Cooper cronk

[Vasilevsky]

Actually they are talking 3.5m over 3 seasons lol. He isn't double the player Benji is....no chance.

I don't think it's even Cronk. For some reason a number of homies on this forum really haven't warmed to Benji. They look for any angle they can possibly find to call for his forced exit.

 

[BrissyRedV]

To be perfectly honest, I agree with your basic analysis about continuing forward. I have only ever called Widdop out in reply to homies talking about getting rid of Benji (because he only had the 2nd most try assists in the worst attacking team? Because he only finished 3rd in the Dally M despite playing 3 or 4 fewer games than Widdop? Because the Dragons were only flogged in every game in which Benji didn't play?).

Just a few points. It wasn't only the Brisbane game. The one I remember vividly was the second Shonkies game. Surely if the team wasn't so depleted already Widdop would have been hooked. It was at least one or two more games as well. Maybe more.

The Tigers gave the Warriors one of the biggest blood lettings of the year the week after the Dragons and then the Dragons beat the Tigers one or two weeks later.

The point is that the competition is very even. Almost any team can beat almost any other any given week providing teams with one especially vital player is playing. Like NZ with Johnson, NQ with Thurston or based on last season, Dragons without Marshall.

Happy? Can we be friends again now?

Widdop only just finished outside the top 10 the try assists and on balance with tries included finished equal with Benji. The Dally M I do not take as gospel as best on park either.

From memory, were we not so heavily depleted that night we had Green on the bench? Every player has a bad game every once and again and the norm is it is usually when their partner in crime is not on the field as they try and over play their hand. The Panthers game comes to mind when Benji had a pretty poor game but was lucky to Widdop playing to pick up the slack.

The Tigers also put some points past us but the more remarkable thing about the Warriors game v us, After Benji went down injured we were able to adapt and overcome what was a big loss for us on the paddock. The bloke leading that was Widdop.

It is very even, and we need BOTH our key play makers on the field. I know you don't rate Widdop anything more than 'workman' like, but I see more.

 

[Vasilevsky]

Let me stop you right there. No he can't. He definitely can not. Not even close. I can't shut this idea down enough.

This is the type of reply I would expect from "coast-dragons" or "country-dragons" (I wonder if they are actually the same person?). Very uncharacteristic! "Saintsified" is right IMO. Benji can obviously play halfback and do it well. Do you think Cronk could do well at 5/8? I very much doubt it.

 

[Vasilevsky]

It is very even, and we need BOTH our key play makers on the field. I know you don't rate Widdop anything more than 'workman' like, but I see more.

Great. Well can we agree that this season with the stronger forwards both Widdop and Benji have to take the ball to the line and consistently cause trouble for enemy defences with their passing, running or preferably both?

If only one of them does that can we agree that the other should be on no more than 350-400k a year? If the team is struggling with only one of them doing that, the club should look for a replacement ASAP? If neither are doing that, god help us.

 

[Saintsified]

This is the type of reply I would expect from "coast-dragons" or "country-dragons" (I wonder if they are actually the same person?). Very uncharacteristic! "Saintsified" is right IMO. Benji can obviously play halfback and do it well. Do you think Cronk could do well at 5/8? I very much doubt it.

Means Benji is the better player and better valued player fullstop.

 

[BrissyRedV]

Great. Well can we agree that this season with the stronger forwards both Widdop and Benji have to take the ball to the line and consistently cause trouble for enemy defences with their passing, running or preferably both?

If only one of them does that can we agree that the other should be on no more than 350-400k a year? If the team is struggling with only one of them doing that, the club should look for a replacement ASAP? If neither are doing that, god help us.

I will sign off on the top statement with the caveat that we need the rest of the spine to step up as well to truly push us to the top of the ladder.

The bottom statement, we should always be looking at the best available.

 

[Jubileeboy]

Great. Well can we agree that this season with the stronger forwards both Widdop and Benji have to take the ball to the line and consistently cause trouble for enemy defences with their passing, running or preferably both?

If only one of them does that can we agree that the other should be on no more than 350-400k a year? If the team is struggling with only one of them doing that, the club should look for a replacement ASAP? If neither are doing that, god help us.

Here is your first factual post.
You are on the money about the money. $350k is the exact amount the club pays one of them. The balance is through TPA's.

