Gold Coast Bears/Nth Sydney/Gosford

[Perth Red]

So from all of that knowledge you choose a destructionist path for the game In Australia! Either you are a hypocrite or something isn't wired right? Absolutely amazing disrespect ! And I thought u had no knowledge of how significant the Sydney clubs are for the NRL. And u clearly do! Incredible! Give yourself an upper cut!

If you've got an old house falling down you don't waste money continually trying to fix it up. You accept it has reached the end of its useful life, demolish it and build something bigger and better. It's not a bad anaology for where NRL needs to go if it is ever to be as big as it could be.

AFL spent more Grant money on st kilda and Melb Bulldogs in 2016 than the GC Suns! I can see a time if tv deals go south when they will have little option but to rationalise Melbourne

 

[Perth Red]

If you have feeling for the Bears thats a Sydney club. You are advocating the elimination of more such clubs. Perhaps a hypocritical thought process and definitely a person with no soul and respect for history, tradition and relevance. You dismiss these vital words as if they dont matter! Well they do matter. And this is where your logic dismally fails. Shame on you!
And dont kid yourself! You are the one that needs a reality check. The Sydney clubs are real and have real fans all over Australia. Your ideological and reckless regard for this competition is both ignorant and lacks wise business accumen. You dont rid a competition of established markets! Golden rule.

The NFL has done just fine when clubs moved from traditional cities
The epl does fine when traditional clubs get relegated year on year
The nrl is just fine without the bears and stand alone identities of st's, Balmain, Wests etc

You keep saying that these nine Sydney clubs are essential foundation of the games health but I see little evidence that this is the case or that nine is some magical number that is necessary to keep the game popular in Sydney.

 

[Perth Red]

PR, I don't disagree with you about rationalisation of Sydney but which should be the super clubs?

Paramatta, Canterbury, Souths, St George-Illawarra, Wests Tigers seem to be the biggest (I could be wrong about that) but do you put the rest in NSW Cup? Do you relocate some (Many or Roosters to Gosford)?

I think your proposal makes sense and it opens up spots in the top teir to start developing larger city markets (look how far Melbourne have come since their humble beginnings), but I do worry about further apathy towards the game in Sydney that would come with removing two or three clubs.

Those would be the obvious big five supporter bases in Sydney. There possibly an argument for a north shore club with redefined boundaries taking in the whole north Sydney/manly region. Roosters have big corporate support and good stadium if a limited fanbase. This may be addressed by club sharing with Gosford as a second home and fanbase/jnr region.

The weakest three from a supporter base would be sharks, panthers and manly. Wests I have my doubts about unless they can sort out their boardroom problems and move to a decent single stadium and despite Souths success in getting members if rusty ever pulls the pin I can see them back in strife very quickly.

Given any additional club is going to cost an extra $13million plus I wonder if the nrl put out a $5-10mill a year additional funding forever offer to clubs if they relocated to Perth or Brisbane if any would be tempted? A guaranteed nrl funding of say $20mill a year is a mighty big carrot!

 

[Stallion]

If you've got an old house falling down you don't waste money continually trying to fix it up. You accept it has reached the end of its useful life, demolish it and build something bigger and better. It's not a bad anaology for where NRL needs to go if it is ever to be as big as it could be.

AFL spent more Grant money on st kilda and Melb Bulldogs in 2016 than the GC Suns! I can see a time if tv deals go south when they will have little option but to rationalise Melbourne

However the house is built on the same ground with the same view!

 

[Stallion]

The NFL has done just fine when clubs moved from traditional cities
The epl does fine when traditional clubs get relegated year on year
The nrl is just fine without the bears and stand alone identities of st's, Balmain, Wests etc

You keep saying that these nine Sydney clubs are essential foundation of the games health but I see little evidence that this is the case or that nine is some magical number that is necessary to keep the game popular in Sydney.

This is where we differ! The NRL is not fine with losing the Bears , Balmain and Wests Magpies. Their are many supporters that have left rugby league as a result. You assumptions are way out of touch. If you cease trying to carve up the ganes foundations in the most densely populated city in Australia then genuine expansion may take place with long overdue clubs such as Perth and Brisbane2 being welcomed. However you seek to white ant the game and take away longstanding relevance and rivalries in Sydney (the origins of this comp) Im for promotion and relegation in the Sydney metropolitan area. However the top flight number of clubs needs to be at least 9 or 10 clubs with aspiring clubs biding their time in the relegated division. This will work. Your slash and burn approach is suicidal for this code in Australia. Ignoring the tyrrany of distance and where the population base is and its history are mistakes you are continually making in your 'ideas' for the NRL.

