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Worldwide Halves Problem

Discussion in 'World Cup 2021' started by siv, Dec 3, 2017.

  1. Springs09

    Springs09 Juniors

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    Or just sin bin for professional fouls like they are supposed to.
     
  2. T-Boon

    T-Boon Coach

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    I would consider retaining the 10 metres but getting rid of the requirement that marker be "square". "Square" does not make any sense to the current rules except that it is a hang over from the rugby live ruck days. Worse, it is the source of some aggravating and dubious penalties.
    The "markers" should be allowed to line up anywhere they like behind the advantage line. I would even consider allowing a 3rd "marker" to allow the defense a little bit of added flexibility if the want to sacrifice someone from the defensive line.
     
  3. siv

    siv Bench

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    3rd marker and both not needing to be square as you say would allow the tackler to join the defensive line easier

    Its also a return the old school play the ball

    But getting up and then placing the ball on the ground would help.

    Should be a scrum if a player uses the ball to get up
     
  4. Disinterested third party

    Disinterested third party Bench

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    Can't agree given some of the quality young halves around (such as Fages and Hingano) who emerged on the international stage during the RLWC.
     
  5. T-Boon

    T-Boon Coach

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    Is that considered to be a bad thing?
     
  6. Stormwarrior82

    Stormwarrior82 Juniors

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    I think decreasing the defensive line from 10m would be a disasterous move. That would make the tacklers closer to the playmakers, making there time with the ball even less. And it would become more like union.

    Fatigue, fatigue, fatigue is the answer. Maybe increase the size of the field?
     
  7. siv

    siv Bench

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    Not really but you may need to limit it to a 2m zone of the play the ball
     
  8. siv

    siv Bench

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    Cant increase the pitch size only reduce the players in the defense line
     
  9. Force

    Force Juniors

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    Agree...this is why its harder to attack in Union because the defence line is up closer, they only have to be 'behind most foot', basically, behind their last player in the ruck so theres not a lot of room for the attacking team.
     
  10. Disinterested third party

    Disinterested third party Bench

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    Yes we realised that in 1906.
     
  11. Stormwarrior82

    Stormwarrior82 Juniors

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    Yes you can’t increase the length of the field because it has to be 100m plus in goal. The width of the field however? It’s roughly 68m but would a 80m width be so bad? It would add another 1200m2 to the field and players running around more. Clearly could only happen to field that aren’t already rectangle.
     
  12. T-Boon

    T-Boon Coach

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    Exactly. Which you could do several ways:

    1. I think it was you who suggested a straight up rule where at least 2 players need to be a further 10 metres back from the line which I like the simplicity of (you could possible make the rule that you have to have 2 defenders in your own half at all times so the benefit for the attack is mainly there early in the set when we absolutely need to encourage more play making or variety); and/or

    2. Somehow make the 40/20 a more constant threat that the defence needs to cover with 2 or 3 defenders or else they will get hurt; and/or

    3. Reduce the players on the field to 11 a side which terrifies people but would have numerous big advantages for the code but does not really create an advantage that encourages passing and risk taking (except for the extra space); and/or;

    4. Allow the defence to have more "markers" who can cut off the middle but leaves the line a bit thin.
     
  13. titoelcolombiano

    titoelcolombiano Bench

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    A few good ideas here. I like the idea where the markers can line up anywhere as long as they are in front of the play-the-ball. Maybe three markers and the fullback must be in his own half at all times when in defense. That takes an extra two players out of the defensive line and doesn't tamper with the fabric of the game to a point where it is not recognisable.

    The other good idea is to fatigue the players. Less interchange, and penalise wrestling and gang tackling to speed up the ruck. This would bring the small creative players back into the contest when the forward packs tire.
     
  14. miguel de cervantes

    miguel de cervantes First Grade

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    I do like these imposed staggered defense lines ideas, as long as they can be policed.

    Easy. Simply make it 20/40, 30/30, 40/20, 50/10 ie +60.
     
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  15. siv

    siv Bench

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    Just interesting thinking about the two ideas of 3 markers. 2 must be behind within 2m but dont need to be square

    Instantly you get rid of dummy half running with the man 2 passes out being the key runner

    Slow the play the ball down by enforcing lifting of the ball off the ground - allows the good tackler to join as a 3rd marker

    My original though was to bring back the defensive sweeper eg old halfback position. But when a winger drops back he could rejoin the line on the 5th tackle

    These two actually reduce the defensive line to 11 men

    How to police it ?

    I am a advocate of 6 touch judges
    - 4 that patrol the sidelines watching 50m zones but we could use them
    - 2 in goal touch judges

    This allows you to stagger touch judges
    - ruck
    - 10 m defensive marker
    - 20 m defensive marker
    - focuses on long range kicks or back play

    You can expand the field by changing where scrums and taps are tacken

    Eg 10m from sideline scrums

    I dont think moving scrums and taps 20m in field has been a good thing

    Go back to a 5m from the try line union rule - and you bring back the push over try. Which also opens the outer field in attack as the defenders must be ready to stop a scrum pushover
     
  16. Force

    Force Juniors

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    Take out the one on one strip. It makes it confusing when a strip that bounces forward from an attacking player is a play on if the attacking player regathers the ball. Either that or make it a compulsary knock on if it goes forward off an attacking player.
     
  17. latingringo101

    latingringo101 Juniors

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    I thought Lebanon, Australia, Tonga had the best halves combos (Widdop if you count his performances for England).

    Generally Australia has been n.o 1 RL nation because they've had a ridiculous amount of half combos to choose from. The odd time you'll see another nation have descent halves but it's just lack of depth really which kills teams at international level.
     
  18. Springs

    Springs First Grade

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    I haven't seen any good ideas. You are all talking shit.

    The rules are fine as they are. Markers anywhere? The dummy half wouldn't be able to move! Every pass would get intercepted.

    The problem is they don't enforce the rules. Don't let them hold down so long, make them play the ball with their foot, penalise them whenever they are offside, sin bin for deliberate penalties etc. And don't listen to the whingers when they say there are too may penalties. The only reason there are penalties is because players and coaches cheat the rules.

    Interchange is fine at 8. There is less fatigue because of how slow the play-the-balls are and how many deliberate penalties teams give away. We could have 0 interchanges and it wouldn't matter much if they let players slow the ruck down longer. Enforce the rules and fatigue comes back into it.
     
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  19. titoelcolombiano

    titoelcolombiano Bench

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    Talking shit? Apologies, I though this was a forum where we are allowed to exchange ideas.
     
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  20. T-Boon

    T-Boon Coach

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    You are just thinking about it as to how it would turn out if they played the game the way the play now. i.e. flat with lots of forward passes from the ruck - hitting the advantage line with no consequences. But the whole point is they would need to adjust the role of the dummy half (Fake) and first receiver because no more easy metres that way.

    The DHs primary skill would be to get good swift ball to the first receiver who would need to be considerably deeper into their own territory than the first receiver is in todays game (so we have instantly solved the forward pass from dummy half problem). As Siv said the key runner would be at least 1 pass off the ruck. The guy running either outside or inside the first reciever.

    The markers job would not just be to contain the Fake they would also need to get wider of the ruck and cut of metres on the edge. So if the Fake is getting the ball out there and they are making gains then the marker would need to drift out away from the ruck along the advantage line. So some space would open up for a crafty Fake.

    If they brought in 3 markers plus not needing to be square I would also have the rest 15 metres back. That way if the 3 markers just focus on cutting off the Fake or one out hit up then there are still easy metres a couple out.
     

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