English lower leagues

[Sinman]

Leigh have signed Willie Tonga as well as a bunch of others.. I read somewhere that the Champianship salary cap was going up to close the gap. Is this true.. otherwise I cannot see how they could afford him and the rest that they have bought

 

[Dogs Of War]

Leigh have signed Willie Tonga as well as a bunch of others.. I read somewhere that the Champianship salary cap was going up to close the gap. Is this true.. otherwise I cannot see how they could afford him and the rest that they have bought

Your paying on what Willie Tonga brings to your team now, not what he could have brought to your team 10 years ago.

 

[langpark]

Your paying on what Willie Tonga brings to your team now, not what he could have brought to your team 10 years ago.

Plus Rangi Chase, Harrison Hansen and Cory Paterson. Starting to look like a Super League roster.

 

[CC_Roosters]

Leigh have signed Willie Tonga as well as a bunch of others.. I read somewhere that the Champianship salary cap was going up to close the gap. Is this true.. otherwise I cannot see how they could afford him and the rest that they have bought

I think leighs actions more or less forced the rfl to up the percentage of revenue allowed for wages. Otherwise it could have got embarrassing and nasty for all sides quickly. Problem is leigh should in theory be more competitive in the super 8's but the regular championship season will also be a cake walk in theory as i havent seen anythung close to this recruitment by other clubs.

But they are ambitious and can afford to do it aparently and shoudlnt be held back by those who cannot.

 

[roughyedspud]

The bubble will blow with leigh...it always does...they've got into the shit more than any club in recent history...


But it does highlight how much of a mess the RFL have made with the championship though...take us,oldham,if our wage bill is more than £200,000 i'll be shocked....yet leigh are gonna be hitting £1.2-1.3million

Its a joke

 

[nadera78]

The bubble will blow with leigh...it always does...they've got into the shit more than any club in recent history...


But it does highlight how much of a mess the RFL have made with the championship though...take us,oldham,if our wage bill is more than £200,000 i'll be shocked....yet leigh are gonna be hitting £1.2-1.3million

Its a joke

I've lost count of how many times Leigh have done this in the 22(ish) years I've been following RL. Put together a decent team, get ideas about themselves, throw some more money at it to recruit faded stars, upset the players already at the club, find they're not generating the additional revenue they expected, lose money, release faded stars on free transfers, sell promising players at knock down price, spend a year or two with no money and a poor team. And repeat.

The problem is they think they should be competing with Wigan, when they're simply not that big. They're a big Championship club, but a tiny SL one. They've never realised / accepted this.

 

[deal.with.it]

Is there a foreign quota for championship?

Willie Tonga has been playing for Catalans in the Elite 1 in recent weeks. I found that surprising but assumed Catalans 1st team wanted their moneys worth after his injury plagued season. Maybe he was just playing to keep fit until the Leigh deal was confirmed.

Agree with the above that Leigh need to accept their place.
Can you imagine SL in 20 years time... London, Newcastle, Leeds, Hull, Cardiff, Toulouse... Leigh?

The RFL really need to decide what they want the comps to look like in 10, 20 years.

 

[roughyedspud]

In other news...oldham RLFC are expected to announce their home ground for 2016 im the next 24-48hours....along with season ticket details

 

[langpark]

Agree with the above that Leigh need to accept their place.

I disagree with this completely. Yes, they are a tiny town and yes the odds are heavily stacked against them, but does that mean they should stop aiming high and settle for mediocre? If they were to do that, they'd be down in relegation contention immediately. They are where they are because of their determination and hunger to get back into Super League, which is what EVERY Championship and League One team should have as their ultimate goal. If not, I would suggest not even playing in the first place.

Can you imagine if a few years ago you'd told the Cowboys to 'accept their place' and stop striving for excellence? Because they're not as big of a city and Brisbane and Sydney!??!

 

[nadera78]

I disagree with this completely. Yes, they are a tiny town and yes the odds are heavily stacked against them, but does that mean they should stop aiming high and settle for mediocre? If they were to do that, they'd be down in relegation contention immediately. They are where they are because of their determination and hunger to get back into Super League, which is what EVERY Championship and League One team should have as their ultimate goal. If not, I would suggest not even playing in the first place.

