It's NOT a mess

[KiamaSaint]

Hunt was always going to squeeze our cap. I was disappointed in losing Dugan but something had to give. I know I am going to get shouted down here because they play different positions, but as far as I am concerned, Hunt for Dugan is a spine upgrade. My greater disappointment is around losing Packer however we got him cheaply, it was always going to be hard to keep him.

Hardly a mess.

 

[FlameThrower]

Hunt was always going to squeeze our cap. I was disappointed in losing Dugan but something had to give. I know I am going to get shouted down here because they play different positions, but as far as I am concerned, Hunt for Dugan is a spine upgrade. My greater disappointment is around losing Packer however we got him cheaply, it was always going to be hard to keep him.

Hardly a mess.

Finch on Fox has it the other way around,reckons Dugan is a better player than Hunt???? I don't really bother with Finch or his opinions and the above statement underlines why!!

 

[BrissyRedV]

IMO, the biggest loss out of the two players that are leaving will be Packer and in reality, he is for the most part replaceable. The biggest asset we will lose from Packer is his outright aggression and passion. His base stats as a prop are solid, but not outstanding. Hame Sele has shown he is up to first grade standard is continuously improving with each game. Hopefully we can see a bit of Laurie and Kerr at some stage to see how they adapt as we may already have a ready replacement for the most part. If we can however, and I have said it before, but if there was one prop worth breaking the bank for as a replacement, Nelson Asofa Solomona would a great addition and set the pack up for years to come.

In the case of Dugan, I honestly believe the club has done the right thing. Three years is the max deal that should have been offered him in the clubs current situation and the addition of Hunt, well and truly makes up for his loss. Understandably, Dugan is a quality international player, but with what he currently adds to our side, I think he is replaceable. His retention on a long term, big dollar deal, would have seriously put in jeopardy our chances of retaining several talented juniors whose talents can be highlighted by the u20s SOO sides and Australian and Kiwi u20s sides. Understandably, some if not all of them may not be ready to make the jump and it may be 2-3 years before they are truly ready. But as Dugan was not willing to accept even a three year deal, it made his position untenable with us. Focus should shift into either getting a young guy ready to take up the one next year, or a stop gap solution for a year or two that complements our now exceptionally quality spine.

 

[BrissyRedV]

Finch on Fox has it the other way around,reckons Dugan is a better player than Hunt???? I don't really bother with Finch or his opinions and the above statement underlines why!!

Finch has no idea. Above is the stats for the 2014, 2015 and 2016 season. Hunt will guide this team around and turn several of weaknesses of the past couple years and this year in particular, into strengths for us. Hunt will have a much more positive influence on this side than Dugan has had. Dugans biggest strength in his kick return metres, has been mostly nullified by the rampant pack we have and as demonstrated by the last couple of games, we have had no issue making metres without him. Our attack has also been more fluent without him especially highlighted by the Manly game.

 

[possm]

You are on crack! have you not noticed the players have played a differently depending on the opposition? Surely you have to give credit to the coach for this or do you think the players just turn up and say ok today we are going to hit the right side or we are going to have quick play the balls and offloads? Watch the tigers game replay on fox where you can hear the players during the ad break- gypsy turns to another player and says something along the lines of " just like we trained boys". Give your anti Illawarra agenda a break mate it really is getting tiring reading your bullshit.

In the off-season, the football committee and the player leadership group met with the coaching staff with the aim of making changes to Mary's game plans. It was clear to me that players could not carry out Mary's instructions during the 2016 season and I said so many times on here during 2016.

So previous plans were dumped and a new style designed by the whole group was adopted. The player's had a buy-in and now had ownership of the playing style. The results speak for themselves.

 

[BankstownDragon]

My 2 cents: its a bloody mess.

To loose both Packer and Dugan is a disgrace. Whatvever the circumstances or contributing factors that lead to this, its simply just not good enough.

Millward and the Dragons approach generally is conservative and tentative when dealing with contract negotiations....not agressive enough.

Too much of "wait and see how it pans out" and step 1 has to happen before we decide about 2 and 3.

Successful clubs already know step 3 and action it. Tired if the lame excuses the club gives and very f***kn tired of the appologist supporters accepting it.

Not sure if I made any sence but thats my take cheers.

 

[BringTheNoise]

We lost 2 internationals within 2 weeks.

But don't despair because we've made a bloke who will probably never play Origin one of the highest paid players in the NRL.

It's a mess.

 

[Sheridan Stand]

We lost 2 internationals within 2 weeks.

But don't dispair because we've made a bloke who will probably never play Origin one of the highest paid players in the NRL.

It's a mess.

We don't have any front office leadership - people on here spin crap better than management.

 

[possm]

We don't have any front office leadership - people on here spin crap better than management.

Are you saying it's a mess?