 

[Stallion]

The NFL has done just fine when clubs moved from traditional cities
The epl does fine when traditional clubs get relegated year on year
The nrl is just fine without the bears and stand alone identities of st's, Balmain, Wests etc

You keep saying that these nine Sydney clubs are essential foundation of the games health but I see little evidence that this is the case or that nine is some magical number that is necessary to keep the game popular in Sydney.

Should be ten top flight clubs in Sydney/Central Coast!

 

[Perth Red]

Why? For 5 million people, half of which don't care about nrl? Why ten?

 

[titoelcolombiano]

Those would be the obvious big five supporter bases in Sydney. There possibly an argument for a north shore club with redefined boundaries taking in the whole north Sydney/manly region. Roosters have big corporate support and good stadium if a limited fanbase. This may be addressed by club sharing with Gosford as a second home and fanbase/jnr region.

The weakest three from a supporter base would be sharks, panthers and manly. Wests I have my doubts about unless they can sort out their boardroom problems and move to a decent single stadium and despite Souths success in getting members if rusty ever pulls the pin I can see them back in strife very quickly.

Given any additional club is going to cost an extra $13million plus I wonder if the nrl put out a $5-10mill a year additional funding forever offer to clubs if they relocated to Perth or Brisbane if any would be tempted? A guaranteed nrl funding of say $20mill a year is a mighty big carrot!

So maybe the comp should look something like:
North QLD
Broncos
Brisbane 2 (2023)
Gold Coast
Auckland
NZ2 (2028)
Central Coast Roosters
Newcastle Knights
North Sydney (One of Bears or Manly)
South Sydney
St George Illawarra Dragons (Wollongong)
Canterbury
Parramatta
Wests Tigers (Campbeltown)
Canberra
Melbourne
Perth (2023)
Adelaide (not before 2030)

18 teams
- coverage in 6 of 8 states / territories of Australia
- QLD Cup to include Northern Territory
- Tasmania to receive 6 games a year from various visiting NRL teams
- Expansion in New Zealand to increase their player pool and professional opportunities at home
- Presence of 5 clubs in Sydney (3 of which are large clubs with modern stadia; Dogs, Eels, Souths, Tigers to play out of Campbeltown and claim the area - with hopefully an upgrade to Campbeltown Stadium)
- Retention of the Roosters and Dragons brands in the competition to not disenfranchise too many fans and ensuring that these clubs play the Sydney clubs away each year so that they are a continued presence in the city
- PNG, Fiji and any other interested Pac Island teams represented in the second teir as a pathway from the local comp to the second teir then to NRL contracts

This seems great, the only thing I really worry about is the relegation of the Sharks and Panthers to NSW Cup and the ill will towards the game caused by it. The media will jump all over it even though the clubs will still exist. I am not a fan of relocating these two to say Perth or Adelaide so I don't really see this as an option - just my opinion though.

 

[Stallion]

So maybe the comp should look something like:
North QLD
Broncos
Brisbane 2 (2023)
Gold Coast
Auckland
NZ2 (2028)
Central Coast Roosters
Newcastle Knights
North Sydney (One of Bears or Manly)
South Sydney
St George Illawarra Dragons (Wollongong)
Canterbury
Parramatta
Wests Tigers (Campbeltown)
Canberra
Melbourne
Perth (2023)
Adelaide (not before 2030)

18 teams
- coverage in 6 of 8 states / territories of Australia
- QLD Cup to include Northern Territory
- Tasmania to receive 6 games a year from various visiting NRL teams
- Expansion in New Zealand to increase their player pool and professional opportunities at home
- Presence of 5 clubs in Sydney (4 of which are large clubs with modern stadia; Dogs, Eels, Souths, Tigers)
- Retention of the Roosters and Dragons brands in the competition to not disenfranchise too many fans and ensuring that these clubs play the Sydney clubs away each year so that they are a continued presence in the city
- PNG, Fiji and any other interested Pac Island teams represented in the second teir as a pathway from the local comp to the second teir then to NRL contracts

This seems great, the only thing I really worry about is the relegation of the Sharks and Panthers to NSW Cup and the ill will towards the game caused by it. The media will jump all over it even thought he clubs will still exist. I am not a fan of relocating these two to say Perth or Adelaide so I don't really see this as an option - just my opinion though.