Can you imagine if a few years ago you'd told the Cowboys to 'accept their place' and stop striving for excellence? Because they're not as big of a city and Brisbane and Sydney!??!

They are not comparable at all. The Cowboys don't go bust every few years chasing the other teams, for a start.

I'd never say Leigh (or any club) should "settle for mediocrity" but they have never shown any sense of realism. They build nicely for a few years, then they get all excited and spend money they don't have, only to find their crowds don't grow to anywhere near the levels they expect, and then go bust and have to start all over again. And all because they fetishise the once-a-decade opportunity to play Wigan.

 

[langpark]

They are not comparable at all. The Cowboys don't go bust every few years chasing the other teams, for a start.

I'd never say Leigh (or any club) should "settle for mediocrity" but they have never shown any sense of realism. They build nicely for a few years, then they get all excited and spend money they don't have, only to find their crowds don't grow to anywhere near the levels they expect, and then go bust and have to start all over again. And all because they fetishise the once-a-decade opportunity to play Wigan.

I've only been following English RL since 2004, so anything prior to that, I'll have to take your word for it.

But in those 11 years, off the top of my head I cannot remember them ever going bust or into administration. I think their journey over the last few years has been great and also steady at the same time. They got the new stadium, they showed ambition by bringing in some big signings recently (if they got the money, why not?). I'm sure every Leigh fan knows they are not capable of ever becoming a 'Wigan', but I'm sure most would hope/dream to be a long-term Super League team, even if they do struggle year after year. I cannot understand why it's realistic for say Wakefield, but not for Leigh.

Also, Leigh Miners Rangers' impressive season in some ways is also a sign that they are built on solid foundations and have good grassroots activity going on in the area.

Good luck to them.

 

[deal.with.it]

I've only been following English RL since 2004, so anything prior to that, I'll have to take your word for it.

But in those 11 years, off the top of my head I cannot remember them ever going bust or into administration. I think their journey over the last few years has been great and also steady at the same time. They got the new stadium, they showed ambition by bringing in some big signings recently (if they got the money, why not?). I'm sure every Leigh fan knows they are not capable of ever becoming a 'Wigan', but I'm sure most would hope/dream to be a long-term Super League team, even if they do struggle year after year. I cannot understand why it's realistic for say Wakefield, but not for Leigh.

Also, Leigh Miners Rangers' impressive season in some ways is also a sign that they are built on solid foundations and have good grassroots activity going on in the area.

Good luck to them.

Because it's not sustainable. They dont have the revenue because they dont have the population base. Same goes for a few SL clubs. The idea that every club should be aiming for SL is silly. It's not realistic, feasible for many clubs.

For SL's concern, will Leigh in SL increase media, sponsorship etc.? Of course not. But to get Toulouse. London or Newcastle in you've gotta give Leigh the same opportunity.
I just disagree with the idea that you can have an owner throw in stupid money and it's ok.

 

[langpark]

Because it's not sustainable. They dont have the revenue because they dont have the population base. Same goes for a few SL clubs. The idea that every club should be aiming for SL is silly. It's not realistic, feasible for many clubs.

For SL's concern, will Leigh in SL increase media, sponsorship etc.? Of course not. But to get Toulouse. London or Newcastle in you've gotta give Leigh the same opportunity.
I just disagree with the idea that you can have an owner throw in stupid money and it's ok.

I agree. I too, as a RL fan would rather see Toulouse and the bigger cities in SL. But if for example, Leigh are more ambitious, cashed-up and hungry for a spot in SL, then they deserve it more than London, Toulouse etc.

Put yourself in the Leigh's position for a moment. Say you're the coach or CEO. What exactly do you tell your players and fans? "Ok guys, now, we wanna be good, but not too good. Top half of the Championship table for the rest of our lives will do nicely." You watch how quickly they will spiral downward if they (or any club) stop aiming high.

I really cannot understand why Leigh are getting singled out for these kinds of comments. As far as I'm aware, there has been no talk of any financial instability there, so who are you to all say that it's unsustainable.

And regarding population, according to wiki, Leigh's population is 46,000 and Castleford's is only 39,000. Again, why do we pick on Leigh??

