Where Will The Panthers Finish In 2018?

[mxlegend99]

Your coach is shyte..also rans.

Seriously no hope of winning. Not happy about it, but reality will set in.

Reggies and juniors probably will win.

Agreed. Although our roster is good enough to win us the games to make the finals regardless.

Sadly once we face an similar or stronger side. The coaching aspect comes in and we're toast. Under a poor coach we can only ever be flat track bullies.

 

[Kilkenny]

Bullshit.

You said we didnt have a winger who could score 15 to 20 tries in a season.


Mansour has done that twice. That stat was posted because you said we didnt have a player who could do it.

Outside of the Storm our backline is equal to or greater than any in the competition. Deadset have a look at the team lists.

In our 1 to 7 we have 4x current tier 1 team internationals along with Dylan Edwards, Waqa Blake and Nathan Cleary. Who are more than capable of playing great footy themselves.

We all know how you love to do the 'Google' thing and dig up your statistics time and time again to back up your argument. For the most part your 'Google' stats don't mean shit.

For the vast majority of us, those on here and those who watch our games we don't require your 'Google' statistics to be aware our outside back's aren't in the same league as some of our main opposition.

Whatever funds have been supposedly freed up by allowing Cartwright and Peachy to leave early needs to be spent on at least one high quality outside back because we are clearly one quality outside back of being a top four side.

 

[Pomoz]

56th out of 16

You see us going well this year then? Where do you see us improving?

 

[mxlegend99]

We all know how you love to do the 'Google' thing and dig up your statistics time and time again to back up your argument. For the most part your 'Google' stats don't mean shit.

For the vast majority of us, those on here and those who watch our games we don't require your 'Google' statistics to be aware our outside back's aren't in the same league as some of our main opposition.

Whatever funds have been supposedly freed up by allowing Cartwright and Peachy to leave early needs to be spent on at least one high quality outside back because we are clearly one quality outside back of being a top four side.

The stats mean youre 100% wrong when you claim we dont have a winger capable of scoring 15 to 20 tries and we do...how is that stat irrelevant ehen you brought it up and were wrong?

You clearly didnt pay close enough attention while watching games to see that. Or to see Maloney and Mansour for Australia in the world cup. Whare and DWZ for NZ.

Exactly how arent these tier 1 internationals as good as guys who arent current rep players?

The only reason other backlines look better in attack is the coaching. We play flat at the line and dont let our backs get the ball. We dont have set plays to give them space.

Go back to 2016 when we did that and this current backline along with the Raiders was easily as destructive as any backline. But for some reason we decided to stop using those plays. Our centres and wingers were used to get up field and our second rowers got all the attacking ball. How is that a reflection of the quality of our backs? They proved themselves enough get play rep footy.

Honestly outside of the Storm all the backlines have an average player or two atleast. Guys with huge gaping weaknesses aswell. Either terrible handling or defence. If not both. Typically the better they are at attack. The worse they are at one or both of these areas.

 

[Kilkenny]

The stats mean youre 100% wrong when you claim we dont have a winger capable of scoring 15 to 20 tries and we do...how is that stat irrelevant ehen you brought it up and were wrong?

You clearly didnt pay close enough attention while watching games to see that. Or to see Maloney and Mansour for Australia in the world cup. Whare and DWZ for NZ.

Exactly how arent these tier 1 internationals as good as guys who arent current rep players?

The only reason other backlines look better in attack is the coaching. We play flat at the line and dont let our backs get the ball. We dont have set plays to give them space.

Go back to 2016 when we did that and this current backline along with the Raiders was easily as destructive as any backline. But for some reason we decided to stop using those plays. Our centres and wingers were used to get up field and our second rowers got all the attacking ball. How is that a reflection of the quality of our backs? They proved themselves enough get play rep footy.

Honestly outside of the Storm all the backlines have an average player or two atleast. Guys with huge gaping weaknesses aswell. Either terrible handling or defence. If not both. Typically the better they are at attack. The worse they are at one or both of these areas.

Mate I am not in the mood for an argument here. You win, we have the best outside backs in the competition bar none and yes I didn't watch the recent World Cup.

 

[mxlegend99]

I never said the best bar none. I said Storm have the best. Ours are atleast as good as any other though. 4 current internationals from the 1-7 is pretty handy.

You made the claim our backs were incapable of something one had already done twice. I just pointed it out.

