Worldwide Halves Problem

[Springs09]

Moving the defence forward from 10m to 5-7m will make the game even easier for the defence to pick off the attack. I think that will have the opposite effect mate to what you want hey.

One simple rule change I have posted a few times about is restarts after penalty goals. At the moment defences will just give away penalties on their goal line because it gives them the chance to reset or give away 2pts with the restart seeing the ball kicked off from halfway and requiring the team offended to truck it out from their own goal line. An error by the team with the ball sees the team that gave away a penalty a few mins ago with great field position. It’s f**king ludicrous.

Coaches are happy for their teams to do this and it enfuriates me seeing the game turn into a farce on the goal lines.

My solution, make the restart from a successful penalty goal a goal line drop out, that way the team that got the penalty have the ball back in fairly decent field position and it might make the defending team think twice about giving away a penalty on their own goal line as that infringement could see them down ultimately 8pts.

Or just sin bin for professional fouls like they are supposed to.

 

[T-Boon]

I would consider retaining the 10 metres but getting rid of the requirement that marker be "square". "Square" does not make any sense to the current rules except that it is a hang over from the rugby live ruck days. Worse, it is the source of some aggravating and dubious penalties.
The "markers" should be allowed to line up anywhere they like behind the advantage line. I would even consider allowing a 3rd "marker" to allow the defense a little bit of added flexibility if the want to sacrifice someone from the defensive line.

 

[siv]

3rd marker and both not needing to be square as you say would allow the tackler to join the defensive line easier

Its also a return the old school play the ball

But getting up and then placing the ball on the ground would help.

Should be a scrum if a player uses the ball to get up

 

[Disinterested third party]

Can't agree given some of the quality young halves around (such as Fages and Hingano) who emerged on the international stage during the RLWC.

 

[T-Boon]

3rd marker and both not needing to be square as you say would allow the tackler to join the defensive line easier

Is that considered to be a bad thing?

 

[Stormwarrior82]

I think decreasing the defensive line from 10m would be a disasterous move. That would make the tacklers closer to the playmakers, making there time with the ball even less. And it would become more like union.

Fatigue, fatigue, fatigue is the answer. Maybe increase the size of the field?

 

[siv]

Is that considered to be a bad thing?

Not really but you may need to limit it to a 2m zone of the play the ball

 

[siv]

I think decreasing the defensive line from 10m would be a disasterous move. That would make the tacklers closer to the playmakers, making there time with the ball even less. And it would become more like union.

Fatigue, fatigue, fatigue is the answer. Maybe increase the size of the field?

Cant increase the pitch size only reduce the players in the defense line

 

[Force]

Moving the defence forward from 10m to 5-7m will make the game even easier for the defence to pick off the attack. I think that will have the opposite effect mate to what you want hey.

Agree...this is why its harder to attack in Union because the defence line is up closer, they only have to be 'behind most foot', basically, behind their last player in the ruck so theres not a lot of room for the attacking team.

 

[Disinterested third party]

Agree...this is why its harder to attack in Union because the defence line is up closer, they only have to be 'behind most foot', basically, behind their last player in the ruck so theres not a lot of room for the attacking team.

Yes we realised that in 1906.

 

[Stormwarrior82]

Cant increase the pitch size only reduce the players in the defense line

Yes you can’t increase the length of the field because it has to be 100m plus in goal. The width of the field however? It’s roughly 68m but would a 80m width be so bad? It would add another 1200m2 to the field and players running around more. Clearly could only happen to field that aren’t already rectangle.

 

[T-Boon]

Cant increase the pitch size only reduce the players in the defense line

Exactly. Which you could do several ways:

1. I think it was you who suggested a straight up rule where at least 2 players need to be a further 10 metres back from the line which I like the simplicity of (you could possible make the rule that you have to have 2 defenders in your own half at all times so the benefit for the attack is mainly there early in the set when we absolutely need to encourage more play making or variety); and/or

2. Somehow make the 40/20 a more constant threat that the defence needs to cover with 2 or 3 defenders or else they will get hurt; and/or

3. Reduce the players on the field to 11 a side which terrifies people but would have numerous big advantages for the code but does not really create an advantage that encourages passing and risk taking (except for the extra space); and/or;

4. Allow the defence to have more "markers" who can cut off the middle but leaves the line a bit thin.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

A few good ideas here. I like the idea where the markers can line up anywhere as long as they are in front of the play-the-ball. Maybe three markers and the fullback must be in his own half at all times when in defense. That takes an extra two players out of the defensive line and doesn't tamper with the fabric of the game to a point where it is not recognisable.

The other good idea is to fatigue the players. Less interchange, and penalise wrestling and gang tackling to speed up the ruck. This would bring the small creative players back into the contest when the forward packs tire.

 

[miguel de cervantes]

I do like these imposed staggered defense lines ideas, as long as they can be policed.

