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Worldwide Halves Problem

Springs09

Juniors
Messages
1,903
You are just thinking about it as to how it would turn out if they played the game the way the play now. i.e. flat with lots of forward passes from the ruck - hitting the advantage line with no consequences. But the whole point is they would need to adjust the role of the dummy half (Fake) and first receiver because no more easy metres that way.

The DHs primary skill would be to get good swift ball to the first receiver who would need to be considerably deeper into their own territory than the first receiver is in todays game (so we have instantly solved the forward pass from dummy half problem). As Siv said the key runner would be at least 1 pass off the ruck. The guy running either outside or inside the first reciever.

The markers job would not just be to contain the Fake they would also need to get wider of the ruck and cut of metres on the edge. So if the Fake is getting the ball out there and they are making gains then the marker would need to drift out away from the ruck along the advantage line. So some space would open up for a crafty Fake.

If they brought in 3 markers plus not needing to be square I would also have the rest 15 metres back. That way if the 3 markers just focus on cutting off the Fake or one out hit up then there are still easy metres a couple out.

Oh good, sounds like U10s.

How about they enforce the forward pass rule instead?

Does anyone who think up these dumb rule changes actually have any experience of rugby league? Any time rule changes are brought up everyone seems to want rules that make the game look better on TV. The worst recurring one is how people want the clock to stop whenever the ball is out of play. Games would go for 3 hours, with amateur games even longer.

The game is fine. The professional game needs to fix up their refereeing methods and it will be fine too.
 
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T-Boon

Coach
Messages
12,832
The game is fine. The professional game needs to fix up their refereeing methods and it will be fine too.

I see crowds and I think the game is ok but could probably be a lot better.
I see scrums and I know we are a code that has not thought enough about our rules.
 

siv

Bench
Messages
4,988
Yes you can’t increase the length of the field because it has to be 100m plus in goal. The width of the field however? It’s roughly 68m but would a 80m width be so bad? It would add another 1200m2 to the field and players running around more. Clearly could only happen to field that aren’t already rectangle.

Cant mess with the basic soccer RU RL pitch dimensions. Too many stadiums cant deal with a 120m x 66m pitch already
 

Vee

Bench
Messages
3,775
I haven't seen any good ideas. You are all talking shit.

The rules are fine as they are. Markers anywhere? The dummy half wouldn't be able to move! Every pass would get intercepted.

The problem is they don't enforce the rules. Don't let them hold down so long, make them play the ball with their foot, penalise them whenever they are offside, sin bin for deliberate penalties etc. And don't listen to the whingers when they say there are too may penalties. The only reason there are penalties is because players and coaches cheat the rules.

Interchange is fine at 8. There is less fatigue because of how slow the play-the-balls are and how many deliberate penalties teams give away. We could have 0 interchanges and it wouldn't matter much if they let players slow the ruck down longer. Enforce the rules and fatigue comes back into it.
You left one out, get the markers straight.

One of the biggest problems I see is making refs ref the game. Growing up, we were all taught the rule that a tackle is complete when the ball-carrier hits the ground and his forward momentum stops. We had to get off him and if we didn't, we were penalised. Now, all you see is the ref being required to say when the tackle is completed with no onus on the players to know or comply with the rule. so the ref calls held and then has to allow two (or three? not sure) seconds for the tackler to get off him. So the tackler invariably makes a second movement after the tackle is complete to tie the ball-carrier up and stop the quick ruck. The second movement is the giveaway.

Put the onus back on the players to know and comply with the rules, this nanny-state refereeing has gone too far too long.
 

deal.with.it

Juniors
Messages
2,086
The number of foreard passes cameron smith threw last weekend was in double digits. The number of times the australian defense got up off the line before the ball had been played, countless! The common theme? Unethical coaching.
 

Springs09

Juniors
Messages
1,903
I see crowds and I think the game is ok but could probably be a lot better.
I see scrums and I know we are a code that has not thought enough about our rules.

Crowds are a problem of the administration, not the on-field product.

Scrums are the way they are because we relaxed the rules too much. Players should pack in 8-13, the ball should be fed in front of the loose head's feet and they should be penalised for not packing in properly or breaking early.
 

T-Boon

Coach
Messages
12,832
Crowds are a problem of the administration, not the on-field product.

There is evidence that crowds have dropped since Stormball has taken over the game. There has been a steady decline in crowds since about 2006. At a time when really they should have been growing.

We need rule changes to get rid of Storm ball. Rule changes that will reward skill and creativity over muscle, completion, structure.
 

Springs09

Juniors
Messages
1,903
There is evidence that crowds have dropped since Stormball has taken over the game. There has been a steady decline in crowds since about 2006. At a time when really they should have been growing.

We need rule changes to get rid of Storm ball. Rule changes that will reward skill and creativity over muscle, completion, structure.

There is no evidence. Crowds rose steadily from 2006 to 2012 and then started dropping steadily until a big drop this year. The major reason is scheduling and ticket prices. The football plays a part but it's not the sole reason. This year was the biggest change since 2006-07 and it was because of Thursday night and Friday 6pm games.

We don't need rule changes. 'Stormball' only dominates the NRL. Everywhere else is fine because we don't give a shit how it looks on TV. Start enforcing the rules so clubs can't cheat, don't bring in stupid shit like 3 markers allowed to stand anywhere.
 

