Gold Coast Bears/Nth Sydney/Gosford

[Stormwarrior82]

My point is you can have the biggest clubs ,biggest fan base and still run into trouble due to incompetence,bad player recruitment roster.
That's why having all clubs with the same decent grant should be able to perform at break even at worst.Meaning Sydney clubs.And that includes a cap on football dept spending.
ST George had a massive Leagues club at one stage, the biggest and look at the situation now.Doesn't last forever.
We don't need any more mergers or relocations, other codes are quite happy to fill the gaps.

I can accept that. But clubs right now have never had it better. It was less than 15 yrs ago that clubs were funding the salary cap themselves. With all the money the clubs are receiving you have to admit that if a club can’t survive with all this money they don’t deserve to be in the comp. yes they have history but so do a lot of clubs. Brisbane football clubs have a lot of history too but no one cares about them when the arl Expanded. Im happy for all the clubs currently in the Nrl and in Sydney to stay. But if the clubs don’t improve there financial situation with all the money they get, I feel it would be best for the club to over time to merge or relocate. It would be done over a 5 yr period where more and more games go to the new location etc.

Case and point, the bears. All they want is to be in the Nrl at any cost. They would white ant any club to get that chance. If a current club can’t survive. They would have to change there future plans. Simple as that.

 

[Hello, I'm The Doctor]

My point is you can have the biggest clubs ,biggest fan base and still run into trouble due to incompetence,bad player recruitment roster.
That's why having all clubs with the same decent grant should be able to perform at break even at worst.Meaning Sydney clubs.And that includes a cap on football dept spending.
ST George had a massive Leagues club at one stage, the biggest and look at the situation now.Doesn't last forever.
We don't need any more mergers or relocations, other codes are quite happy to fill the gaps.

These big clubs DO break even, claiming a loss is just an accounting trick...

They know it will all be covered by the Leagues club, but they announce the number minus this as a way of leveraging the ARLC into giving them more money or some other condition.

Profit/loss usually means little if anything to clubs in this league.

 

[Stallion]

I can accept that. But clubs right now have never had it better. It was less than 15 yrs ago that clubs were funding the salary cap themselves. With all the money the clubs are receiving you have to admit that if a club can’t survive with all this money they don’t deserve to be in the comp. yes they have history but so do a lot of clubs. Brisbane football clubs have a lot of history too but no one cares about them when the arl Expanded. Im happy for all the clubs currently in the Nrl and in Sydney to stay. But if the clubs don’t improve there financial situation with all the money they get, I feel it would be best for the club to over time to merge or relocate. It would be done over a 5 yr period where more and more games go to the new location etc.

Case and point, the bears. All they want is to be in the Nrl at any cost. They would white ant any club to get that chance. If a current club can’t survive. They would have to change there future plans. Simple as that.

I would suggest that it should be common sense and good business accumen for the North Sydney Bears to be back in the top flight as the Central Coast Bears. Its a win/win. You gain back a traditional area full of business contacts and gain a decent sized coastal area in the form of Central Coast with a purpose built football ground right on the railway line. If that's not a wise decision for the game, I'm not sure what is!

 

[Hello, I'm The Doctor]

Absolutely ten teams. You cannot tell me that the North Sydney Bears would not benefit rugby league in Sydney and the Central Coast as the Central Coast Bears. I'd also like to see the West Tigers name change to the Balmain Campbelltown Tigers and West Suburbs Magpies transform into a genuine expansion club called the Wests Coast Magpies. These clubs wearing their original colours would be appropriate as well. By doing this you would recapture lost fans, gain new areas, consolidate the game in Sydney and promote historical relevance with reintroducing iconic names resurrected in some form with exponential growth as the end result. The other path of weakening the game will not create exponential growth. In fact it will weaken the game as has been witnessed to date. Inviting other codes to capitalise on strategic mistakes will only decimate rugby league and strengthen rival codes.

If youre going to split and move Wests tigers, it makes much more sence to go:

Tigers > Perth (black and gold, almost state colours)
Magpies > Adelaide (Maggie is the state logo)

It would be cool seeing both of these foundation teams back in the NRL, but im not sure the expansion markets will take to Sydney's sloppy-seconds...

 

[Stallion]

If youre going to split and move Wests tigers, it makes much more sence to go:

Tigers > Perth (black and gold, almost state colours)
Magpies > Adelaide (Maggie is the state logo)

It would be cool seeing both of these foundation teams back in the NRL, but im not sure the expansion markets will take to Sydney's sloppy-seconds...

