Zac Lomax

[Redhoopz]

Yeah I was disappointed with his last interview where he was basically saying he could play on this year anywhere in the backline. True, but at what level & at what cost to the team's performance & the retention of our juniors?
Just seemed a tad selfish & he'll lose skin in the long run. True champions know when to quit on top.
A short sighted management decision yet again IMHO.

I've got no problem with anything he said. I'd rather hear Nighty be confident and back himself to the media. I'm sure he will have no issues stepping aside when the time is right. I'd prefer to see youngster in his position, but Nighty's earn't the right to start at least the first couple of games. From there it's up to the coach to pick players in form and drop the under performers

 

[Slippery Morris]

Nobody knows what happens at training. If Nighty is still keeping up with the juniors then why drop him purely just because of his age. Obviously he is still putting in and can keep up. Unless these juniors are running rings around him and he looks past it you would tap him on the shoulder. Plus Nighty would also feel like he is letting the team down if his training is so far behind what the juniors are showing and getting picked because of his age. The guy loves the club as he has proven and I am sure he will do what is best for the club.

 

[RufusRex]

Nobody knows what happens at training. If Nighty is still keeping up with the juniors then why drop him purely just because of his age. Obviously he is still putting in and can keep up. Unless these juniors are running rings around him and he looks past it you would tap him on the shoulder. Plus Nighty would also feel like he is letting the team down if his training is so far behind what the juniors are showing and getting picked because of his age. The guy loves the club as he has proven and I am sure he will do what is best for the club.

Because he cant keep up. He cost us games last year though lack of pace in both attack/defence, poor positioning, less safe under the high ball and generally not competing. Not one try scored by him couldn't have been scored by any other winger. A great example is the Melbourne game ... Positioned well to score three tries where he basically caught the ball and fell over ... But absolutely schooled by big/fast outside backs.

He scored the tries that should have been scored but allowed the tries that shouldn't have been scored in that game.

Also, he no longer scores the try perhaps should have been stopped. Doggies game mid season 1st half, game in balance he gets an opportunity. A fast strong winger pins the ears and scores in the corner. Nighty no longer scores those tries, we lost the opportunity and the game turned.

 

[Dragon66]

How about we go looking for the "Nighty's Seen Better Days" post elsewhere.

I thought this was a Zac Lomax thread. I've long been a Nighty supporter, as are most on this forum, but I thought he played as well outside of Lafai last year.

I know there were no length of the field tries from him BUT he also didn't many, if any, opportunities because of the "Power Game".
How often was the ball spread quickly to the edges in our half last season. RARELY.

Now with Hunt, Widdop and Dufty together we may see the ball spread more often this season, so I'm willing to give Nighty the benefit of the doubt and judge him once he has the opportunity to at least have some chance of evading the defence with some skill ball play from the inside players. He may be past it but I hope that's not the case.

 

[Dennis Papaioannou]

Because he cant keep up. He cost us games last year though lack of pace in both attack/defence, poor positioning, less safe under the high ball and generally not competing. Not one try scored by him couldn't have been scored by any other winger. A great example is the Melbourne game ... Positioned well to score three tries where he basically caught the ball and fell over ... But absolutely schooled by big/fast outside backs.

He scored the tries that should have been scored but allowed the tries that shouldn't have been scored in that game.

Also, he no longer scores the try perhaps should have been stopped. Doggies game mid season 1st half, game in balance he gets an opportunity. A fast strong winger pins the ears and scores in the corner. Nighty no longer scores those tries, we lost the opportunity and the game turned.

What a load of BS!
The guy scored 16 "fall over" tries? - wake up.
Nightingale is a proven finisher and I dispute that it is a simple matter of cut and paste any player in the same position would have scored all those tries.
"Schooled by big/fast outside backs" - Are you talking about Radradra and Vinavalu?
They schooled most of their opposite numbers during the last couple of seasons so why pick on Nightingale?
You conveniently forget the work he does out of our defensive third.
The diffusion of umpteen bombs and his contribution to the team in general.
I agree with most on this Forum that Nightingale is at the end of his career but I am not prepared to write him off as some sort of passenger that is dragging the team down.
I am also not prepared to disrespect him as player who has worn the big Red V with distinction - like you have in this post.