T-Boon

Coach
Messages
12,832
Start enforcing the rules so clubs can't cheat, don't bring in stupid shit like 3 markers allowed to stand anywhere.

People should try to think about the rules as if we were starting from scratch and they don't have the comfort of what they have been use to.

If you were starting from scratch why would 2 markers make sense but 3 markers make no sense. The mouse trap still gets used so you can have 3 or more in the ruck on attack.

And why would being square make sense. There isn't any corresponding rule on the attacking team. The dummy half does not have to be square. The play the ball often gets moved side ways along the advantage line.

We need to give the defence more freedom and flexibility to defend their territory and more decisions to make.
 

T-Boon

Coach
Messages
12,832
There is no evidence. Crowds rose steadily from 2006 to 2012 and then started dropping steadily until a big drop this year.

The decline really started in 2006. It rallied briefly around the time the NRL started pushing memberships. The decline is related to the style of play. Average points scored per game has gone down about 5 points in that same time.
 

Perth Red

Immortal
Messages
43,290
The decline really started in 2006. It rallied briefly around the time the NRL started pushing memberships. The decline is related to the style of play. Average points scored per game has gone down about 5 points in that same time.
not really we had a success blip in 2005 probably due tot he teams that did well, then a bit of a drop followed by a resonably consistent succesful 4 season period of 2009-2012 with 16k plus avg.

https://afltables.com/rl/crowds/summary.html

Then 2013 we started to drop and have continued to do so to our lowest ebb for many years in 2017.

So what happened 2013 onwards?
1.the game got independent ownership and new CEOs who have been extremely poor in putting fans first
Tv money has climbed significantly making clubs and nrl lazy in attracting customers
Monday nights were introduced, followed by Monday and Thursday in 2016 and then Thursday and 6pm Friday for 2017
Some of the best supported clubs have been avg last few years
Membership increases have not translated to bums on seats
the perception is game has gone soft with shoulder charge and fights removed

Multi factorial reasons but if they drop again this year the game is in deep sht.
 

T-Boon

Coach
Messages
12,832
not really we had a success blip in 2005 probably due tot he teams that did well, then a bit of a drop followed by a resonably consistent succesful 4 season period of 2009-2012 with 16k plus avg.

https://afltables.com/rl/crowds/summary.html

Then 2013 we started to drop and have continued to do so to our lowest ebb for many years in 2017.

So what happened 2013 onwards?
1.the game got independent ownership and new CEOs who have been extremely poor in putting fans first
Tv money has climbed significantly making clubs and nrl lazy in attracting customers
Monday nights were introduced, followed by Monday and Thursday in 2016 and then Thursday and 6pm Friday for 2017
Some of the best supported clubs have been avg last few years
Membership increases have not translated to bums on seats
the perception is game has gone soft with shoulder charge and fights removed

Multi factorial reasons but if they drop again this year the game is in deep sht.

Good post. Obviously the Monday and Thursday games are hurting crowd averages.
However, I think the 3 year drop from 2006 really suggests that that is when the problems started. If it was just one year I would cop it but 3 years below peak. I think the timing of the rally (2009, 2010 and 2011) really was due to the start of the membership frenzy.

Look up average points per game stats and you will see a decline that starts around 2006. That is when wrestling and structure etc took over.
 

Perth Red

Immortal
Messages
43,290
Not really, if you take out 2005 which was an anomaly year we had consistent years of crowds 14-15k 2000-2004
Then the blip of 2005
Then back to consistent 15.5k 2006-2008
Consistent 16k 2009-2012
Then the decline kicked in 2013
 

docbrown

Coach
Messages
10,390
Boring uncreative repetitive attacking play (Stormball)
+
Slow drudging wrestling & gang tackles by defences (Stormball)
+
By the numbers coaching (Stormball)
+
Antiquated Rules
+
Rule changes that have changed the perception of the game that it is no longer 'tough'
+
Poor marketing
+
Poor scheduling
+
Expensive prices in a time when people have restricted spending ability
+
Inconsistent refereeing
+
Endless poor press cycle
+
Poor stadium & transportation infrastructure
+
Poor investment outside NSW & QLD
+
Poor club expansion strategy
+
Poor investment overseas
+
Poor attempts to attract sponsors
=
Current state of rugby league

You can't fix 1 problem and not the others.
 

Springs09

Juniors
Messages
1,903
The decline really started in 2006. It rallied briefly around the time the NRL started pushing memberships. The decline is related to the style of play. Average points scored per game has gone down about 5 points in that same time.

Oh right so when the crowds were rising for 6 years that was actually decline. FFS
 

Springs09

Juniors
Messages
1,903
People should try to think about the rules as if we were starting from scratch and they don't have the comfort of what they have been use to.

If you were starting from scratch why would 2 markers make sense but 3 markers make no sense. The mouse trap still gets used so you can have 3 or more in the ruck on attack.

And why would being square make sense. There isn't any corresponding rule on the attacking team. The dummy half does not have to be square. The play the ball often gets moved side ways along the advantage line.

We need to give the defence more freedom and flexibility to defend their territory and more decisions to make.

Okay, ignoring that all that 'starting from scratch' shit is geniused, there is a corresponding rule for the attacking team, and that is the ball has to be played directly backwards.

Yeah why would three markers make sense? Lets have 13 markers. And they can be anywhere as long as they are behind the play-the-ball. Wait, isn't that another sport?
 
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