Didnt realize that the Magpie was state logo of South Australia! Not bad. I dont think its wise to carve up Balmain Campbelltown. This area should be represented in the top flight. South Australian Magpies!? It has some logic to it Doctor !

 

[Stormwarrior82]

Absolutely ten teams. You cannot tell me that the North Sydney Bears would not benefit rugby league in Sydney and the Central Coast as the Central Coast Bears. I'd also like to see the West Tigers name change to the Balmain Campbelltown Tigers and West Suburbs Magpies transform into a genuine expansion club called the Wests Coast Magpies. These clubs wearing their original colours would be appropriate as well. By doing this you would recapture lost fans, gain new areas, consolidate the game in Sydney and promote historical relevance with reintroducing iconic names resurrected in some form with exponential growth as the end result. The other path of weakening the game will not create exponential growth. In fact it will weaken the game as has been witnessed to date. Inviting other codes to capitalise on strategic mistakes will only decimate rugby league and strengthen rival codes.

That is such a Sydneycentric opinion. Every thing revolves around Sydney. Wake up... there are plenty of areas screaming for a presence let alone consolidation.

I feel when people say bring back lost fans and consolidate in Sydney I think that the current clubs aren’t trying hard enough to get them back. There are more people in Sydney than Melbourne. Sydney clubs need to do better at engaging sydneysiders. Not make more clubs.

The bears following is nothing like they suggest. They don’t have central coast fans anymore. They left that area and roosters have now taken it. They might still have central coast business but I’m sure roosters will have that soon to.

If current Sydney clubs don’t engage the Sydney people it’s there own fault. Clubs need to take accountability for there future and not rely on the Nrl for handouts.

 

[Stormwarrior82]

If youre going to split and move Wests tigers, it makes much more sence to go:

Tigers > Perth (black and gold, almost state colours)
Magpies > Adelaide (Maggie is the state logo)

It would be cool seeing both of these foundation teams back in the NRL, but im not sure the expansion markets will take to Sydney's sloppy-seconds...

I could see Adelaide working with a relocation but Perth definitely not. Perth aren’t a fan of the east coast and twiggy has said as much. Perth need there own team. They have developed enough to have there own side. A relocation there would be a big mistake in my opinion.

 

[Stallion]

I could see Adelaide working with a relocation but Perth definitely not. Perth aren’t a fan of the east coast and twiggy has said as much. Perth need there own team. They have developed enough to have there own side. A relocation there would be a big mistake in my opinion.

Agree. West Coast Pirates for Perth. South Australian Magpies for Adelaide with ties to Western Suburbs Magpies Leagues & sipporter base in Sydney. Reintroduce the iconic name of Balmain and have the Balmain Campbelltown Tigers which will secure this large area in Sydney and we have a far better outlook expansion wise and metropolitan Sydney wise. Gaining back fans and not losing them!

 

[Stormwarrior82]

Agree. Wets Coast Pirates for Perth. South Australian Magpies for Adelaide with ties to Western Suburbs Magpies Leagues & sipporter base in Sydney. Reintroduce the iconic name of Balmain and have the Balmain Campbelltown Tigers which will secure this large area in Sydney and we have a far better outlook expansion wise and metropolitan Sydney wise. Gaining back fans and not losing them!

I’m not totally sold. Hasn’t balmain struggled financially for years? They might have a big area like you suggest but could they actually support a club financially?

 

[Stallion]

I’m not totally sold. Hasn’t balmain struggled financially for years? They might have a big area like you suggest but could they actually support a club financially?

Its moreover their iconic name that is the big advantage . BALMAIN CAMPBELLTOWN TIGERS has appeal in my books. Perhaps some help to get things into place with leagues club/ sponsorship and an iconic well known brand with a Sydney growth area is established. A win/win!

 

[Perth Red]

I’m not totally sold. Hasn’t balmain struggled financially for years? They might have a big area like you suggest but could they actually support a club financially?

Balmain have no money and little corporate backing, they'd be gone by now if it wasn't for Wests keeping the Wests Tigers afloat. Stallion claiming they could break away from the one thing keeping them alive and stand alone shows how rose tinted his Sydney rl glasses are!

Let's be honest there are very few Sydney clubs that can survive on football generated revenue alone. Look at how st's have struggled when their pokies dried up.

 

[Stallion]

Balmain have no money and little corporate backing, they'd be gone by now if it wasn't for Wests keeping the Wests Tigers afloat. Stallion claiming they could break away from the one thing keeping them alive and stand alone shows how rose tinted his Sydney rl glasses are!

Let's be honest there are very few Sydney clubs that can survive on football generated revenue alone. Look at how st's have struggled when their pokies dried up.