Should be 20 clubs in top. flight more rugby league equals more opportunity and more interest. Respecting the foundation of the game in Sydney is paramount.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

Should be 20 clubs in top. flight more rugby league equals more opportunity and more interest. Respecting the foundation of the game in Sydney is paramount.

Yes, I can't argue with that if the game can afford it. With the above market covered I guess it gives us the chance to retain the Sharks and Panthers.

 

[Stallion]

Why? For 5 million people, half of which don't care about nrl? Why ten?

Thanks for the question. Ten will be a suitable number for a number of reasons. If you count the 8.5 top flight clubs now as 9 the reinstatement of the North Sydney Bears as the Central Coast Bears is a very appropriate and positive move. Getting back the Bears fans, influential business district and giving regular top flight footy to the Central Coast is a win/win. Not to mention the local derbies created as a result.
With ten teams in Sydney and ten 'expansion' clubs it fits well for a 20 team competition. Two conferences. The Sydney metropolitan conference having promotion and relegation status and the 'expansion conference' having permanent status due to their geographical isolation. Clubs within each confetence would play eachother twice and a preference or rotational mix for the remaining games that are on a interconference basis. For instance, if Manly wanted to play Melbourne and vice versa this game would occur. Clubs would nominate the clubs they would like to play against or a rotational mix of games would occur from year to year. This is only a rough idea but I think it has merit. It can be tweeked to suit as required.

 

[T-Boon]

Central Coast Roosters

So they can be a bit nomadic the Roosters could just be called the Central Roosters.

 

[Hello, I'm The Doctor]

Ive got a question/idea im hoping some QLDers here can help me with (or shoot down if its too stupid)....

I have said previously that i think the Titans should consider rebranding as the South Queensland Titans and go head-to-head with the Broncos for non-Brisbane RL fans. While i dont seem to have gotten much support for the idea, i think the point still stands; the Broncos have established themselves as the team for all of South Queensland with the Titans have allowed themselves to be isolated to the Gold Coast.

I think dealing with this is the first order of business for whoever takes over the Titans next; Titans should be establishing a "Brisbane City VS the rest of us" image to their rivalry. Leave the city to the Bronx and represent the country areas they have abandoned (Note: this is rhetoric)

So, what if the Titans were to rebrand as the Gold Coast-Logan City Titans (in the same breathe as Manly-Warringah, Cronulla-Sutherland or Canteberry-Bankstown). Not only would it immediately establish the Titans as the team for another half a million people, it would also be a stepping stone to saying "we also represent all of regional SEQLD. Ipswich, Tawoomba, etc."

I understand that the name would only be the beginning, but a symbolic move like this would go a long way.

Anyway, my question is: Could a Gold Coast-Logan team work or are they too culturally dissimilar or geograpically separate? I genuinely have no idea...

 

[Stallion]

Ive got a question/idea im hoping some QLDers here can help me with (or shoot down if its too stupid)....

I have said previously that i think the Titans should consider rebranding as the South Queensland Titans and go head-to-head with the Broncos for non-Brisbane RL fans. While i dont seem to have gotten much support for the idea, i think the point still stands; the Broncos have established themselves as the team for all of South Queensland with the Titans have allowed themselves to be isolated to the Gold Coast.

I think dealing with this is the first order of business for whoever takes over the Titans next; Titans should be establishing a "Brisbane City VS the rest of us" image to their rivalry. Leave the city to the Bronx and represent the country areas they have abandoned (Note: this is rhetoric)

So, what if the Titans were to rebrand as the Gold Coast-Logan City Titans (in the same breathe as Manly-Warringah, Cronulla-Sutherland or Canteberry-Bankstown). Not only would it immediately establish the Titans as the team for another half a million people, it would also be a stepping stone to saying "we also represent all of regional SEQLD. Ipswich, Tawoomba, etc."

I understand that the name would only be the beginning, but a symbolic move like this would go a long way.

Anyway, my question is: Could a Gold Coast-Logan team work or are they too culturally dissimilar or geograpically separate? I genuinely have no idea...

Not a bad call Doctor. First time Ive seen some decent logic coming out! Im more of a development/ exponential growth advocate and think a 2nd Brisbane club along with the Gold Coast is a must. A scenario whereby Central Coast Bears came to fruition and the Gold Coast Ipswich Titans existed could work. Given some people can't fathom (I still cant work this logic out?)additional clubs, its not a bad compromise.

