Should there be 2 teams in Brisbane?

[adamkungl]

I think there should be another team in SE QLD. I don't think they should be the next team in and I don't necessarily believe they should be based at Suncorp. For example, I think it would be stupid for an Ipswich team to be based at Suncorp.

 

[Karl]

Why the Hang-up on having two Brisbane Teams playing out of Suncorp? With the Roar and the Reds and the Broncos and Concerts, Suncorp does fine. We even turn it into a pool every 30 to 100 years.

The most important thing with another team in Brisbane is DIFFERENTIATION. Broncos+Bombers = no proper differentiation, cannibilisation of existing supporter base and 1+1= maybe 1.2. Thats only .6 each. There needs to be a decent reason to magnetise the new team for supporters, to galvanise a response from fans.

Rugby League Clubs are Tribal by nature and so are the fans. People are parochial creatures, which is all why Western Corridor/Ipswich is where the next Brisbane team needs to go.

 

[docbrown]

The most important thing with another team in Brisbane is DIFFERENTIATION. Broncos+Bombers = no proper differentiation

I think the name is what put some people off. It was actually a bit of a let down after the hooplah.

I don't necessarily think there's a problem with having two teams represent the whole of one city. If the team is attractive enough then they'll form their own associations. I'd look to the New York Giants & New York Jets for clues on how to make it work.

That said from what I understand the Broncos actually draw the majority of their memberships from north of Mount Gravatt. Perhaps this is to do with the location of Lang Park itself but there is some logic to exploiting the North East/South West divide.

Having a team in Ipswich to counter the Broncos is in the same logic as having a team in Penrith counter the rest of Sydney combined.

I think what any Brisbane bid needs to be is a team that can split support 50/50. That's how you dominate the sporting landscape.

Tie that into 12 Queensland derby games a year - almost one a fortnight - and you're going to dominate the sports media.

 

[Dragon_Taylor6]

Why the Hang-up on having two Brisbane Teams playing out of Suncorp? With the Roar and the Reds and the Broncos and Concerts, Suncorp does fine. We even turn it into a pool every 30 to 100 years.

The most important thing with another team in Brisbane is DIFFERENTIATION. Broncos+Bombers = no proper differentiation, cannibilisation of existing supporter base and 1+1= maybe 1.2. Thats only .6 each. There needs to be a decent reason to magnetise the new team for supporters, to galvanise a response from fans.

Rugby League Clubs are Tribal by nature and so are the fans. People are parochial creatures, which is all why Western Corridor/Ipswich is where the next Brisbane team needs to go.

I'm not saying I support the Bombers approach, but for a new team to average roughly 20,000 in it's first year would be pretty good.
Even if it was at the slight expense of big brother.

 

[East Coast Tiger]

Brisbane II makes perfect sense. Play at Suncorp, based on the southside, link with the Q Cup clubs south of the river but remain an all-Brisbane side. That makes the most sense of any plan. Ipswich doesn't work because it's not Brisbane and the "western corridor" is just a made-up thing. It's like GWS. Ipswich people can/do support a Brisbane side, but Brisbane people won't support an Ipswich side and Ipswich is nowhere near big enough to support a strong NRL club.

 

[docbrown]

Brisbane II makes perfect sense. Play at Suncorp, based on the southside, link with the Q Cup clubs south of the river but remain an all-Brisbane side. That makes the most sense of any plan. Ipswich doesn't work because it's not Brisbane and the "western corridor" is just a made-up thing. It's like GWS. Ipswich people can/do support a Brisbane side, but Brisbane people won't support an Ipswich side and Ipswich is nowhere near big enough to support a strong NRL club.

That's all pretty logical. To people in the South/West it would be their team through community engagement but if it's called 'BRISBANE' or 'SOUTH QUEENSLAND' then it can appeal to any person in the region and moreso any Queenslander. If it's called IPSWICH or GREATER SOUTH WESTERN etc then you're minimising the target. What you really want is households divided over loyalties, similar to what I've said about Bears/Manly in Northern Sydney.

That's why I couldn't understand the Bombers motivation for linking up with Redcliffe and the Sunshine Coast. It's just not playing on the right game board.