 

[cussy]

Mate

In the off-season, the football committee and the player leadership group met with the coaching staff with the aim of making changes to Mary's game plans. It was clear to me that players could not carry out Mary's instructions during the 2016 season and I said so many times on here during 2016.

So previous plans were dumped and a new style designed by the whole group was adopted. The player's had a buy-in and now had ownership of the playing style. The results speak for themselves.

mate there is always a coaching and leadership group there was one last year. To me apart from the training and support staff the coaching group remains much the same with young Hornby head and most likely Collins. No great changes there. Look i wanted Mary gone at beginning of the year but he has or the club has obviously changed something. He may have learnt from past errors which to me is great. Proof in the pudding team is playing great footy with KPI's met. Got to give him credit for that.

 

[BrissyRedV]

As I say to some of my colleagues and patients, just chill. Its not worth an aneurysm.

 

[Sheridan Stand]

Are you saying it's a mess?

It's a sh$t show

 

[Old Timer]

We lost 2 internationals within 2 weeks.

But don't dispair because we've made a bloke who will probably never play Origin one of the highest paid players in the NRL.

It's a mess.

People over in JA saying that the club has good vision in letting Dugan & Packer go as there are now 5 off U/20's players on show in the SOO U/20's match.
So the reality is we are improving now and knocking on the door this year and have Hunt coming next year so if we had retained the 2017 starting roster and Hunt coming in 2018 then real title chances in 2018 / 19.
The players in the U/20's SOO (which is great in all aspects) are at least some 3-4 years away from 1st grade (that is evident by current by the way we handled the last lot of U/20's).
Dugan and Packer could have been retained for 3 - 4 years if the negotiations had been handled correctly and we would have been very strong title contenders and then the good U/20's players could come in behind them with those already in the reggies and replace the internationals after learning from them.
So that means the players now in the reggies are actually the ones being relied on to come to first grade next year to replace the 2 lost internationals and it is obviously not the U/20's SOO rep players.
The question then is will they make the squad stronger in the short term or will we need to wait a few years for them to grow and we therefore actually delay our shot at the title?
Having established that the good reggies players are the ones to come up next and we look at Mary & Millward's abstract method of blooding or in fact the non blooding of Dufty, Field, Host, Leilua and a few others it would probably indicate that they will go for journeymen replacements for Dugan & Packer in the short term.
If they do in fact replace with journeymen and do not fully promote the good reggies players, then we have gone from getting a real sniff of a premiership in the next 2-3 years to having to wait for a crop of juniors to be elevated from a very much disorganised and ad hoc pathway systems.
Even when they do get the experience needed and are 1st grade hardened some of the existing squad will have aged and their best will be most likely behind them (De Belin, Hunt, Thompson, Frizzell)
At least Sele seems to be being handled well for the time being which is a real change to Host / Leilua / Dufty but Field's situation is ridiculous as he bench warms for 1st grade, with very little game time, doesn't play reggies and gets picked in the U/20's SOO side which is just crazy. The kid needs to be playing lots of footy to be able to learn.
Anyway IMO we had a real chance in the next 3 years with our existing squad and I haven't seen anything yet to say we will be stronger next year for their loss and therefore conclude we are further away from a premiership so on that basis I consider being further away = being a mess.

 

[BrissyRedV]

Dugan and Packer could have been retained for 3 - 4 years if the negotiations had been handled correctly.

That is a big hypothetical that you cannot be certain of. Hypothetically, if we matched Packers offer from the Tigers we could have lost out in several other positions. As for Dugan, In all honesty I think he moved to the Sharks for the most part in spite. Basil probably could have added an extra year to the deal which is risk unto itself, but it may not have changed a thing anyway. I think the club got its priorities right retaining Widdop and signing Hunt and putting a fair value on Dugan.

Anyway IMO we had a real chance in the next 3 years with our existing squad and I haven't seen anything yet to say we will be stronger next year for their loss and therefore conclude we are further away from a premiership so on that basis I consider being further away = being a mess.

I think the side has demonstrated it can be as good, if not better with Hunt in the side over Dugan next year with the side I think showing they can play without him over the last few weeks. Hunt may not ever play SOO but he is a huge upgrade on McGrone and has shown over the last 3 years that he is a quality halfback with excellent contributions to his side.

I am still critical with the club on a number of issues and may still be on this particular issue if the cap space freed up by this is not used wisely. Anyways, I have reflected and dwelled on this and I still feel at ease with what has happened.

 

[The Damo]

In the off-season, the football committee and the player leadership group met with the coaching staff with the aim of making changes to Mary's game plans. It was clear to me that players could not carry out Mary's instructions during the 2016 season and I said so many times on here during 2016.

So previous plans were dumped and a new style designed by the whole group was adopted. The player's had a buy-in and now had ownership of the playing style. The results speak for themselves.