2. Somehow make the 40/20 a more constant threat that the defence needs to cover with 2 or 3 defenders or else they will get hurt; and/or

Easy. Simply make it 20/40, 30/30, 40/20, 50/10 ie +60.

 

[siv]

Just interesting thinking about the two ideas of 3 markers. 2 must be behind within 2m but dont need to be square

Instantly you get rid of dummy half running with the man 2 passes out being the key runner

Slow the play the ball down by enforcing lifting of the ball off the ground - allows the good tackler to join as a 3rd marker

My original though was to bring back the defensive sweeper eg old halfback position. But when a winger drops back he could rejoin the line on the 5th tackle

These two actually reduce the defensive line to 11 men

How to police it ?

I am a advocate of 6 touch judges
- 4 that patrol the sidelines watching 50m zones but we could use them
- 2 in goal touch judges

This allows you to stagger touch judges
- ruck
- 10 m defensive marker
- 20 m defensive marker
- focuses on long range kicks or back play

You can expand the field by changing where scrums and taps are tacken

Eg 10m from sideline scrums

I dont think moving scrums and taps 20m in field has been a good thing

Go back to a 5m from the try line union rule - and you bring back the push over try. Which also opens the outer field in attack as the defenders must be ready to stop a scrum pushover

 

[Force]

Take out the one on one strip. It makes it confusing when a strip that bounces forward from an attacking player is a play on if the attacking player regathers the ball. Either that or make it a compulsary knock on if it goes forward off an attacking player.

 

[latingringo101]

I thought Lebanon, Australia, Tonga had the best halves combos (Widdop if you count his performances for England).

Generally Australia has been n.o 1 RL nation because they've had a ridiculous amount of half combos to choose from. The odd time you'll see another nation have descent halves but it's just lack of depth really which kills teams at international level.

 

[Springs]

A few good ideas here. I like the idea where the markers can line up anywhere as long as they are in front of the play-the-ball. Maybe three markers and the fullback must be in his own half at all times when in defense. That takes an extra two players out of the defensive line and doesn't tamper with the fabric of the game to a point where it is not recognisable.

The other good idea is to fatigue the players. Less interchange, and penalise wrestling and gang tackling to speed up the ruck. This would bring the small creative players back into the contest when the forward packs tire.

I haven't seen any good ideas. You are all talking shit.

The rules are fine as they are. Markers anywhere? The dummy half wouldn't be able to move! Every pass would get intercepted.

The problem is they don't enforce the rules. Don't let them hold down so long, make them play the ball with their foot, penalise them whenever they are offside, sin bin for deliberate penalties etc. And don't listen to the whingers when they say there are too may penalties. The only reason there are penalties is because players and coaches cheat the rules.

Interchange is fine at 8. There is less fatigue because of how slow the play-the-balls are and how many deliberate penalties teams give away. We could have 0 interchanges and it wouldn't matter much if they let players slow the ruck down longer. Enforce the rules and fatigue comes back into it.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

I haven't seen any good ideas. You are all talking shit.

The rules are fine as they are. Markers anywhere? The dummy half wouldn't be able to move! Every pass would get intercepted.

The problem is they don't enforce the rules. Don't let them hold down so long, make them play the ball with their foot, penalise them whenever they are offside, sin bin for deliberate penalties etc. And don't listen to the whingers when they say there are too may penalties. The only reason there are penalties is because players and coaches cheat the rules.

Interchange is fine at 8. There is less fatigue because of how slow the play-the-balls are and how many deliberate penalties teams give away. We could have 0 interchanges and it wouldn't matter much if they let players slow the ruck down longer. Enforce the rules and fatigue comes back into it.

Talking shit? Apologies, I though this was a forum where we are allowed to exchange ideas.

 

[T-Boon]

Markers anywhere? The dummy half wouldn't be able to move! Every pass would get intercepted.

You are just thinking about it as to how it would turn out if they played the game the way the play now. i.e. flat with lots of forward passes from the ruck - hitting the advantage line with no consequences. But the whole point is they would need to adjust the role of the dummy half (DH) and first receiver because no more easy metres that way.

The DHs primary skill would be to get good swift ball to the first receiver who would need to be considerably deeper into their own territory than the first receiver is in todays game (so we have instantly solved the forward pass from dummy half problem). As Siv said the key runner would be at least 1 pass off the ruck. The guy running either outside or inside the first reciever.

The markers job would not just be to contain the DH they would also need to get wider of the ruck and cut of metres on the edge. So if the DH is getting the ball out there and they are making gains then the marker would need to drift out away from the ruck along the advantage line. So some space would open up for a crafty DH.

If they brought in 3 markers plus not needing to be square I would also have the rest 15 metres back. That way if the 3 markers just focus on cutting off the DH or one out hit up then there are still easy metres a couple out.