 

[RufusRex]

well ... live in the past of 2010 and the glories of a great nightingale and ignore that he is keeping one of Lomax/Mann out of the starting line up (getting the thread back on track). His time is up. He is past it. We will lose games we should win if he is selected in 2017.

Lomax and Mann must start 2017 with Lafai/Nene.

 

[Dennis Papaioannou]

well ... live in the past of 2010 and the glories of a great nightingale and ignore that he is keeping one of Lomax/Mann out of the starting line up (getting the thread back on track). His time is up. He is past it. We will lose games we should win if he is selected in 2017.

Lomax and Mann must start 2017 with Lafai/Nene.

I respect the past, I don't live in it.
I do not select the team and, like you, I would prefer to see Lomax/Mann get more game time.
McGregor had plenty of opportunities to make changes and displace Nightingale - he chose not to do it. Instead played him as a stop gap fullback when Dugan was injured.
So your ire at Nightingale's selection should be aimed at McGregor not Nightingale.
I also disagree that Nightingale is some kind of liability that will lose us games.
No more than Widdop's inability to close out tight games.

 

[RufusRex]

I respect the past, I don't live in it.
I do not select the team and, like you, I would prefer to see Lomax/Mann get more game time.
McGregor had plenty of opportunities to make changes and displace Nightingale - he chose not to do it. Instead played him as a stop gap fullback when Dugan was injured.
So your ire at Nightingale's selection should be aimed at McGregor not Nightingale.
I also disagree that Nightingale is some kind of liability that will lose us games.
No more than Widdop's inability to close out tight games.

of course its Mary's fault ...

 

[Crush]

well ... live in the past of 2010 and the glories of a great nightingale and ignore that he is keeping one of Lomax/Mann out of the starting line up (getting the thread back on track). His time is up. He is past it. We will lose games we should win if he is selected in 2017.

Lomax and Mann must start 2017 with Lafai/Nene.

You are living in the past literally.
Its 2018 not 2017

 

[Dennis Papaioannou]

of course its Mary's fault ...

Of course

 

[Dragon66]

The worst, or best position, in a team is to play on the wing.

So much of what happens inside that position dictates how good a season a winger has.

The Melbourne wingers look like world beaters because the had exceptional players, Smith,Cronk and Slater, and a perfectly coached outfit to provide space and time for the finishers.

Radradra is the exception - a truly special attacking machine.

Last year our backline performed, thanks to Widdop, much better than in 2016, but still a long way short of a lot of other sides.
For Nightingale to cross for 16 tries last season is no mean feat, and I don't go for the "fell over the line" stuff. The NRL's too tough for players to just fall over the line. McDonald only got 6.

Whether Lomax or Mann should be on the wing will depend on how good their form is during the early part of the season, but for mine, the season has to start with Nightingale.

 

[epDragon62]

The worst, or best position, in a team is to play on the wing.

So much of what happens inside that position dictates how good a season a winger has.

The Melbourne wingers look like world beaters because the had exceptional players, Smith,Cronk and Slater, and a perfectly coached outfit to provide space and time for the finishers.

Radradra is the exception - a truly special attacking machine.

Last year our backline performed, thanks to Widdop, much better than in 2016, but still a long way short of a lot of other sides.
For Nightingale to cross for 16 tries last season is no mean feat, and I don't go for the "fell over the line" stuff. The NRL's too tough for players to just fall over the line. McDonald only got 6.

Whether Lomax or Mann should be on the wing will depend on how good their form is during the early part of the season, but for mine, the season has to start with Nightingale.

I can live with Nighty starting off the season. It is interesting that Hunt/Aitken indicate they expect Nighty on the right side where he played in 2010...

All I ask is that he doesn’t retain the position just because he is the great Nighty.

 

[possm]

The worst, or best position, in a team is to play on the wing.

So much of what happens inside that position dictates how good a season a winger has.

The Melbourne wingers look like world beaters because the had exceptional players, Smith,Cronk and Slater, and a perfectly coached outfit to provide space and time for the finishers.

Radradra is the exception - a truly special attacking machine.

Last year our backline performed, thanks to Widdop, much better than in 2016, but still a long way short of a lot of other sides.
For Nightingale to cross for 16 tries last season is no mean feat, and I don't go for the "fell over the line" stuff. The NRL's too tough for players to just fall over the line. McDonald only got 6.