Its not an argument. Mansour can and has scored 15 or more tries twice. He. Dwz. Whare and Maloney all have world cup jerseys for Tier 1 teams. At full strength we have a top 4 capable side. With injuries? Probably not.

Edit
You think we have an average backline. Each to his own. But I think most teams would happily sign our backs.

 

[Kilkenny]

I never said the best bar none. I said Storm have the best. Ours are atleast as good as any other though. 4 current internationals from the 1-7 is pretty handy.

You made the claim our backs were incapable of something one had already done twice. I just pointed it out.

Its not an argument. Mansour can and has scored 15 or more tries twice. He. Dwz. Whare and Maloney all have world cup jerseys for Tier 1 teams. At full strength we have a top 4 capable side. With injuries? Probably not.

Edit
You think we have an average backline. Each to his own. But I think most teams would happily sign our backs.

Firstly, i wouldn't swap Josh Mansour for any other winger in the competition but that is just me. Not saying he is the best winger but I just would not swap him for anyone else because of who he is and what he stands for. Great club man and great person.

DWZ, Whare, Peachy and Waqa Blake they are all decent players but they simply aren't the sort of quality to win you a premiership when all other things are equal.

 

[mxlegend99]

Cowboys had Coote, Feldt, Winterstein, Linnett and Oneil.
Sharks had Barba, Feki, Bird, Leutele and Holmes
Souths had Inglis, Johnston, Walker, Auva'a and Tuqiri

I would take our backline ahead of any of those. Not to say they didnt have a better player or two. But as a whole I rate ours as better.

Throw in a good halves pairing and its insane to say they arent good enough. the talent is there. Its all about the coach and the gameplans though.

 

[OldPanther]

We all know how you love to do the 'Google' thing and dig up your statistics time and time again to back up your argument. For the most part your 'Google' stats don't mean shit.

For the vast majority of us, those on here and those who watch our games we don't require your 'Google' statistics to be aware our outside back's aren't in the same league as some of our main opposition.

Whatever funds have been supposedly freed up by allowing Cartwright and Peachy to leave early needs to be spent on at least one high quality outside back because we are clearly one quality outside back of being a top four side.

Mansour scoring lots of tries:


Our good boy DWZ being an awesome winger:


Waqa Blake:


Dean Whare:

 

[mxlegend99]

Those highlights show why DWZ and Blake need to be left on our right edge and allowed to continue to build their combination.

Both players support each other and they both scored tries as a result. They were so good together at the end of 2016.

 

[OldPanther]

Those highlights show why DWZ and Blake need to be left on our right edge and allowed to continue to build their combination.

Both players support each other and they both scored tries as a result. They were so good together at the end of 2016.

Thwy did it again in 2017 as well. I imagine with a 2nd receiver like Maloney feeding them good ball they'd be up there with the best edge in the game.

 

[umina panther]

Those highlights show why DWZ and Blake need to be left on our right edge and allowed to continue to build their combination.

Both players support each other and they both scored tries as a result. They were so good together at the end of 2016.

Hook is blind to this stuff a lot of the time it seems

 

[Pomoz]

Cowboys had Coote, Feldt, Winterstein, Linnett and Oneil.
Sharks had Barba, Feki, Bird, Leutele and Holmes
Souths had Inglis, Johnston, Walker, Auva'a and Tuqiri

I would take our backline ahead of any of those. Not to say they didnt have a better player or two. But as a whole I rate ours as better.

Throw in a good halves pairing and its insane to say they arent good enough. the talent is there. Its all about the coach and the gameplans though.

But its not though is it? The coach is one part of it. If you were right, then halfbacks and 5/8 wouldn't get the biggest money and have clubs fighting over them. But they do and its because it doesn't matter how good your coach is if your spine is rubbish, or, in our case last year our halves were young and inexperienced.

I have never heard Andrew Johns, Brandy, Ricky Stewart or Cronk come off the field after a loss and say "it was the coaches game plan that let us down". Good players adapt to what is in front of them. Young Cleary has mentioned that in a few interviews already, so has Maloney. Hook is not a great attack coach but our halves last year and Moylan was as bad as anybody with his telegraphed passes to Yeo and CHN, were very dour. Do you think Brandy would keep passing to Yeo over and over until he was tackled black and blue? He would have grabbed a forward and told them to run a decoy, told Peachey to do a wrap around. He would have done something, he wouldn't have said "what a muppet Hook is, where's my runner?".

