Excited for 2017

[MattoDragon]

Putting aside 'the coach' (who, most of us agrees with, is useless as breasts on a bovine), a strong indication of a team's success is its 'spine'.

Unfortunately the Dragons' is sadly lacking.

1. Dugan: injury prone and diminishing speed (the game is passing him by).

6. Widdop: a fine player sans confidence, who desperately needs a genuine mentor.

7. Hutchison: still unknown at this level but possesses a good kicking game.

9. McInnes: Souths' reject...and upgrade on Rein? Haha....Good one!

Unless this is strengthened, Saints will continue to flounder.

I agree........
1. Dugan - I couldn't agree more. Like it or lump it, I think we should give Kurt Mann a fair chance to prove himself (not two weeks). However, I also see huge potential with young Matt Dufty. We are paying a huge amount of our cap to Dugan and I just don't see the value. I'm not sure what we do with Dugan tbh..... Centre, Lock? I just don't know.
6. Widdop - again, couldn't agree more. I've read a lot of comments from others amongst us, who rip into Widdop. But I agree, he is playing without confidence and I think the captaincy weighs heavily on him. I also believe a capable coach would get the best out of him.
7. Hutchison - I firmly believe the kid has got talent. Again, he also needs a mentor. What Mary did to him, telling him he would play the Eels, then drop back to Cutters, to allow Benji a farewell, was the act of an inept coach. On the surface Hutch took it well, but it must have been a huge hit to his confidence and given him a feeling of betrayal by his coach.
9. McInnes - agreed, a rabbit reject, and certainly not an upgrade from Mitch Rein. Once again, I cannot see how a player like Rein could go from being a Country rep and a future candidate for origin, to being unwanted by his club (other than the money aspect). He was another playing without confidence. It showed throughout the season that he wasn't inspired.
As you said, we all agree the coach is a waste of space. However, it seems to me, he is the root cause of our demise. We have a good roster and one that could jag a top 8 spot. But a good roster needs a good coach, someone that not only gets the best from his players, but also knows where to direct them, what their best positions are, when to praise and when to drop. They need to inspire and give confidence. They need to be able to lead but also take advice and listen. They need to accept defeat and resolve the problems, not make pathetic excuses. We get none of this from McGregor.
Apart from a bit of tweaking, the team is quite strong. What we need is a proven first grade coach, because we ain't got one atm.

 

[deansykes]

Sorry to you too.

I really hate* this club.

*because I love it

Straight Shooter

No need for apologies my friend, I'm all for healthy banter!

 

[getsmarty]

Call me delusional or an optimist, but I'm really excited for 2017 and beyond.

The signings of Vaughan, McInnes, McDonald and Nona... Sims with a full preseason... No more Benji (though I wish him all the best) and Rein... I think there is hope there. Obviously held back by McBallsack and the board, but I really think the roster is heading in the right direction.

I don't think we'll witness amazing success, but fingers crossed JD gets his chance and we can see some positives on the horizon.

(Trying to shine a positive light on what has been an incredibly disappointing year).

Let bygones be bygones so they say... Up the dragons!!

Love your optimism Dean. Personally I just can't get my head around Mary being our coach again...and I use the Term "coach" in name only.

 

[The Doc]

Can i just say.... last year i ran into duges, before the knights game, and we had a chat.
I asked him if it really gets to him that fans constantly overlook all the good he does and pick on the "he cant pass" aspect.
He had a good laugh and said "tell them ill show them passing this weekend" and kept on laughing while walking away.
He chimed in nicely that game. Drew in defenders and set up 2 or 3 tries.
He can ball play, its just not his natural game.
Widdop can play also, if he was that bad bennett wouldnt have picked him.
Do we remember Soward? No one rated him, bennett came along, saw something, and next thing u know we had the form 5/8 of the comp for 2 years.
Hutch or Nona can both play.
And McInnes, the first time we chased him most were happy, saying he can play. And he can play!!!
The only fk up with all of this is the coach. Mary is not the man to excite me about 2017.
The team on paper is a team that can challenge top 4, but not with mary as coach.
The one thing that i look forward to is most players are contracted past 2017, mary wont be anywhere near our club in 2018, take that as fact.
No matter how well we do next year, i can assure you mary will not be coach in 2018.
And the youngsters coming through, they surely must give us all hope that with a new coach the future will be looking good.