Any chance Mary was involved in process? Delegated authority, resolved disputes, final say on contentious decisions? Or was he not even in the room? Obviously I don't know - but seems silly to assume he wasn't pretty heavily involved.

 

[BringTheNoise]

The club made a huge offer to Cronk and and after he knocked them back and they grew tired of the constant rejection they took the same dollars and offered them to Hunt who is a significant downgrade from Cronk.

The best compliment people keep coming up with is that he's an upgrade from McCrone and we'll be better with him in the team. Who the f*** isn't an upgrade from McCrone?

For what we are paying Hunt he better drag our side into the top 4 every year and win at least one Premiership for us. So far he's failed to lead Brisbane to a Premiership under the coaching of Bennett. But hopefully McGregor can help him take his game to the next level....

How many more players will we lose or fail to sign over the next 4 years while our cap is tied up in Hunt and Widdop's salaries?

 

[Gareth67]

Unfortunately for the Dragons , big Russ and Josh are now both gone , or shall be next year . They have put that into another compartment now , perhaps we should also .

Will we ever know what really occurred with the negotiations ? I doubt it very much . I am looking forward to the rest of this season , as I believe that both Dugan and Packer will do their best for their teammates and make every post a winner .

 

[BrissyRedV]

The best compliment people keep coming up with is that he's an upgrade from McCrone and we'll be better with him in the team.

He is the only half to rank in the top 3 for the following stats over the 2014, 2015 and 2016 season:
Try assists 3rd
Line breaks 3rd
Tries scored 3rd
Kicks 1st
Kick metres 1st
Tackles 1st
He may not be as good as Cronk, but he is a good player in his right and will significantly improve our team, more so than the retention of Dugan would have if this was a Dugan v Hunt debate.

 

[possm]

People over in JA saying that the club has good vision in letting Dugan & Packer go as there are now 5 off U/20's players on show in the SOO U/20's match.
So the reality is we are improving now and knocking on the door this year and have Hunt coming next year so if we had retained the 2017 starting roster and Hunt coming in 2018 then real title chances in 2018 / 19.
The players in the U/20's SOO (which is great in all aspects) are at least some 3-4 years away from 1st grade (that is evident by current by the way we handled the last lot of U/20's).
Dugan and Packer could have been retained for 3 - 4 years if the negotiations had been handled correctly and we would have been very strong title contenders and then the good U/20's players could come in behind them with those already in the reggies and replace the internationals after learning from them.
So that means the players now in the reggies are actually the ones being relied on to come to first grade next year to replace the 2 lost internationals and it is obviously not the U/20's SOO rep players.
The question then is will they make the squad stronger in the short term or will we need to wait a few years for them to grow and we therefore actually delay our shot at the title?
Having established that the good reggies players are the ones to come up next and we look at Mary & Millward's abstract method of blooding or in fact the non blooding of Dufty, Field, Host, Leilua and a few others it would probably indicate that they will go for journeymen replacements for Dugan & Packer in the short term.
If they do in fact replace with journeymen and do not fully promote the good reggies players, then we have gone from getting a real sniff of a premiership in the next 2-3 years to having to wait for a crop of juniors to be elevated from a very much disorganised and ad hoc pathway systems.
Even when they do get the experience needed and are 1st grade hardened some of the existing squad will have aged and their best will be most likely behind them (De Belin, Hunt, Thompson, Frizzell)
At least Sele seems to be being handled well for the time being which is a real change to Host / Leilua / Dufty but Field's situation is ridiculous as he bench warms for 1st grade, with very little game time, doesn't play reggies and gets picked in the U/20's SOO side which is just crazy. The kid needs to be playing lots of footy to be able to learn.
Anyway IMO we had a real chance in the next 3 years with our existing squad and I haven't seen anything yet to say we will be stronger next year for their loss and therefore conclude we are further away from a premiership so on that basis I consider being further away = being a mess.

Very well put Old Timer.

 

[BringTheNoise]

He is the only half to rank in the top 3 for the following stats over the 2014, 2015 and 2016 season:
Try assists 3rd
Line breaks 3rd
Tries scored 3rd
Kicks 1st
Kick metres 1st
Tackles 1st
He may not be as good as Cronk, but he is a good player in his right and will significantly improve our team, more so than the retention of Dugan would have if this was a Dugan v Hunt debate.

I don't know why people always bring up stats like they are the be all and end all? This isn't supacoach, if stats are the benchmark then Paul Gallen and Corey Parker will be the next Immortals.

With regard to whether Hunt will improve our team more so than the retention of Packer and Dugan (and anyone else off contract me may lose while Millward rattles off excuse after excuse) that is still completely speculative and unproven at this stage. The only guaranteed improvement is that he is an improvement on McCrone (not a huge benchmark).