 

[Evil Homer]

Nobody is telling them to shut up shop, but the fact is that they are not suitable for a higher level than they are currently at. It's like Featherstone a few years ago, when clubs like this get ideas above their station and start making a lot of noise then it never turns out well, these clubs are ridiculously small-time, unprofessional operations and any progress they make is almost always built on foundations of sand. Leigh have scrapped their reserves and youth program for next year so that they can afford to sign these players. They don't have any chance of sustainable long-term success at a higher level, their one SL season in 2005 should tell you what their ceiling is.

 

[CC_Roosters]

Nobody is telling them to shut up shop, but the fact is that they are not suitable for a higher level than they are currently at. It's like Featherstone a few years ago, when clubs like this get ideas above their station and start making a lot of noise then it never turns out well, these clubs are ridiculously small-time, unprofessional operations and any progress they make is almost always built on foundations of sand. Leigh have scrapped their reserves and youth program for next year so that they can afford to sign these players. They don't have any chance of sustainable long-term success at a higher level, their one SL season in 2005 should tell you what their ceiling is.

That changs my opinion on this. Its like some administrators walk around with a loaded gun pointed at their own foot just waiting to make the next bad call. I do think that to an extent the league structure has allowed this to happen though as they have to close the gap somehow to compete in the suoer 8s. I imagine as big a club as bradford are they might have to throw around similar cash to acheive promotion. Only solution is more funding for that level but that requires more central revenue.

What are peoples thoughts on leagues of 10 with straight promotion and relegation?

 

[Evil Homer]

That changs my opinion on this. Its like some administrators walk around with a loaded gun pointed at their own foot just waiting to make the next bad call. I do think that to an extent the league structure has allowed this to happen though as they have to close the gap somehow to compete in the suoer 8s. I imagine as big a club as bradford are they might have to throw around similar cash to acheive promotion. Only solution is more funding for that level but that requires more central revenue.

What are peoples thoughts on leagues of 10 with straight promotion and relegation?

It's not really the fault of the system, it's more the fact that the people who run these clubs are often David Niu types - they have big ambitions, make huge promises and want instant success but in reality lack the knowledge, resources and capacity to achieve it. This would be the case under any system, if we want to have P&R then we need to acknowledge that it's always going to be a culture of boom and bust, a lot of clubs are never going to be stable and many will continue to bankrupt themselves over and over again.

 

[deal.with.it]

And regarding population, according to wiki, Leigh's population is 46,000 and Castleford's is only 39,000. Again, why do we pick on Leigh??

Fair call, but I'd suggest cas don't belong in SL.

It's tough. The system is ok. Ambitious clubs should be given the chance.
But sustainability, junior/reserve teams etc. should be minimum.
How much do you think the owner is throwing in? What happens if he walks away?
If a club owner throws in money for a new stadium etc that's ok. But to pay for players each year I don't agree with.

 

[Evil Homer]

Cas are an anomaly, they have been in SL since the competition began and were in the top division for a long time before that. They have been an established full-time club for 20 years and have been able to adapt to the massive changes in the sport without being left behind like others such as Halifax. The population of the town is irrelevant, Castleford is a much bigger club than Leigh.

 

[CC_Roosters]

Cas are an anomaly, they have been in SL since the competition began and were in the top division for a long time before that. They have been an established full-time club for 20 years and have been able to adapt to the massive changes in the sport without being left behind like others such as Halifax. The population of the town is irrelevant, Castleford is a much bigger club than Leigh.

Would you say that their focus on developing players has kept them in the giv league? They seeem like a smaller scale production line of players from afar.

I would still say that the split league structure makes this risky investment strategy more likely as otherwise they would get flogged so they have to close the gap somehow. But the curtting of reserves and youth is a no no, imo there should be stringent rules on membership of the professional leagues regarding spending on youth development etc....

The capability of clubs at the top and bottom of the first and second tiers are unbalanced in the extreme. If we had two tiers of 10 for national leagues with P&R then licensing for future entry into that structure from the 3rd tier that could that be a solution.

 

[roughyedspud]

subject to RFL approval ORLFC will play their home games a at stalybridge celtic gound "bower fold stadium"

suppose it'll do...