 

[getsmarty]

Can i just say.... last year i ran into duges, before the knights game, and we had a chat.
I asked him if it really gets to him that fans constantly overlook all the good he does and pick on the "he cant pass" aspect.
He had a good laugh and said "tell them ill show them passing this weekend" and kept on laughing while walking away.
He chimed in nicely that game. Drew in defenders and set up 2 or 3 tries.
He can ball play, its just not his natural game.
Widdop can play also, if he was that bad bennett wouldnt have picked him.
Do we remember Soward? No one rated him, bennett came along, saw something, and next thing u know we had the form 5/8 of the comp for 2 years.
Hutch or Nona can both play.
And McInnes, the first time we chased him most were happy, saying he can play. And he can play!!!
The only fk up with all of this is the coach. Mary is not the man to excite me about 2017.
The team on paper is a team that can challenge top 4, but not with mary as coach.
The one thing that i look forward to is most players are contracted past 2017, mary wont be anywhere near our club in 2018, take that as fact.
No matter how well we do next year, i can assure you mary will not be coach in 2018.
And the youngsters coming through, they surely must give us all hope that with a new coach the future will be looking good.

Well said Doc...Agree 100%. really hope Mary is on his last year with us.

 

[Saints Forever]

Our playing squad was supposedly better in 2016 than in 2015.

Our squad is arguably better coming in to the 2017 season.

Right now the first grade squad is leaderless. No captain. No coach.

On paper we should finish mid table.

The challenge for the squad is to reach mid table in spite of Mary.

Am quietly optimistic that we are 6-8 games away from having a new coach appointed.

Will always support the playing roster that runs out in the big red V.

Gooooo the mighties !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Gareth67]

I apologise. Still feeling the effects of a long drinking session.

OV

I have finished wiping the tears away , you loveable old rogue .

 

[dragonreddy]

Top 4 team on paper ,I think not.

 

[dragonssamy61]

Our playing squad was supposedly better in 2016 than in 2015.

Our squad is arguably better coming in to the 2017 season.

Right now the first grade squad is leaderless. No captain. No coach.

On paper we should finish mid table.

The challenge for the squad is to reach mid table in spite of Mary.

Am quietly optimistic that we are 6-8 games away from having a new coach appointed.

Will always support the playing roster that runs out in the big red V.

Gooooo the mighties !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Agree saints forever
I hope that Mary give the captaincy to frizz and vice captain to Packer.
I think it will do 2 things.
Free up widdop the captaincy is not his go. Let him just concentrate on doing his job.
Secondly Frizz would lift and that would lift the team as a whole much like benny c use to.

 

[Dragonslayer]

Agree saints forever
I hope that Mary give the captaincy to frizz and vice captain to Packer.
I think it will do 2 things.
Free up widdop the captaincy is not his go. Let him just concentrate on doing his job.
Secondly Frizz would lift and that would lift the team as a whole much like benny c use to.

Frizz's face is on everything nowadays, so I would expect him to become our captain. I think Widdop's game suffered due to not only the captaincy, but having to follow McGregor, that was evident in the pressers, he couldn't sit any further away from him if he tried.
The question is will McGregor push the button and strip Widdop of the captaincy?
or
Has Widdop already surrendered the captaincy and that's why Frizz is the forefront of everything?

 

[MattoDragon]

Here we go again.

Everyone posts disappointment, rebellion, mass sackings, aparthy, don't renew memberships, mutiny bla bla bla .
We sign 1 forward we have paid overs for and we have a thread "excited for 2017"

Who have we actually signed, who had had a significant impact at a better performing club than ours?

Answer nobody, we have only signed fringe 1st graders and some of those allegedly have attiture or off fied issues.

Now they will go well with a team that lacks spirit and is already down hearted under a coach who sinks our side to lower levels after almost every training run and game.