You think our back line is better than the South's and Shark's backline you listed? Better than the Cowboys? If we did a poll with neutral fans I'm not sure ours would have come out on top. Everybody loves Mansour, but DWZ? A mistake in him that can cost you the game. Blake? Still learning his trade. he has still only just played 62 games, given him time to reach his peak and I'm sure he will be one of the best, just not yet and not consistently yet. Peachey? Which one. The one who can't be arsed with arm grab tackles, or the one who will break tackles at will?

 

[OldPanther]

But its not though is it? The coach is one part of it. If you were right, then halfbacks and 5/8 wouldn't get the biggest money and have clubs fighting over them. But they do and its because it doesn't matter how good your coach is if your spine is rubbish, or, in our case last year our halves were young and inexperienced.

I have never heard Andrew Johns, Brandy, Ricky Stewart or Cronk come off the field after a loss and say "it was the coaches game plan that let us down". Good players adapt to what is in front of them. Young Cleary has mentioned that in a few interviews already, so has Maloney. Hook is not a great attack coach but our halves last year and Moylan was as bad as anybody with his telegraphed passes to Yeo and CHN, were very dour. Do you think Brandy would keep passing to Yeo over and over until he was tackled black and blue? He would have grabbed a forward and told them to run a decoy, told Peachey to do a wrap around. He would have done something, he wouldn't have said "what a muppet Hook is, where's my runner?".

You think our back line is better than the South's and Shark's backline you listed? Better than the Cowboys? If we did a poll with neutral fans I'm not sure ours would have come out on top. Everybody loves Mansour, but DWZ? A mistake in him that can cost you the game. Blake? Still learning his trade. he has still only just played 62 games, given him time to reach his peak and I'm sure he will be one of the best, just not yet and not consistently yet. Peachey? Which one. The one who can't be arsed with arm grab tackles, or the one who will break tackles at will?

Fair point about good halves. Vision is important.

I think DWZ gets a bad rap when he's actually not as terrible with errors as what everyone says.

 

[mxlegend99]

But its not though is it? The coach is one part of it. If you were right, then halfbacks and 5/8 wouldn't get the biggest money and have clubs fighting over them. But they do and its because it doesn't matter how good your coach is if your spine is rubbish, or, in our case last year our halves were young and inexperienced.

I have never heard Andrew Johns, Brandy, Ricky Stewart or Cronk come off the field after a loss and say "it was the coaches game plan that let us down". Good players adapt to what is in front of them. Young Cleary has mentioned that in a few interviews already, so has Maloney. Hook is not a great attack coach but our halves last year and Moylan was as bad as anybody with his telegraphed passes to Yeo and CHN, were very dour. Do you think Brandy would keep passing to Yeo over and over until he was tackled black and blue? He would have grabbed a forward and told them to run a decoy, told Peachey to do a wrap around. He would have done something, he wouldn't have said "what a muppet Hook is, where's my runner?".

You think our back line is better than the South's and Shark's backline you listed? Better than the Cowboys? If we did a poll with neutral fans I'm not sure ours would have come out on top. Everybody loves Mansour, but DWZ? A mistake in him that can cost you the game. Blake? Still learning his trade. he has still only just played 62 games, given him time to reach his peak and I'm sure he will be one of the best, just not yet and not consistently yet. Peachey? Which one. The one who can't be arsed with arm grab tackles, or the one who will break tackles at will?

Deadset. We should just get rid of Cleary and Maloney and bring back Burns and Walsh. You seem to think they're better.

A half can only do so much if the structure his teams are running are f**king useless. Even Thurston. Cowboys is 2008, 2009 and 2010 were horrible with the best half in the game. Until 2014 we never had the halves. Since then we have. Aside from 2014 and part of 2016 we never had the set plays to show off how good our halves and backs are

Sharks backline is the only one I would even consider out of those. Take Inglis out of the Souths backline and its f**king trash, put that Cowboys backline behind any normal teams halves and they're trash aswell. Cootes their best. We had him already.

Do our backs have mistakes in them? Yeah. But do do those other backs. Holmes is as rock or diamonds as it gets.

Go look at the error counts. Top 5 in 2017 were Tom Turbo with 37, Josh Addo Carr with 37, Semi with 36, Rapana with 35 and Wighton with 35. DWZ has a shocker in him. So do they.

