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Worldwide Halves Problem

siv

First Grade
Messages
5,032
After watching the RLWC one thing that stands out is the lack of creativity at 5/8 and halfback

I dont know if its a junior coaching isdue or the 10m rule

But this is a must improve area for everyone
 

Force

Juniors
Messages
341
The only teams at the RLWC with decent halves were Australia and Lebanon. Liam Finn was alright for Ireland but the rest were mediocre.
 
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Raiderdave

First Grade
Messages
7,990
we still have cronk just kicking across field about 8/10 times if in position for the winger , or FB etc
its still a little predictable & hes about the best

defences are so orgnaised & hard to breakdown
the poms were as good as australia in D last night , just rubbish in attack
 

Vee

Bench
Messages
3,929
Agree with the above. Phil Gould has been banging on for years about the need to start a halves academy.

It was the single biggest reason the island teams didn't progress, big strong forwards, big strong backs, just no smarts in the halves.
 

beave

Coach
Messages
14,741
From an NRL perspective-

Arguments have been made about the clubs/scouts looking for athlete traits first and then figuring out how to develop the football skills later on down the track. Probably valid IMO. Some of the shit you saw in the U20’s over the last 8/9 years was mind boggling how poor some of the skills these guys had. I prefer the 18-22 year olds plying their trade in the state based comps against hardened ex-first graders. Once NQ got 3 QRL teams to spread their talent around, IMO that was the start of our resurgance from the doldrums of ‘08-‘10 where we’ve made the finals 7 years straight and been in 2 GF’s. The kids we have brought through our system have all had a bit of time for either the Pride, Cutters and Blackhawks (Feldt, Morgan, Taumalolo, Ethan Lowe after his roosters 20’s stint, Hess). Obviously only one of those mentioned is a half but my point still stands. Get better pathways to mould these guys against hardened veterans and I reckon you’ll see the improvement in halves pretty soon thereafter. The U20’s comp getting the ass is the best thing IMO to happen to the NRL.
 

Stormwarrior82

Juniors
Messages
1,036
My personal opinion is that the problem has come about due to the Nrl clubs insistence of defense wins games. Cronk for instance doesn’t do anything amazing but what he does do is perfection. Short passes and cross kicks, percentage plays. He has been the half back clone that everyone has been trying to copy. Teams run there plays at the halfves to wear them out, put pressure on them and make tackles. On top of that the more trickier plays are more high risk and the game is now being played with a lot more structured, disciplined, wear-down, you’ll get you chance mindset.

The SJ, S Prince, Benji of the Nrl all have amazing individual brilliance born from a touch background which should be promoted. Have you seen how good some of the players are that play touch are? The balls they throw and lines they run are freakish. However their good games and bad games very quiet significantly, which is the issue.

Not sure of the answer but touch is a game that would help improve playmakers passing, stepping and decision making skills but at the same time the game needs to allow these players space and freedom to do there thing.
 

playdaball

Bench
Messages
3,525
Good thread ... 100% accurate.

Nz has a real issue finding halves and in recent years they’ve used the likes of Tohu Harris, Willie Talau and Nigel Vagana to fill the gap. The dominance of Big PI players does effect this as smaller guys are reluctant to get bashed around.
 

docbrown

Coach
Messages
10,390
Coaches know that the current rules of the game favour a robotic repetitive attacking style. It's about attrition. Variety is a risk.

It's true that there's a halves problem. But part of that problem is that coaches want them to play it safe & by the numbers.
 

Perth Red

Immortal
Messages
43,935
It’s safety first coaching and the wrestle. Very hard to get creative without second phase play, quick play the balls and where every play is set like an nfl game book.

Look at england under Bennett, sure we managed to grind like an nrl. Team but that was about the worse attacking display I’ve seen from an England team.
 

docbrown

Coach
Messages
10,390
It’s safety first coaching and the wrestle. Very hard to get creative without second phase play, quick play the balls and where every play is set like an nfl game book.

Look at england under Bennett, sure we managed to grind like an nrl. Team but that was about the worse attacking display I’ve seen from an England team.

Agreed. Coaches won't change it. Star halves players won't change it. Cracking down on referees won't change it.

A rule change is required, one that favours second phase play, passing and variety in attack over robotic plays. It also has to penalise wrestling and gang tackling.
 

miguel de cervantes

First Grade
Messages
7,420
Was totally waiting for this thread to appear, thought about starting it myself though in a different context., rather in how creativity in league has dissappeared in favour of risk management.

Take a look at this video


watch murdock and the wigan game logic in general and tell me the game hasn't gone backwards as a spectacle since then (yes I know Bath were ordinary in defense). You just don't see play much like this anymore.
 

