Building the next NZ team

[İzmir Zaferi]

Ok, it seems like the other thread about NZ has become the domain of children bickering over whether a new NRL team would 'crush Rugby Union' or not. The simply reality is that is not the goal of a new team, the goal of a new team is simply to bring positive to the NRL and to Rugby League as a whole in a number of metrics ultimately including finance, viewers, players etc. A new NRL team in NZ just wants a slice of the pie and in actual fact to help grow the pie even if it does not 'take' from an alternative code / team / competition.

So. Instead of arguing about nothing or whether it is better or not then Perth or other bids.

What bid groups appear to be out there? (There is talk from Wellington and there is a South Island group I know of)
What shape could a new NZ team take and why?
Why is your proposed shape better than other options?
What approach to branding do you think is needed?
What benefit could a new NZ team bring to the NRL and to the wider game of Rugby League?

Are there additional layers in expansion that need be considered when talking about a new NZ NRL team?

A note, an expansion forum like this should take it's eyes of 18th or not given the NRL has spoken clearly about moving to 20. There is a discussion in there in regard to priority but alot of it has simply been bicking so lets keep this chat on track.

 

[Matiunz]

NZ defina

Ok, it seems like the other thread about NZ has become the domain of children bickering over whether a new NRL team would 'crush Rugby Union' or not. The simply reality is that is not the goal of a new team, the goal of a new team is simply to bring positive to the NRL and to Rugby League as a whole in a number of metrics ultimately including finance, viewers, players etc. A new NRL team in NZ just wants a slice of the pie and in actual fact to help grow the pie even if it does not 'take' from an alternative code / team / competition.

So. Instead of arguing about nothing or whether it is better or not then Perth or other bids.

What bid groups appear to be out there? (There is talk from Wellington and there is a South Island group I know of)
What shape could a new NZ team take and why?
Why is your proposed shape better than other options?
What approach to branding do you think is needed?
What benefit could a new NZ team bring to the NRL and to the wider game of Rugby League?

Are there additional layers in expansion that need be considered when talking about a new NZ NRL team?

A note, an expansion forum like this should take its eyes of 18th or not given the NRL has spoken clearly about moving to 20. There is a discussion in there in regard to priority but alot of it has simply been bicking so let’s keep this chat on track.

NZ could definitely benefit from a second team, would hopefully give the Warriors a bit of a wake up to do better also having some local competition.
The big hurdle you’d have is where to base it, Wellington and Christchurch both have solid claims without either being a clear obvious choice and unfortunately the distance between the cities makes it tough to factor in a combined effort.
Couple of Pros/Cons for each
Wellington, strong region historically but the sport is in a bit of decline of late.
Access to a larger population base of around 3.5m albeit with some blurring of borders with Warriors
Being the capital would have better access to corporate sponsors.
Stadium although in a great central location is oval and loses its atmosphere when not full
Wellington can be a bit fickle with their support and support will die off quickly if it isn’t successful.

Christchurch is also strong region historically, second only to Auckland.
Brand new covered rectangular stadium
Locals are pretty parochial with their teams but supporter base maxes out just over 1m
Already a VERY strong and well supported Union team that might make it a harder market to crack.

League is pretty poorly run in NZ at present so would need significant support and assistance from the NRL to improve the standard of local comps and access in schools to be competitive

 

[Perth Red]

At the moment there is only one publicly active group saying they’d like to bid for a license. called the South Island NRL bid they are led by Tony Kidd and made up of club representatives from the South Island RL regions.

Not sure if its a nod to their intended colours but their current brand graphic is green and black colours.

South Island NRL Bid Limited

www.sinrlbid.co.nz

there has been no word from Chalmers on the Wellington orcas bid plan since Oct 2021.

 

[The Great Dane]

NZ defina

NZ could definitely benefit from a second team, would hopefully give the Warriors a bit of a wake up to do better also having some local competition.
The big hurdle you’d have is where to base it, Wellington and Christchurch both have solid claims without either being a clear obvious choice and unfortunately the distance between the cities makes it tough to factor in a combined effort.
Couple of Pros/Cons for each
Wellington, strong region historically but the sport is in a bit of decline of late.
Access to a larger population base of around 3.5m albeit with some blurring of borders with Warriors
Being the capital would have better access to corporate sponsors.
Stadium although in a great central location is oval and loses its atmosphere when not full
Wellington can be a bit fickle with their support and support will die off quickly if it isn’t successful.

Christchurch is also strong region historically, second only to Auckland.
Brand new covered rectangular stadium
Locals are pretty parochial with their teams but supporter base maxes out just over 1m
Already a VERY strong and well supported Union team that might make it a harder market to crack.

League is pretty poorly run in NZ at present so would need significant support and assistance from the NRL to improve the standard of local comps and access in schools to be competitive

I wouldn't touch Wellington unless a new rectangular stadium is part of the deal. The Cake Tin is the embodiment of arse cancer in stadium form for rectangular sports, and Wellington doesn't have the best reputation as a sporting city to begin with.