 

[Perth Red]

Interestingly in Perth having a team named Fremantle has worked well, I would say 95% of Fremantle fans don;t actually live in Fremantle but what they did do was become the "working mans" club for WA as opposed to the Eagles who tended to be seen as the silvertails of the Northern and Western suburbs. Mind you it didn;t hurt that the Eagles games are sold out in advance so if you want to watch a game you have to watch the Dockers!

As long as there is differentiation either through regional targetting or points of difference then they will attract a different fanbase to the Broncos. Over 300K people watch NRL on TV in Brisbane, there must be a market for a second team!

 

[docbrown]

Interestingly in Perth having a team named Fremantle has worked well, I would say 95% of Fremantle fans don;t actually live in Fremantle but what they did do was become the "working mans" club for WA as opposed to the Eagles who tended to be seen as the silvertails of the Northern and Western suburbs. Mind you it didn;t hurt that the Eagles games are sold out in advance so if you want to watch a game you have to watch the Dockers!

As long as there is differentiation either through regional targetting or points of difference then they will attract a different fanbase to the Broncos. Over 300K people watch NRL on TV in Brisbane, there must be a market for a second team!

Sounds a bit like the model a second Brisbane side should adopt. I still say they're better off with taking the larger regional name though. Perhaps the Dockers would have an even better perception if they were called Perth.

They both play out of the same ground so if you don't want to be an Eagles fan you have an alternative. Also double the number of matches for Perth based fans of interstate teams.

 

[Karl]

Brisbane II makes perfect sense. Play at Suncorp, based on the southside, link with the Q Cup clubs south of the river but remain an all-Brisbane side. That makes the most sense of any plan. Ipswich doesn't work because it's not Brisbane and the "western corridor" is just a made-up thing. It's like GWS. Ipswich people can/do support a Brisbane side, but Brisbane people won't support an Ipswich side and Ipswich is nowhere near big enough to support a strong NRL club.

Logic like this shits me because I might need to change my mind.

 

[East Coast Tiger]

It makes sense to me.

Broncos - based at Red Hill - playing at Suncorp - linked with Norths, Redcliffe and Sunshine Coast - covering North Brisbane, Western Suburbs, Sunshine Coast, Wide Bay.

Brisbane II - based on the southside or Ipswich - playing at Suncorp - linked with Easts, Wynnum, Souths-Logan and Ipswich - covering South, East and South West Brisbane, Ipswich and the South West Division (Toowoomba etc).

Gold Coast - based at Robina - playing at Skilled - linked with Bureligh and Tweed Heads - covering Gold Coast and Northern Rivers.

Nth Qld - based in Townsville - playing at Dairy Farmers - linked with Northern Pride and Mackay - covering the Northern Division.

That leaves Central Qld to link with Broncos for now as it develops its own bid for the future.

 

[docbrown]

It makes sense to me.

Broncos - based at Red Hill - playing at Suncorp - linked with Norths, Redcliffe and Sunshine Coast - covering North Brisbane, Western Suburbs, Sunshine Coast, Wide Bay.

Brisbane II - based on the southside or Ipswich - playing at Suncorp - linked with Easts, Wynnum, Souths-Logan and Ipswich - covering South, East and South West Brisbane, Ipswich and the South West Division (Toowoomba etc).

Gold Coast - based at Robina - playing at Skilled - linked with Bureligh and Tweed Heads - covering Gold Coast and Northern Rivers.

Nth Qld - based in Townsville - playing at Dairy Farmers - linked with Northern Pride and Mackay - covering the Northern Division.

That leaves Central Qld to link with Broncos for now as it develops its own bid for the future.

Yes, you're on a roll ECT.

In time I'd add that they should look to develop a stand alone Sunshine Coast team. I'm talking 20+ years down the track though. From what I understand at that time the population would be about 500,000 and more centralised.

I always thought that Redcliff should look long term to establish the Sunshine Coast Dolphins.

 

[Goddo]

^ exactly.

That is what the nrl needs. Not some random club in gosford.

 

[Warrior@Heart]

I always thought that Redcliff should look long term to establish the Sunshine Coast Dolphins.