Whether Lomax or Mann should be on the wing will depend on how good their form is during the early part of the season, but for mine, the season has to start with Nightingale.

What worries me is that blind loyalty becomes a higher priority than a winning formular. It has to be said that the poor form and lack of speed of our wingers last year was a huge problem especially at the back end of the season when our forward pack were fatigued battered and injured. Selecting the same two wingers in first grade rewards them for poor form and blunts the opportunity to introduce much needed speed into our backline.

 

[BennyV]

Can anyone point to a try that Flo scored that couldn’t be scored by literally any other winger in the comp?

He had 2 of the best attacking weapons in the comp inside him (in their positions) with a combined offload, LBA and TA rate higher than any other edge in the comp. If we had Mann or Nene on the left wing with Flo on the right, our try tally on that edge would have been higher.

 

[True_Believer]

Can anyone point to a try that Flo scored that couldn’t be scored by literally any other winger in the comp?

He had 2 of the best attacking weapons in the comp inside him (in their positions) with a combined offload, LBA and TA rate higher than any other edge in the comp. If we had Mann or Nene on the left wing with Flo on the right, our try tally on that edge would have been higher.

I guess the same question can be asked about the tries that he didn't score that could definitely be scored by another winger? We talk about tries that were missed by him, but nobody actually provides examples of when it happened. The discussion makes it sound like he missed at least 2 opportunities each game and could only score if he was standing 1 metre from the line.

I recorded all games last year and am slowly working my way through them again. I'm not watching them in any particular order but have watched 1/2 of them so far - I've only seen 1 try so far that could possibly have been scored by someone a little faster (vs the Broncos), but that could also be debateable given the scrambling defense of the Broncos.

 

[RufusRex]

TrueBeliever ...

From memory ... First doggies game in the season ... near half time ... we are up 2-0 .. Nighty gets the ball maybe 20-30 out in space but instead of having a crack at the corner he cuts in and is easily tackled. Unsure if a bloke like Vunivalo scores it but i think it would have been close.

We ended up losing 16-2 but it was fairly pivotal .. at that point we were on top and they were ready to be broken. However they held their line and used that more than what we didnt in the 2nd half. We would have been disappointed being 2-0 .. they woudl have been exstatic being 2-0 down.

 

[True_Believer]

TrueBeliever ...

From memory ... First doggies game in the season ... near half time ... we are up 2-0 .. Nighty gets the ball maybe 20-30 out in space but instead of having a crack at the corner he cuts in and is easily tackled. Unsure if a bloke like Vunivalo scores it but i think it would have been close.

We ended up losing 16-2 but it was fairly pivotal .. at that point we were on top and they were ready to be broken. However they held their line and used that more than what we didnt in the 2nd half. We would have been disappointed being 2-0 .. they woudl have been exstatic being 2-0 down.

I don't believe I've watched the Dogs game yet. I'll keep an eye out for it. So he was 20-30 out from their line?

 

[RufusRex]

i think so .. maybe closer.

 

[BennyV]

I guess the same question can be asked about the tries that he didn't score that could definitely be scored by another winger? We talk about tries that were missed by him, but nobody actually provides examples of when it happened. The discussion makes it sound like he missed at least 2 opportunities each game and could only score if he was standing 1 metre from the line.

I recorded all games last year and am slowly working my way through them again. I'm not watching them in any particular order but have watched 1/2 of them so far - I've only seen 1 try so far that could possibly have been scored by someone a little faster (vs the Broncos), but that could also be debateable given the scrambling defense of the Broncos.

Let me know if there are any tries he scored that were particularly difficult (or couldnt have been scored by another winger).

In terms of those missed, the big one that stands out was against Dogs in RD 26 - put into space by Lafai and was run down by Chase f**king Stanley, despite having a 5-10m start on him.

 

[LINESPEED]

Let me know if there are any tries he scored that were particularly difficult (or couldnt have been scored by another winger).

In terms of those missed, the big one that stands out was against Dogs in RD 26 - put into space by Lafai and was run down by Chase f**king Stanley, despite having a 5-10m start on him.

As long as they score more than they concede - as a rule of thumb it seems to work
For example the Storm wingers scored 42 tries and conceded 37 and they won the comp.
Our young guns like Lomax, Field, Dufty & Garrick will score more than they concede initially through inexperience - & I too am wondering if Nighty had a positive ratio.