

Only the Dudley Boyz and Rob Van Dam can be considered.

 

[Misanthrope]

nly the Dudley Boyz and Rob Van Dam can be considered.

I call bullsh*t. Colossal, steaming pile of bullsh*t. Of your list earlier, the vast majority honed their crafts and became who they were because of ECW - not because of any stint in WCW. Stone Cold, Mankind, Benoit, Guerrero, Mysterio, RVD, Dudleys, Mike Awesome, Lance Storm, and Tajiri owe a lot of their careers to ECW.

Sure, they might have started somewhere else and achieved greatness somewhere else - but you're flat out wrong if you think that ECW didn't play a massive part in their success. Where did Austin first unleash some personality? Where did Foley become the hardcore legend? Which company gave guys like Mysterio, Guerrero, and Benoit their breaks into the big leagues?

Hell, where did the WWE's much vaunted 'Attitude Era' get its foundations? It sure as hell wasn't WCW's traditional style they were 'borrowing'.

 

[Big Pete]

I call bullsh*t. Colossal, steaming pile of bullsh*t. Of your list earlier, the vast majority honed their crafts and became who they were because of ECW - not because of any stint in WCW. Stone Cold, Mankind, Benoit, Guerrero, Mysterio, RVD, Dudleys, Mike Awesome, Lance Storm, and Tajiri owe a lot of their careers to ECW.

Stone Cold's entire ECW run was based on WCW.

Same goes to Mankind who was already established in WCW.

What do Benoit and Guerrero owe? Given WCW's relationship with Japanese wrestling federation they established and their own talents they would've joined at some point and gotten over.

Mysterio spent what? A month or two on ECW? Please, Mysterio was always going to go to WCW and become massive.

Awesome was never a star outside of ECW.

Storm was never a star in ECW. WCW made him one of their top guys.

RVD and Dudleyz are a given. The WWE better utilised Tajiri.

Sure, they might have started somewhere else and achieved greatness somewhere else - but you're flat out wrong if you think that ECW didn't play a massive part in their success. Where did Austin first unleash some personality? Where did Foley become the hardcore legend? Which company gave guys like Mysterio, Guerrero, and Benoit their breaks into the big leagues?

A massive overstatement more than likely.

Austin: On WCW with Pillman.

Foley: Japan with Terry Funk.

Mysterio, Benoit and Guerrero got their real breaks on in WCW. It's where they became somebodies apart from mere members of a roster.

Hell, where did the WWE's much vaunted 'Attitude Era' get its foundations? It sure as hell wasn't WCW's traditional style they were 'borrowing'.

What does that have to do with making superstars?

WWE borrowed a lot from WCW. 'Hello Degeneration X'.

 

[Manurewa_Marlins]

^^^One word. Raven.

 

[Big Pete]

Where was he a star?

He never reached amazing heights in either WCW or WWE. I wouldn't consider TNA either given it was fairly bush league.

It's a shame though, he was such a good character.

 

[Misanthrope]

Austin: On WCW with Pillman.

You didn't see much of his WCW run, did you? He didn't do much of anything character wise. It was letting loose against WCW as an ECW star that he started to make waves.

As for the Mexican, Canadian, and Japanese (or Japan based workers) - they wouldn't have been on the radar if it hadn't been for Heyman's penchant for finding something new. Luchadores and the like came to WCW (and later, WWE) because Heyman went out and tracked them down and brought them to the United States. And yes, a lot of them were bigger in other companies or didn't last long, but if Heyman hadn't been out tracking down great technical workers or high flyers - those who followed wouldn't have had that pathway.

It was signing up luchadores and technically sound guys like Benoit/Storm/Jericho that brought them to the fore and made them marketable. With a few notable exceptions (Hart, HBK, Steamboat), the vast majority of pro wrestlers prior to the ECW/Attitude Era/nWo era were more about power and/or charisma.

Now, I don't believe that ECW was entirely responsible for the change, but it had a lot to do with bringing those talents into the public eye and, through that, the eyes of promoters such as Bischoff and McMahon.

To say 'Mysterio/Foley would have made it across eventually' is debatable. If Heyman hadn't been out tracking down luchadores and technically proficient guys, whose to say Mysterio would have ever made it up out of Mexico? If the demand hadn't been lifted by the likes of Psicosis and Juventud and Super Crazy, would the cruiserweight thing ever have really taken off? Nobody can say, but I'm pretty confident of the fact ECW was a big part of that.