Yes its is good to be upbeat but for god's sake be upbeat when we have achieved something to be upbeat about.

Last year it was oooh we have signed Lafai, oooh we have signed Lui, Havilli etc and how good did that go for us?

Wake up guys, the club loves it when we get conned into believing it is going to be better.

To be excited about next year with the same coach as we had last year with the roster we have bought to date must mean that you think Mary can coach.

ABSOLUTE INSANITY

Can i just say.... last year i ran into duges, before the knights game, and we had a chat.
I asked him if it really gets to him that fans constantly overlook all the good he does and pick on the "he cant pass" aspect.
He had a good laugh and said "tell them ill show them passing this weekend" and kept on laughing while walking away.
He chimed in nicely that game. Drew in defenders and set up 2 or 3 tries.
He can ball play, its just not his natural game.
Widdop can play also, if he was that bad bennett wouldnt have picked him.
Do we remember Soward? No one rated him, bennett came along, saw something, and next thing u know we had the form 5/8 of the comp for 2 years.
Hutch or Nona can both play.
And McInnes, the first time we chased him most were happy, saying he can play. And he can play!!!
The only fk up with all of this is the coach. Mary is not the man to excite me about 2017.
The team on paper is a team that can challenge top 4, but not with mary as coach.
The one thing that i look forward to is most players are contracted past 2017, mary wont be anywhere near our club in 2018, take that as fact.
No matter how well we do next year, i can assure you mary will not be coach in 2018.
And the youngsters coming through, they surely must give us all hope that with a new coach the future will be looking good.

I hate to ruin your argument but we have something like 12 current first graders UNsigned beyond 2017. Check this list.....
Dugan
Nightingale
Mann
Aitken
Milne
Widdop
Hutchison
De Belin
Packer
Ah Mau
Matthews
Masao
+ Leilua is yet to re-sign and Nona is only on a 1 year contract.
And you reckon the future looks good.
Only if the majority of those guys re-sign.

 

[Dragonslayer]

I hate to ruin your argument but we have something like 12 current first graders UNsigned beyond 2017. Check this list.....
Dugan
Nightingale
Mann
Aitken
Milne
Widdop
Hutchison
De Belin
Packer
Ah Mau
Matthews
Masao
+ Leilua is yet to re-sign and Nona is only on a 1 year contract.
And you reckon the future looks good.
Only if the majority of those guys re-sign.

Ah Mau is signed until the end of 2018.
We have some 22 players off contract at the end of 2017, and I would add Havili (depending on his court case in November) and Isaac Thompson to that list. So we do have a lot of $$$ available.

However, let's first take a look at who we have already signed beyond 2017, before we re-sign any of the above. And I will list by position (expected position).

F/B - Dufty
Wings - McDonald, Garrick
Centres - Herbert
5/8 - ?
7 - Field
Hooker - McInness
Front Row - Vaughan, LAM
2nd Row - Thompson, Frizz, Sims, Kerr, Sele
Lock - ?

First look at who we really need to resign - Aitken, Milne, Mann and Packer
Now look at who we shouldn't re-sign - Nightingale and Matthews
Now look who need to show something in 2017 to earn a contract - The rest

It's a bit of a jigsaw and who we re-sign will be determined on how well some of the younger guys perform in 2017 as well as some of the more experienced. Add to that who will become "available" from other clubs.

Interesting puzzle actually.

 

[TruSaint]

agree with slayer ...
also most contracts signed in the past few seasons had an expiry date of end 2017, due to the new Cap in 2018.

The increase in the cap is significant.. its how we manage it.

 

[dragonreddy]

agree with slayer ...
also most contracts signed in the past few seasons had an expiry date of end 2017, due to the new Cap in 2018.

The increase in the cap is significant.. its how we manage it.

Our skill in this area has been poor at best, Mullholland bolted he was our best chance ,whatever extra we get with the cap increase will be squandered paying overs to try and lure any one of note to the club,see P Vaughan. The only hway they can change this situation is to hire a top coach. oh and start winning.