 

[Old Timer]

This is the type of reply I would expect from "coast-dragons" or "country-dragons" (I wonder if they are actually the same person?). Very uncharacteristic! "Saintsified" is right IMO. Benji can obviously play halfback and do it well. Do you think Cronk could do well at 5/8? I very much doubt it.

Cronk doesn't have to be able to play 5/8 we already have 2 so that question has no relevance.

The question is pure and simple if Cronk is available and is a better half than anyone else on our books should we try to get him IMO yes.

The next question is who should play 6 and the best person should play there.

Get that all out of the road then sort out the best people in all other positions with just 1 caveat that the natural order may need to be altered slightly to give some balance IE Widdop to FB and Dugan to centre whilst not my preferred position totally understandable given the circumstances that are potentially available.

If Cronk is not available then the dynamics change.

This is not about is Benji better than Widdop or vice versa nor is it about whether Benji is more versatile than Cronk it is simply about if a significantly better half back is available should we try to get him.

 

[kit66]

Cooper is a great little player but I wouldn't like to see us sign him at Benji's expense, especially at 33 years old. Benji's a better player and is more valuable to a team that struggles to score points. Cronk is great at playing percentage footy and providing stability and direction for his team but so is Widdop. Plus Cronk would still command a large pay packet whereas both Benji and Widdop would be much more economical.

 

[Saintsified]

cooper is a great little player but i wouldn't like to see us sign him at benji's expense, especially at 33 years old. Benji's a better player and is more valuable to a team that struggles to score points. Cronk is great at playing percentage footy and providing stability and direction for his team but so is widdop. Plus cronk would still command a large pay packet whereas both benji and widdop would be much more economical.

10/10

 

[Minh]

Be happy that we have both Benji and Widdop in our team, they are both amazing players....I wouldn't lose either one of these two players and then add more money to buy Cooper Cronk.

 

[Old Timer]

Cooper is a great little player but I wouldn't like to see us sign him at Benji's expense, especially at 33 years old. Benji's a better player and is more valuable to a team that struggles to score points. Cronk is great at playing percentage footy and providing stability and direction for his team but so is Widdop. Plus Cronk would still command a large pay packet whereas both Benji and Widdop would be much more economical.

If Benji is more valuable to a team that struggles to score points as per your post god help us because we finished bottom 2 with him in our side so not sure your argument is a ringing endorsement.

If Cronk remains healthy he will retain the Australian half back job for at least a year or two so if good enough for the national team why not us?

The pay packet issue should not cloud the judgement as we have been living with a full cap with a a lot of crap for a lot of years so get the quality player whilst you can afford him.

 

[_Johnsy]

I don't think it's even Cronk. For some reason a number of homies on this forum really haven't warmed to Benji. They look for any angle they can possibly find to call for his forced exit.

Conversely, some will look for any reason to blow warm wind up his ass and then look for any angle to denigrate Widdop.

 

[Blood Shot Eyes]

Be happy that we have both Benji and Widdop in our team, they are both amazing players....I wouldn't lose either one of these two players and then add more money to buy Cooper Cronk.

I agree with you Minh......its great that we have added to our squad for depth this year , but losing some to add others no matter who they are and spending more coin is pointless at this stage...that's of course unless your like the Donkeys that don't appear to have salary issues...you know nudge nudge wink wink.....

 

[kit66]

If Benji is more valuable to a team that struggles to score points as per your post god help us because we finished bottom 2 with him in our side so not sure your argument is a ringing endorsement.

If Cronk remains healthy he will retain the Australian half back job for at least a year or two so if good enough for the national team why not us?

The pay packet issue should not cloud the judgement as we have been living with a full cap with a a lot of crap for a lot of years so get the quality player whilst you can afford him.

Benji had the 2nd most try assists in 2015 only behind JT. Not bad in a team whose backs 1-5 changed every second week ( I exaggerate but I'm not far off ) and who numbered rookies, fringe 1st graders, those carrying injuries and some outright rubbish players - in attack anyway. Most tries in any team come from the backline so you can't really blame Benji for our poor showing on that account. 2016 should provide us with more scoring opportunities and you'd expect Benji to be among the best once again in assists.

If Benji and Widdop fire this year with our improved roster ( as we hope they will ) why would we need Cronk. Widdop is only 26 and serving us well and Benji is doing what we bought him to do and is hopefully open to extending for a year or two.
I also don't particularly like the idea of Cronk using us as part of his retirement plan.