Stormwarrior82

Juniors
Messages
1,036
The changes that need to happen should revolve around the defensive line and ruck. The players have the skills but due to not having the opportunity to use it they don’t. The ruck has been slowed down to allow the defensive team to get set and then go again. Hence why, win the ruck (slow the attack down) and defense wins games is always sprouted.

By decreasing the interchange again down to 6. Having the game time stop at all breakdowns, max 30sec stoppage (like in the last 5mins of a game) and change a few little things in the ruck would do wonders. Having fatigued players creates opportunities and skillful players take advantage of that.
 

T-Boon

Coach
Messages
12,832
By decreasing the interchange again down to 6. Having the game time stop at all breakdowns, max 30sec stoppage (like in the last 5mins of a game) and change a few little things in the ruck would do wonders. Having fatigued players creates opportunities and skillful players take advantage of that.

That would work but I prefer the idea of ruck speed having absolutely nothing to do with anything.

In my opinion the ruck should be neutralised in terms of any advantage or disadvantage either attack or defense get out of it. Because if ruck speed is the central mechanism for opening the game up (as it is now) then referees just have way too much pressure/influence. I would prefer going back to 5 metres and finding another way to create space for the skilful players to operate.
 

miguel de cervantes

First Grade
Messages
7,420
It would be interesting to move the defense to 5 or even 7 meters, just to see what that engenders. It is probably the simplest change and something that has already been tampered with.

I firmly believe something needs to change. The probability of one pass or dummy half running in your own 50 is pretty damn high now.
 

Springs09

Juniors
Messages
1,903
It's junior coaching.

Players are picked up too young and then over-coached to do what the dumbass coach thinks the NRL wants. One of the junior players at my club went to play SG Ball and was told off for putting someone into a gap instead of sticking to the rehearsed 5-tackles-and-kick set-up.

As a result halves don't play what's in front of them. Too many coaches want their halfback to be Cooper Cronk when Cronk was never a real star junior half, he was just a perfectionist under Bellamy and executed every play perfectly. But he was never really creative.
 

Perth Red

Immortal
Messages
43,935
Rule changes if we wanted to make the game more entertaining

Get rid of scrum
Allow quick taps
Get rid of penalty kicking to sideline, allow quick tap from point of penalty
Reduce interchange
Speed up ruck but no running from Dummy half
Police third man in tackle not being back 10metres
Bring In SL free play
Police offside. 50% of plays in wc final teams were offside, not one penalty blown.
 

beave

Coach
Messages
14,741
It would be interesting to move the defense to 5 or even 7 meters, just to see what that engenders. It is probably the simplest change and something that has already been tampered with.

I firmly believe something needs to change. The probability of one pass or dummy half running in your own 50 is pretty damn high now.

Moving the defence forward from 10m to 5-7m will make the game even easier for the defence to pick off the attack. I think that will have the opposite effect mate to what you want hey.

One simple rule change I have posted a few times about is restarts after penalty goals. At the moment defences will just give away penalties on their goal line because it gives them the chance to reset or give away 2pts with the restart seeing the ball kicked off from halfway and requiring the team offended to truck it out from their own goal line. An error by the team with the ball sees the team that gave away a penalty a few mins ago with great field position. It’s f**king ludicrous.

Coaches are happy for their teams to do this and it enfuriates me seeing the game turn into a farce on the goal lines.

My solution, make the restart from a successful penalty goal a goal line drop out, that way the team that got the penalty have the ball back in fairly decent field position and it might make the defending team think twice about giving away a penalty on their own goal line as that infringement could see them down ultimately 8pts.
 

siv

First Grade
Messages
5,032
My 3 key rule adjstments

- 5m in attack and defence
- scrums return to being set 10m from sideline
- scrums can be set up to 5m from try line
- ball must be put in straight into the scrum
- return of 5 min sin bin for repeat infringements eg 3 successive penalties

I would like to see a rule like 2 players must be more than 10m behind the defensive line

- prefer in goal touch judges to video ref
- but allow video ref to only rule on line decisions

- video ref to rule on foul play and can send player off immediately if grade 2 offence. Even if play continued
 

miguel de cervantes

First Grade
Messages
7,420
Moving the defence forward from 10m to 5-7m will make the game even easier for the defence to pick off the attack. I think that will have the opposite effect mate to what you want hey.

Not necessarily. The attack has to innovate or they won't go far in their set. No more easy metres.

I agree on bringing scrums back into the game. Removing them isn't the answer as it just decreases the dimensionality of the game even further. At present they are a joke.
 

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