A second NRL side could get by just on poaching talent from Union's system and topping the team up with journey men at least initially as well. I'm sure there're more than a few Kiwi's plying their trade over here who would jump at the chance to move back across the ditch if it was possible. If I was the NRL I'd step in and make sure they sign a household name or two for their inaugural team as well, even if that meant some form of one off cap dispensation to get the ball rolling.

 

[The Great Dane]

At the moment there is only one publicly active group saying they’d like to bid for a license. called the South Island NRL bid they are led by Tony Kidd and made up of club representatives from the South Island RL regions.

Not sure if its a nod to their intended colours but their current brand graphic is green and black colours.

View attachment 83766

South Island NRL Bid Limited

www.sinrlbid.co.nz

there has been no word from Chalmers on the Wellington orcas bid plan since Oct 2021.

I honestly think that NZ is the market that could most benefit from the NRL launching the new team in house, you know AFL or WSW style.

That'd give them complete control over the club's set up, the ability to underwrite it's start up costs, and to set some basic KPI's and targets and enforce them directly.

If things go well they can sell it on to new owners once it's reasonably well established, if not they're already in hand and they don't have to worry about ownership issues on top of everything else.

 

[blue bags]

Next NZ team Will be the Pasifika Bear's
Building a rivalry between the nz warriors

 

[Marlins]

I like the idea of a 2nd side and maybe in the future a 3rd side. Obviously the two main markets are Wellington & Christchurch. At this point in time I’d definitely go with the South Island bid. Mainly to create a north vs south rivalry, similar to what the Broncos and NQLD have. Also Christchurch is getting a brand new rectangular stadium, why not choose that over an another bloody oval. The other factor being TV rights. $200m over 5 years is what we have atm, a significant increase over the former. With two NZ sides and potentially Sydney teams taking games to other regions of NZ, you could practically have a NZ game played at 8pm every Friday of the year, while also helping the poor crowd wise 6pm slot in AUS. With any luck a FTA broadcaster in NZ picks up on this and has a go at sky/newscorp for the rights. A 2nd NZ club for the 28’ rights and beyond could easily double what we have now if a FTA broadcaster has a go. Not to mention the bigger exposure the NRL will get. On top of this having a team on the South Island will attract a lot my Juniors in the region and those pesky Union players that are good, but might not make the All blacks, having a team right there paying arguably more the Union. It’d be mighty attractive to make the switch. All you need would be a couple of bigger names and more would surely follow.

 

[Canard]

There has been some seemingly quite rightful concerns from NZ locals, that the NRL scheduling of Warriors games often clashes with big Union games (something I had never thought about before as an Aussie and a non-Union fan), which detracts from there audience.

So whilst the 6pm Australian timezone is great for us East Coasters, I assume its not ideal for NZ and clashes with Union? (I say this not really knowing when most NZ games are scheduled)

 

[Perth Red]

There has been some seemingly quite rightful concerns from NZ locals, that the NRL scheduling of Warriors games often clashes with big Union games (something I had never thought about before as an Aussie and a non-Union fan), which detracts from there audience.

So whilst the 6pm Australian timezone is great for us East Coasters, I assume its not ideal for NZ and clashes with Union? (I say this not really knowing when most NZ games are scheduled)

I guess thats one of the pay offs for inclusion, they fill the 6pm slot nicely. Maybe when we have 2, or even 3 clubs that would be shared more and less of an issue.

 

[Matiunz]

There has been some seemingly quite rightful concerns from NZ locals, that the NRL scheduling of Warriors games often clashes with big Union games (something I had never thought about before as an Aussie and a non-Union fan), which detracts from there audience.

So whilst the 6pm Australian timezone is great for us East Coasters, I assume it’s not ideal for NZ and clashes with Union? (I say this not really knowing when most NZ games are scheduled)

There’s a 7pm(NZ)/5pm(AU) game each Friday for the super rugby season, about half of the 15rounds has a NZ derby.
It’s not too hard to watch one delayed

 

[The Great Dane]

There has been some seemingly quite rightful concerns from NZ locals, that the NRL scheduling of Warriors games often clashes with big Union games (something I had never thought about before as an Aussie and a non-Union fan), which detracts from there audience.

So whilst the 6pm Australian timezone is great for us East Coasters, I assume its not ideal for NZ and clashes with Union? (I say this not really knowing when most NZ games are scheduled)

Competition is just the nature of doing business.

 

[Chins get the wins]

Competition is just the nature of doing business.

And we have the far better product

 

[Perth Red]

I wouldn't touch Wellington unless a new rectangular stadium is part of the deal. The Cake Tin is the embodiment of arse cancer in stadium form for rectangular sports, and Wellington doesn't have the best reputation as a sporting city to begin with.

Thast probably the location dilema. Wellington seemingly has the better population, corporate base and Rl base to make it work but no stadium, Christchurch has the amazing stadium but probably lacks in those areas and is a Union strong hold. I think on balance of viability Wellington probably still ticks more boxes?

 

[flippikat]

Thast probably the location dilema. Wellington seemingly has the better population, corporate base and Rl base to make it work but no stadium, Christchurch has the amazing stadium but probably lacks in those areas and is a Union strong hold. I think on balance of viability Wellington probably still ticks more boxes?