As for missed tackles Dylan Walker had the most for a centre. Yet many argue hes one of the better centres. Also Peachey is gone. Hes our depth centre now. When fit Whare and Blake are our centres. If Whare can ever reach his best form he was the best defensive centre in the comp. Although he was trash in 2017.

Those backlines all hit a purple patch of form. If ours does the same it shits on them easily. Premiers quiet often have weaker backlines that just hit form at the perfect time.

Panthers 2003 was one. Tigers 2005. Honestly look at grand final teams and outside of star studded Broncos and Storm teams most backlines not as good as you think they are.

Appareny Jennings wasnt that good of a centre. Nor Coote a fullback. In new teams with better coaches theyre key parts of grand final wins.

Put Blake or DWZ in the Storm team. They're lighting it up like Koroibete and Josh Addo-Carr. Both Tigers reserve graders unable to secure a spot.

Roosters wingers are average as f**k. But Roosters use them well and they look good. Tupou and Fergo both have mistakes in them. Missed tackles. Brain explosions. The difference is we dont care about players in teams we dont follow. You watch other teams games, rep games and so on. You see things it feels like only our players do.

Trouble is they get more opportunities to show off what they can do aswell. That's what makes highlights reels.

 

[franklin2323]

Hook is blind to this stuff a lot of the time it seems

Who was inside DWZ in 2014? They did it a few times for the kiwis too

 

[franklin2323]

Fair point about good halves. Vision is important.

I think DWZ gets a bad rap when he's actually not as terrible with errors as what everyone says.

That is why older halves are better. Cronk at this age was a centre. JT a fringe FG at Bulldogs

It's the errors he makes more so then the amount. atleast half of his will be coming off our line and he gets up to play it and loses it. Puts us under pressure again

 

[mxlegend99]

Who was inside DWZ in 2014? They did it a few times for the kiwis too

They comvined for arguably our most important try too.

But Blake and DWZ look like a better fit IMO. Similar speed and size. Good understanding of each other.

Whare and Mansour could be good if we let Whare settle in. Just make sure Whare follows Mansour in his runs.

I loved Peachey. But hes already gone in my eyes. Makes more sense to let them develop a combination together.

Looking back at wasted lineups. Imagine the damage our 2010 roster could have done with 2014 Soward and 2017 Cleary in the halves.

Thats the best kick chase lineup ever assembled.

 

[Pomoz]

Deadset. We should just get rid of Cleary and Maloney and bring back Burns and Walsh. You seem to think they're better.

A half can only do so much if the structure his teams are running are f**king useless. Even Thurston. Cowboys is 2008, 2009 and 2010 were horrible with the best half in the game.

Stop right there. We had lots and lots of time in the red zone. In fact, in spite of finishing 7th we managed to have the worst conversion percentage of any team, including the team that came last. The halves have to step up and take responsibility. Hooks "structures" as you out it, got us to the red zone plenty of times. The players then have to play what's in front of them. They didn't. Hook has to take responsibility for that and so do the halves.

Deadset. We should just get rid of Cleary and Maloney and bring back Burns and Walsh. You seem to think they're better.

Until 2014 we never had the halves. Since then we have. Aside from 2014 and part of 2016 we never had the set plays to show off how good our halves and backs are

In your mind, these youngsters are already better than 200 game veterans. You are confusing potential with ability. Nobody thinks for a minute that Cleary can't be better than Walsh, but as of right now he hasn't got a team to second and he hasn't played 120 first grade games. He is potentially better, hopefully this season he will step up and create more for the team. Its great that he scores individual tries as well, but its his ability to organise the attack that will see him become a great player, not just a good player. Stop putting pressure on him and let him learn his trade.

Roosters wingers are average as f**k. But Roosters use them well and they look good. Tupou and Fergo both have mistakes in them. Missed tackles. Brain explosions.

Tupou and Fergo are average? If you say so. Their premiership medals, Australian and NSW jumpers would say different. Playing for NZ like DWZ has, is not as hard as playing for Australia. I have no doubt he wouldn't get a jumper if he was an Australian, he just isn't good enough. Mansour is boss, no argument.

 

[franklin2323]

Mansour is the slower winger. Whare the slower centre. So putting Whare/DWZ together splits the speed up too