 

[Manurewa_Marlins]

Don't get me wrong he never main evented WCW. But don't for one second think that he wasnt a star. Between 1997 and 1998, Raven was maaaaasivly over. His fued with DDP was f**king brilliant.

I wouldn't consider TNA either given it was fairly bush league.

So we're picking and choosing are we?

Oh, and Austin WAS over big time in WCW. He was in line for a huge push, except Bischoff didnt see him in his long term 'vision'. Went to ECW, got edgy, went to WWF, floundered a bit, before being given a chance to shine and blowing up bigtime. Not too unlike CM Punk's recent run.

Misterio and Psicosis prrrobably would have cracked it, WCW were running their Cruiserweight Division at the time, and actually featured the two mentioned on their "When Worlds Collide" pay per view, Misterio known then as Colibri. However, Heyman knew the guys would draw for the smarks, so ECW gave them their "kickstart" if you will.

Benoit was over big time in Japan and fitted WCW's style, so that was inevitable. However, ECW gave him and Malenko their kickstarts too.

Saturn was maaaasivly over in ECW as one half of the Eliminators.

Bam Bam Bigelow is another guy.

WWF dropped the ball with Taz and to a lesser degree, Van Dam.

 

[Misanthrope]

God, the WWF/E use of Tazz was atrocious. All the potential in the world, one big debut feud, and then they had NFI.

 

[Big Pete]

You didn't see much of his WCW run, did you? He didn't do much of anything character wise. It was letting loose against WCW as an ECW star that he started to make waves.

I suppose we should forget his US, TV and Tag Team Title runs? Again he was a WCW star before he was an ECW 'star'.

As for the Mexican, Canadian, and Japanese (or Japan based workers) - they wouldn't have been on the radar if it hadn't been for Heyman's penchant for finding something new. Luchadores and the like came to WCW (and later, WWE) because Heyman went out and tracked them down and brought them to the United States. And yes, a lot of them were bigger in other companies or didn't last long, but if Heyman hadn't been out tracking down great technical workers or high flyers - those who followed wouldn't have had that pathway.

ECW or not, they would've ended up in WCW. He just didn't flick on ECW with his pen and paper like you'd lead many to believe, he started relationships with Mexican organisations and Japenese organisations who basically provided WCW with those talents you listed.

To say 'Mysterio/Foley would have made it across eventually' is debatable. If Heyman hadn't been out tracking down luchadores and technically proficient guys, whose to say Mysterio would have ever made it up out of Mexico? If the demand hadn't been lifted by the likes of Psicosis and Juventud and Super Crazy, would the cruiserweight thing ever have really taken off? Nobody can say, but I'm pretty confident of the fact ECW was a big part of that.

Foley was already over given his relationship with JR from WCW.

Konnan would've made sure of it, he was the head booker of AAA when he signed with WCW and gave Bischoff all the access he could get to the luchadores.

Don't get me wrong he never main evented WCW. But don't for one second think that he wasnt a star. Between 1997 and 1998, Raven was maaaaasivly over. His fued with DDP was f**king brilliant.

I wouldn't really call him a star though. I was maybe being a little too liberal by including Tajiri but Raven had that initial run and then nothing came of it when he gave up his US Title to Goldberg shortly after finally winning it. After that, there was nothing else to report and flounder. He never main evented and never became a real name in WCW.

Bam Bam Bigelow is another guy.

Was a WWE guy before he came to ECW. He never made it big after his ECW run.

WWF dropped the ball with Taz and to a lesser degree, Van Dam

Amen on the Taz front. His in-ring debut was massive, sadly the E could never follow it up.

Van Dam got a good run. He kept screwing up.

 

[Moffo]

God, the WWF/E use of Tazz was atrocious. All the potential in the world, one big debut feud, and then they had NFI.

agree, i remember jizzing my pants when tazz debuted at the royal rumble. he got f**ked over there and has ever since. so disappointing

 

[Moffo]

I suppose we should forget his US, TV and Tag Team Title runs? Again he was a WCW star before he was an ECW 'star'.