It's a tough call between Christchurch and Wellington.

I'm slightly inclined to say Christchurch, based on their new stadium, the "North Island v South Island" angle, a bigger & better sporting record and culture (Wellington is more an arts city than a sports city), and the rusted-in Auckland v Canterbury (province) rivalry that plays strongly across ALL codes.

The three downsides to Christchurch (and ways Wellington could get the spot) as I see it are:
A) The Crusaders. In the winter months, they suck up a LOT of the media attention & support. Tough to muscle-in on that space - whereas the Hurricanes are often "lovable losers" who bomb-out in the playoffs - if they get to the playoffs.

B) Corporates. I'm pretty sure Wellington has it over Christchurch in the pool of corporate dollars available.

C) Satellite cities & towns. While population comparison between Canterbury region & Wellington region is slanted towards Canterbury, Wellington is well served by electrified commuter rail to Waikanae, Johnsonville & Upper Hutt - and the railway lines converge in Wellington right next to the stadium - an easy option for fans to get to and from games.

As far as colours go, the red & black that's traditional for Christchurch/Canterbury teams in all sports would be reasonably distinctive in the NRL, and Wellington's traditional gold & black would be even more distinctive... BUT does an NRL side want to use the traditional (Provincial) colours & risk alienating out-of-province fans.. or add a colour or two (how the Warriors added red & greed to Auckland's traditional blue & white) OR go for something neutral like green & black?

 

[Perth Red]

As far as colours go, the red & black that's traditional for Christchurch/Canterbury teams in all sports would be reasonably distinctive in the NRL, and Wellington's traditional gold & black would be even more distinctive... BUT does an NRL side want to use the traditional (Provincial) colours & risk alienating out-of-province fans.. or add a colour or two (how the Warriors added red & greed to Auckland's traditional blue & white) OR go for something neutral like green & black?

As long as warriors stick with their new old brand, then black and green could work very well for a new NZ club. even throwing in some wellington gold could work.

 

[flippikat]

As long as warriors stick with their new old brand, then black and green could work very well for a new NZ club. even throwing in some wellington gold could work.

View attachment 83783

I really like that idea - black, gold & green has really good synergies with neighbouring regions' sports teams colours (across most codes) too..

- Manawatu (around Palmerston North) - green & white
- Taranaki (around New Plymouth) - amber & black
- Hawkes Bay (Napier/Hastings) - black & white
- Wairarapa (Masterton & surrounding towns) - green & red

So taking black, yellow & green pretty well represents the bottom of the North Island.

In fact, that's the colours of the "Central Districts" cricket team, which represents the bottom of the North Island minus Wellington (who have their own team)

 

[The Great Dane]

Thast probably the location dilema. Wellington seemingly has the better population, corporate base and Rl base to make it work but no stadium, Christchurch has the amazing stadium but probably lacks in those areas and is a Union strong hold. I think on balance of viability Wellington probably still ticks more boxes?

I'm not sure that Christchurch being a "RU stronghold" is as true as it may seem on the surface.

The Crusaders are the most successful SR side and they've never had any serious competition in the market either. Who knows what impact a well administered competitor with the backing to match them would have on the CC/Canterbury market, especially if the Crusaders started to struggle for results on the pitch. All of these arguments have been made about many markets as well, and it didn't do anything to stop e.g. the Storm and Swans from being successful.

Wellington on the other hand has a well documented history of fair weather fanbases across multiple sports, to the point that it's reputation is something akin to the GC's.

Look I'm not really for or against either market, in fact I think that both should have NRL sides given time. However both are going to be relatively risky markets to expand to, and the NRL needs to make sure all their ducks are in a row before they expand to either, and as far as I'm concerned Wellington is totally unworkable so long as the Cake Tin is the only stadium option in the city.

 

[The Great Dane]

As long as warriors stick with their new old brand, then black and green could work very well for a new NZ club. even throwing in some wellington gold could work.

View attachment 83783

I really like that idea - black, gold & green has really good synergies with neighbouring regions' sports teams colours (across most codes) too..

- Manawatu (around Palmerston North) - green & white
- Taranaki (around New Plymouth) - amber & black
- Hawkes Bay (Napier/Hastings) - black & white
- Wairarapa (Masterton & surrounding towns) - green & red

So taking black, yellow & green pretty well represents the bottom of the North Island.

In fact, that's the colours of the "Central Districts" cricket team, which represents the bottom of the North Island minus Wellington (who have their own team)

No team in the NRL should ever be allowed to be green and gold under any circumstances.

Black and gold/yellow would work fine. Jade, black, and silver/grey would work if somebody pinches black and gold first.

Anything that isn't dominant in blue or red and white should be workable, but the NRL should be pushing future teams towards shades of green, orange, purple, pink, and brown.

 

[flippikat]

Grey/silver and gold maybe.. perhaps with a little bit of black in the mix

 

[Matiunz]

Grey/silver and gold maybe.. perhaps with a little bit of black in the mix

Always thought Pounamu green and White/Black would work quite well as a ’neutral’ colour set- looks quite good in the Maori kits.