That's dissapointing off you Red. Thought you had realised the damage caused by weakening the game's historical advantage in Sydney? The Balmain name is extremely iconic and I am sure you have underestimated the memories and rapport people have for sure for such iconic clubs when growing up. Once again I'm all for genuine expansion however not at the expense of the fabric and relevance of the game and interest in its colorful history/origins in Sydney. Additional clubs are fine. No more blood letting and what I'm about is healing some of the wounds inflicted to date.

 

[Perth Red]

No because there has been very little weakening by reducing Sydney by 3 stand alone clubs. You can keep saying it but show me some facts. Here's mine that disproves your theory:
1. Tv Audience overall higher in Sydney
2. Avg crowd per Sydney club higher overall
3. Jnr numbers higher overall
4. Individual clubs revenue higher than before

Pre mergers the best supported Sydney club had an 11k crowd avg.

Nine teams in one city is crazy and an historic anomaly. No sport other than 2 Australian ones have this level of over saturation in one city and both of those are financially struggling to sustain them. Kind of tells you something!

NRL won't expand the comp to 20 teams so you only have two options. Don't grow the game or consolidate the over saturation of Sydney to create a space for the game to grow.

 

[siv]

No because there has been very little weakening by reducing Sydney by 3 stand alone clubs. You can keep saying it but show me some facts. Here's mine that disproves your theory:
1. Tv Audience overall higher in Sydney
2. Avg crowd per Sydney club higher overall
3. Jnr numbers higher overall
4. Individual clubs revenue higher than before

Pre mergers the best supported Sydney club had an 11k crowd avg.

Nine teams in one city is crazy and an historic anomaly. No sport other than 2 Australian ones have this level of over saturation in one city and both of those are financially struggling to sustain them. Kind of tells you something!

NRL won't expand the comp to 20 teams so you only have two options. Don't grow the game or consolidate the over saturation of Sydney to create a space for the game to grow.

First question you need to ask - ignoring who plays

What is the structure we should have for the elite comp

12 teams 22 rounds
14 teams 26 rounds (ala NRL peace deal)
16 teams 24 rounds (ie today)
18 teams 25 rounds
20 teams 19 rounds
24 teams 23 rounds

QRL premiers v NSW premiers superbowl

 

[Stallion]

No because there has been very little weakening by reducing Sydney by 3 stand alone clubs. You can keep saying it but show me some facts. Here's mine that disproves your theory:
1. Tv Audience overall higher in Sydney
2. Avg crowd per Sydney club higher overall
3. Jnr numbers higher overall
4. Individual clubs revenue higher than before

Pre mergers the best supported Sydney club had an 11k crowd avg.

Nine teams in one city is crazy and an historic anomaly. No sport other than 2 Australian ones have this level of over saturation in one city and both of those are financially struggling to sustain them. Kind of tells you something!

NRL won't expand the comp to 20 teams so you only have two options. Don't grow the game or consolidate the over saturation of Sydney to create a space for the game to grow.

Australia ,one of the most expansive nations on earth with a very high percentage of its population in both Sydney and Melbourne. Go figure! Clubs should be where the people are! That makes sense! Its the way things are in OZ. You should respect that.
Where did you get the junior numbers myth!? Numbers, particularly at boy level have dropped significantly. If your figures are including female participation then that's misleading. You continue do go on your path of destruction for the core of this vulnerable game in Sydney. The established clubs and names are a massive advantage on other codes! And you want to throw that out?! Amazing lack of respect for the origins of a world class competition. Show some respect. Funnily enough I have no issue with expansion yet you would be happy with killing off clubs instead of the exponential growth gained for the code with additional clubs? Incredible!

 

[Vee]

I'm glad he's stalking you now PR. Thanks for taking over.

 

[Stallion]

I'm glad he's stalking you now PR. Thanks for taking over.

Thanks for the wrap V! I know its not , however alot of things you say and think are inconsistent. Just thought I'd point that out. You have a good history in supporting one thing and then opposing the same thing later onl Rock solid champ!

 

[Vee]

Thanks for the wrap V! I know its not , however alot of things you say and think are inconsistent. Just thought I'd point that out. You have a good history in supporting one thing and then opposing the same thing later onl Rock solid champ!

And you can say whatever you like as many times as you like but it still doesn’t make it any more true.

 

[Stallion]

And you can say whatever you like as many times as you like but it still doesn’t make it any more true.

Lol. I'm not the one agreeing to a number of posts and then opposing them later on!

 

[Vee]

Lol. I'm not the one agreeing to a number of posts and then opposing them later on!

And again, see above.