 

[Stormwarrior82]

Should be ten top flight clubs in Sydney/Central Coast!

Do you honestly think Sydney can support that considering they are struggling with 9?

What do you think should happen to a Sydney team that can’t support themselves? Add another team?

 

[Stormwarrior82]

Ive got a question/idea im hoping some QLDers here can help me with (or shoot down if its too stupid)....

I have said previously that i think the Titans should consider rebranding as the South Queensland Titans and go head-to-head with the Broncos for non-Brisbane RL fans. While i dont seem to have gotten much support for the idea, i think the point still stands; the Broncos have established themselves as the team for all of South Queensland with the Titans have allowed themselves to be isolated to the Gold Coast.

I think dealing with this is the first order of business for whoever takes over the Titans next; Titans should be establishing a "Brisbane City VS the rest of us" image to their rivalry. Leave the city to the Bronx and represent the country areas they have abandoned (Note: this is rhetoric)

So, what if the Titans were to rebrand as the Gold Coast-Logan City Titans (in the same breathe as Manly-Warringah, Cronulla-Sutherland or Canteberry-Bankstown). Not only would it immediately establish the Titans as the team for another half a million people, it would also be a stepping stone to saying "we also represent all of regional SEQLD. Ipswich, Tawoomba, etc."

I understand that the name would only be the beginning, but a symbolic move like this would go a long way.

Anyway, my question is: Could a Gold Coast-Logan team work or are they too culturally dissimilar or geograpically separate? I genuinely have no idea...

The Broncs have been trying to shore up Logan for a while but not sure of there success. Parker, Smith were both from Logan. Logan area has a lot of islanders that are built for league. I would think that ideally, like you said, Gold Coast would benefit greatly by getting Logan or at least half of it and even down into nsw. Broncs should stay with brisbane city and Brisbane 2 should be West brisbane (Ipswich,Springfield, toowoomba, other half of Logan).

 

[taipan]

Do you honestly think Sydney can support that considering they are struggling with 9?

What do you think should happen to a Sydney team that can’t support themselves? Add another team?

The Sydney teams that have run up the biggest losses of late are those with the biggest supporter base.ie Bulldogs & Parramatta.Thus who is struggling?

 

[Stormwarrior82]

The Sydney teams that have run up the biggest losses of late are those with the biggest supporter base.ie Bulldogs & Parramatta.Thus who is struggling?

Yes biggest football loss but let’s be honest, bulldogs loss was because of $25mil center of excellence and haslers spending. And parra loss was due to there executives being idiots. Both massive leagues clubs that use the Nrl clubs name, easily fund the shortfall. They are hardly struggling.

 

[taipan]

Yes biggest football loss but let’s be honest, bulldogs loss was because of $25mil center of excellence and haslers spending. And parra loss was due to there executives being idiots. Both massive leagues clubs that use the Nrl clubs name, easily fund the shortfall. They are hardly struggling.

My point is you can have the biggest clubs ,biggest fan base and still run into trouble due to incompetence,bad player recruitment roster.
That's why having all clubs with the same decent grant should be able to perform at break even at worst.Meaning Sydney clubs.And that includes a cap on football dept spending.
ST George had a massive Leagues club at one stage, the biggest and look at the situation now.Doesn't last forever.
We don't need any more mergers or relocations, other codes are quite happy to fill the gaps.

 

[Stallion]

Do you honestly think Sydney can support that considering they are struggling with 9?

What do you think should happen to a Sydney team that can’t support themselves? Add another team?

Absolutely ten teams. You cannot tell me that the North Sydney Bears would not benefit rugby league in Sydney and the Central Coast as the Central Coast Bears. I'd also like to see the West Tigers name change to the Balmain Campbelltown Tigers and West Suburbs Magpies transform into a genuine expansion club called the Wests Coast Magpies. These clubs wearing their original colours would be appropriate as well. By doing this you would recapture lost fans, gain new areas, consolidate the game in Sydney and promote historical relevance with reintroducing iconic names resurrected in some form with exponential growth as the end result. The other path of weakening the game will not create exponential growth. In fact it will weaken the game as has been witnessed to date. Inviting other codes to capitalise on strategic mistakes will only decimate rugby league and strengthen rival codes.