 

[giboz71]

I think 2018 will be the year it will turn around. Mary will almost certainly be gone and there are still murmurs that Hasler or Cleary may come on board. One can only hope.

Next year, will be much like this year, treading water, hovering around position 8-11, then missing the 8 once more. Can't see why there would be any more improvement with largely the same team and the same coach.

But in 2018, I'd expect some of our exciting juniors to be ready - Dufty, Garrick, Herbert, Thompson, Field. Dugan and Widdop will be off contract, and unless there is a big turn around in form, don't really feel we should re-sign, given the young talent and given their pay checks. Use that cash to splash out on a new set of halves that will be on the market (Elgey, Taylor, Brooks, Moses, Hunt etc). We've all seen what a new halves pairing did for the Sharks this year.

With Cleary or Hasler at the helm, we should be in a better position to snare one or two of these guys. If we can nab a set of halves, matched up with our young flyers, and pretty decent forward pack, with Cleary or Hasler running the ship, we could be going places.

 

[TruSaint]

Our skill in this area has been poor at best, Mullholland bolted he was our best chance ,whatever extra we get with the cap increase will be squandered paying overs to try and lure any one of note to the club,see P Vaughan. The only hway they can change this situation is to hire a top coach. oh and start winning.

I just hope your wrong reddy, even though i understand our record is poor. PM leaving then Ayoub, and rumours of JD, doesnt fill people with confidence .. I get that.. As to Vaughan , I will judge him when he plays for us.. I rate the guy. One of the reasons our record may be poor recently is that we a tagged with every possible signing, from Cronk / Bellamy / Cleary / Roberts etc..

 

[TruSaint]

Call me delusional or an optimist, but I'm really excited for 2017 and beyond.

The signings of Vaughan, McInnes, McDonald and Nona... Sims with a full preseason... No more Benji (though I wish him all the best) and Rein... I think there is hope there. Obviously held back by McBallsack and the board, but I really think the roster is heading in the right direction.

I don't think we'll witness amazing success, but fingers crossed JD gets his chance and we can see some positives on the horizon.

(Trying to shine a positive light on what has been an incredibly disappointing year).

Let bygones be bygones so they say... Up the dragons!!

Dean, well done on posting your thoughts .. Collectively we have had plenty to complain about, but its refreshing for me to read a passionate outlook for 2017. We wont all agree on but your last 2 sentences resinate.

 

[emu62]

Agree saints forever
I hope that Mary give the captaincy to frizz and vice captain to Packer.
I think it will do 2 things.
Free up widdop the captaincy is not his go. Let him just concentrate on doing his job.
Secondly Frizz would lift and that would lift the team as a whole much like benny c use to.

Not too sure on giving the captaincy to Frizz as much as i think he deserves it.
Seem to recall a interview - that he plays his best football when he doesn't think too much.
If this being the case i would worry about his form going the opposite way

 

[TruSaint]

Agree saints forever
I hope that Mary give the captaincy to frizz and vice captain to Packer.
I think it will do 2 things.
Free up widdop the captaincy is not his go. Let him just concentrate on doing his job.
Secondly Frizz would lift and that would lift the team as a whole much like benny c use to.

Sammy does Friz deserve it, sh..t yeah...

But i think we need a hardhead as Captain, some one whom can intimidate the refs and get in their faces ( not to the extent of Cam Smith and co. ), but we have had clean skins for captains now for a while. It hasnet worked at critical times.

Friz like Benny, are just too damn nice to be Captains. Just my opinion. JT, Smith, Graham, Gallen, are very " in your face type captains"... They can sway penalty counts, and do it every week..

I must admit though, i dont know who that player is. He needs to be on the field for 80 minutes ( or most of ), and needs to be willing to respectfully challenge refs... How many times in the NRL have we seen a penalty count change in the 2nd half, mainly as a result of pressure from Captains.

 

[deansykes]

Dean, well done on posting your thoughts .. Collectively we have had plenty to complain about, but its refreshing for me to read a passionate outlook for 2017. We wont all agree on but your last 2 sentences resinate.

It can't all be negative mate, I'm as frustrated as anyone with coaching and board... But the lads that take the field deserve our support