I was thinking the same thing. A name like Bayside Dolphins I think would sound good, two areas Moreton Bay & Sunshine Coast total population over 600,000 combined. Think they could be a legitimate threat if they proposed a united bid.

 

[East Coast Tiger]

Why do people come up with these convoluted ideas? A Redcliffe/Sunshine Coast team or an Ipswich/Logan team makes no geographical, cultural or strategic sense. If the Sunshine Coast is one day big enough and has the infrastructure and support to get its own team it should. But don't atrificially create some kind of link with a relatively isolated Brisbane suburb that happens to have a strong Leagues Club and Qld Cup club for the sake of it. I have never ever seen the logic of this Redcliffe-Sunny Coast thing at all. And as for including Moreton Bay somehow, it stretches all the way down pretty much to the Gold Coast so you're now talking about an area that is several hundred kilometres long north to south, but one that would not include any other northern or eastern Brisbane suburbs. It just doesn't make sense to me.

 

[docbrown]

It would be a relocation but they would have a lower tier presence in Redcliffe and Sunshine Coast.

 

[adamkungl]

Why do people come up with these convoluted ideas? A Redcliffe/Sunshine Coast team or an Ipswich/Logan team makes no geographical, cultural or strategic sense. If the Sunshine Coast is one day big enough and has the infrastructure and support to get its own team it should. But don't atrificially create some kind of link with a relatively isolated Brisbane suburb that happens to have a strong Leagues Club and Qld Cup club for the sake of it. I have never ever seen the logic of this Redcliffe-Sunny Coast thing at all. And as for including Moreton Bay somehow, it stretches all the way down pretty much to the Gold Coast so you're now talking about an area that is several hundred kilometres long north to south, but one that would not include any other northern or eastern Brisbane suburbs. It just doesn't make sense to me.

Moreton Bay is a bit of an odd idea, but Sunshine Coast-Redcliffe isn't too much different to St George-Illawarra. That said, I agree that SC makes more sense standalone, when it is actually feasible (a decade or two...)

 

[East Coast Tiger]

In any event a Sunshine Coast team is so far off I can't even factor it into the plans for the next 15-20 years. Roughly splitting Brisbane into two is the way forward and the most natural division is the river, and things like transport tends to follow. The second division also follows north/south divides. The Broncos are already based north of the rivers so a new club should incorporate the south of the river down to the Gold Coast.

 

[docbrown]

In any event a Sunshine Coast team is so far off I can't even factor it into the plans for the next 15-20 years. Roughly splitting Brisbane into two is the way forward and the most natural division is the river, and things like transport tends to follow. The second division also follows north/south divides. The Broncos are already based north of the rivers so a new club should incorporate the south of the river down to the Gold Coast.

Yes it's at least 20 years away.

But for once in Rugby League I'd like to see some long term strategy in place.

 

[East Coast Tiger]

I don't think we can look that far ahead when planning the second Brisbane side. It's too far away and there are too much water to flow under the bridge before a fifth Qld side is going to be admitted. The best bit of planning that could be done is for this fourth club to be done right from the start. If it is done right the addition of further clubs many years down the track will be far more easy. Like I said, if Sunny Coast grows sufficiently to have its own team it should, and giving them one shouldn't have a significant impact on the current/future structure as long as that structure is put in place now and done properly.

 

[docbrown]

I don't think we can look that far ahead when planning the second Brisbane side.

Sorry if I confused you. I'll clarify -

Within 5 years - 4th Qld side - Brisbane#2
Within 20 years - 5th Qld side - Sunshine Coast - once the population grows and only after Perth, Gosford, Brisbane & Wellington have been admitted.
Within 20-25 years - 6th Qld side - Central Qld - same

I mean they never plan anything long term in rugby league and then wonder why it buggers up when they try and chuck it together at the last minute.

Redcliffe have spoken countless times about long term NRL ambitions but they're never going to get it now where they are. Link up with Sunshine Coast and in the future have the NRL club based there whilst keeping the original lower grade club.

Dolphins has good brand value - much better than drek like Bombers or Bayliners...