 

[watatank]

Actually the only reason Benji wasn't in the QLD was because he stayed loyal to NZ...had he if accepted then JT wouldn't have been there....with QLD and the loyalty they show Benji would still be in the team.

Yeah that and he had Lockyer and Prince ahead of him (Thurston after that) and that he was struggling with injuries early in his career.

 

[BennyV]

He didn't play a traditional 7 roll though.

This is what Val has been talking about, I think, dragons are playing with two 5/8 on the paddock. The responsibility to try and control the game is resting on both and at times it doesn't work

Vas isn't the only one arguing this, everyone agrees that we have 2 players playing as 5/8s. The disagreement comes from how we solve this.

Happy? Can we be friends again now?

If so, I reserve the right to argue any point of yours I disagree with. I assume you reserve the same right.

 

[BennyV]

Actually the only reason Benji wasn't in the QLD was because he stayed loyal to NZ...had he if accepted then JT wouldn't have been there....with QLD and the loyalty they show Benji would still be in the team.

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh what?!

Benji was a 5/8 in 2005 when they won the premiership. QLD had a fairly decent player by the name of Darren Lockyer playing in that position at that time, and he continued playing in that position until his last series in 2011. No way in hell a youngster takes that position from him. They have a choice, then, between a young, exciting actual halfback or a young, exciting centre-come-5/8 to play alongside Lockyer, and there's no way they choose the latter in 2005. Even with Thurston out, Benji's halfback partner Prince would have been preferred. Marshall may have got a bench spot, at best.

From 2006 until 2010, Marshall suffered severe injury issues. By the 2010-11 season, when Marshall was in career best form, QLD had 2 of the best in the world in their halves, plus Cronk established on the bench, where he has the size, defensive capability and overall skillset to fill in at hooker (something Marshall didn't have). In 2012, following Lockyers retirement, the Tigpies plank, Marshall loses form (particularly at halfback), and with that, all chance of getting elected to take their reigns for QLD. Meanings then sticks with his original plan of shifting JT to 5/8 and starting Cronk at 7.

In summary, no, Benji would not have been elected over JT at halfback, JT would still be the superstar he is today and Cronk would still be the best 7 in the world!

 

[GaryW]

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh what?!

Benji was a 5/8 in 2005 when they won the premiership. QLD had a fairly decent player by the name of Darren Lockyer playing in that position at that time, and he continued playing in that position until his last series in 2011. No way in hell a youngster takes that position from him. They have a choice, then, between a young, exciting actual halfback or a young, exciting centre-come-5/8 to play alongside Lockyer, and there's no way they choose the latter in 2005. Even with Thurston out, Benji's halfback partner Prince would have been preferred. Marshall may have got a bench spot, at best.

From 2006 until 2010, Marshall suffered severe injury issues. By the 2010-11 season, when Marshall was in career best form, QLD had 2 of the best in the world in their halves, plus Cronk established on the bench, where he has the size, defensive capability and overall skillset to fill in at hooker (something Marshall didn't have). In 2012, following Lockyers retirement, the Tigpies plank, Marshall loses form (particularly at halfback), and with that, all chance of getting elected to take their reigns for QLD. Meanings then sticks with his original plan of shifting JT to 5/8 and starting Cronk at 7.

In summary, no, Benji would not have been elected over JT at halfback, JT would still be the superstar he is today and Cronk would still be the best 7 in the world!

Correct on all fronts 👍

 

[The Nick]

I was being sarcastic, Benji may not be as good as Cronk at 7 but he is still capable of playing a decent 7....can Cronk play any other position? Benji did and can...so for me he is overall the better player.

You know Cronk played 2nd row in the QLD Cup, right? And upon debuting with Melbourne he played a utility role off the bench covering hooker, lock and halves (yes including 5/8).

He developed into a halfback under the tutelage of Matthew Johns.

So yes, he can cover several positions, making him slightly more versatile than Benji who can switch between 6 and 7.......

This is the type of reply I would expect from "coast-dragons" or "country-dragons" (I wonder if they are actually the same person?). Very uncharacteristic! "Saintsified" is right IMO. Benji can obviously play halfback and do it well. Do you think Cronk could do well at 5/8? I very much doubt it.

Read above post.






All this is irrelevant, however as Cronk is 100% not coming to the Dragons. The Daily Telegraph (who floated the rumour) aren't even pushing the story anymore. It was purely click bait to kick off 2016.

Now let's continue the Widdop v Marshall debate in every other thread.