ECW or not, they would've ended up in WCW. He just didn't flick on ECW with his pen and paper like you'd lead many to believe, he started relationships with Mexican organisations and Japenese organisations who basically provided WCW with those talents you listed.



Foley was already over given his relationship with JR from WCW.

Konnan would've made sure of it, he was the head booker of AAA when he signed with WCW and gave Bischoff all the access he could get to the luchadores.



I wouldn't really call him a star though. I was maybe being a little too liberal by including Tajiri but Raven had that initial run and then nothing came of it when he gave up his US Title to Goldberg shortly after finally winning it. After that, there was nothing else to report and flounder. He never main evented and never became a real name in WCW.



Was a WWE guy before he came to ECW. He never made it big after his ECW run.



Amen on the Taz front. His in-ring debut was massive, sadly the E could never follow it up.

Van Dam got a good run. He kept screwing up.

bullsh*t. van dams character was hacked to pieces by the WWE. they eventually gave him a run but it was too late by that stage, he was over it

 

[Big Pete]

bullsh*t. van dams character was hacked to pieces by the WWE. they eventually gave him a run but it was too late by that stage, he was over it

:? What character?

 

[Moffo]

Really? Are you sure about that? Van Dam could do a bunch of flips, but he could barely wrestle hell, ask him to sell in the ring and he'd look at you dumb founded. Same goes for his buddy Sabu. Do you consider what Sandman could do wrestling? New Jack? Tommy Dreamer? Geez give me a break.



The Rise and Fall of ECW, ECW Bloodsports, Eddie Guerrero's DVD, Chris Benoit's dvd, Rob Van Dam's dvd, Mick Foley's dvd, ECW Guilty As Charged 1999 and select YouTube video's. Couple that in when following it thanks to WoW wrestling mag in the late 90's to it's demise and I'd say I had a fair idea of what the company was about.



The original ECW roster was made up of rejects from the WWE and WCW.



Yes but a lot of them either started with WCW and developed their characters there or were considered 'WCW' talents as opposed to the measly little stints they had in ECW.

Only the Dudley Boyz and Rob Van Dam can be considered.

van dam couldn't wrestle? you must be on drugs. have you seen his match against lynn at the last N2R? tell me he can't wrestle after watching that. he wasn't the greater seller in the world but he wasn't that bad.

so you watched one ECW PPV and a number of specials. OK, well....excuse me if i suggest that perhaps you don't know what you are talking about

your point about WCW wrestlers is odd...people like benoit and guerrero were well over before they went into WCW

 

[Moffo]

:? What character?

WHOLE f**kING SHOW

MR MONDAY NIGHT

seriously, the level of interaction he used to have with the fans was taken away in the WWE. He used to have to rush his matches.....not do some of his moves. it sucked arse from day one

f**k the WWE i hate it

 

[Big Pete]

van dam couldn't wrestle? you must be on drugs. have you seen his match against lynn at the last N2R? tell me he can't wrestle after watching that. he wasn't the greater seller in the world but he wasn't that bad.

No he couldn't wrestle a lick. His matches relied heavily on high spots and were often very botchy.

so you watched one ECW PPV and a number of specials. OK, well....excuse me if i suggest that perhaps you don't know what you are talking about

Let's compare notes then.

your point about WCW wrestlers is odd...people like benoit and guerrero were well over before they went into WCW

No they weren't. Maybe around the Indies and world wide but they became certified talents when they made the cross over to WCW.

 

[Big Pete]

WHOLE f**kING SHOW

MR MONDAY NIGHT

seriously, the level of interaction he used to have with the fans was taken away in the WWE. He used to have to rush his matches.....not do some of his moves. it sucked arse from day one

f**k the WWE i hate it

They still used those monickers.

What do you remember of him interacting with the crowd in ECW? It was still the exact same thing, 'R V D'.

He utilised most of his arsenal and it got boring after two years, that was essentially the crux of it.

 

[Moffo]

No he couldn't wrestle a lick. His matches relied heavily on high spots and were often very botchy.



Let's compare notes then.



No they weren't. Maybe around the Indies and world wide but they became certified talents when they made the cross over to WCW.

oh bollocks. sure he did the van terminator/daminator but he also did a lot in the ring. he might have lost a stride in the WWE but that was because he got screwed around/was a few years older

certified talents? hahaha...so they wern't talents before WCW? you are kidding yourself