Widdop seeks release

[DragonJ]

And we were so close to having an actual discussion. Shame.

Indeed. I think your statement summed up our predicament perfectly.

"He's been guilty of running sideways in the past, but that was greatly improved this year."

After 4 years, our marquee player and captain started running sideways less!!! If we haven't been the laughing stock of the competition, we should have but thank god it's over now. I think it will take an entire season for Norman to run sideways as much as Widdop averaged doing it in a single game.

Wider with a little more room to move and a little more space, Widdop may excel at fullback to the same extent he sucked in the halves. If that is true, I think we will win the premiership or at least give it a good shake.

Norman and Hunt in the halves, an excellent attacking half with an excellent palymaking 5/8, Robson coming off the bench at the backend of each half, Widdop chiming in from the back, Lomax able to beat defenders with footwork or power and pass, Lafai able to take on multiple defenders and pass, and hopefully 2 fast wingers. I have a feeling the nightmare is over.

Even though we made the finals twice in the last 6 years, by the time the finals started I don't think anyone gave us a serious chance of winning the competition.

 

[SBD82]

Indeed. I think your statement summed up our predicament perfectly.

"He's been guilty of running sideways in the past, but that was greatly improved this year."

After 4 years, our marquee player and captain started running sideways less!!! If we haven't been the laughing stock of the competition, we should have but thank god it's over now. I think it will take an entire season for Norman to run sideways as much as Widdop averaged doing it in a single game.

Wider with a little more room to move and a little more space, Widdop may excel at fullback to the same extent he sucked in the halves. If that is true, I think we will win the premiership or at least give it a good shake.

Norman and Hunt in the halves, an excellent attacking half with an excellent palymaking 5/8, Robson coming off the bench at the backend of each half, Widdop chiming in from the back, Lomax able to beat defenders with footwork or power and pass, Lafai able to take on multiple defenders and pass, and hopefully 2 fast wingers. I have a feeling the nightmare is over.

Even though we made the finals twice in the last 6 years, by the time the finals started I don't think anyone gave us a serious chance of winning the competition.

I'd say that his sideways running was due to a lack of other ball playing options. When he received the ball at the right times he would straighten, but unfortunately we often had no other option, so the ball would be dumped off to widdop in the hope that he would create something out of nothing, forcing him to drift across field to try to find something.

With the addition of hunt as a legitimate secondary (or primary) option, this seemed to change.

 

[Dracarys]

Sarcasm is wasted on some.

Love it I didn't understand 'capiche' You need to got more savvy then.

 

[DragonJ]

I'd say that his sideways running was due to a lack of other ball playing options. When he received the ball at the right times he would straighten, but unfortunately we often had no other option, so the ball would be dumped off to widdop in the hope that he would create something out of nothing, forcing him to drift across field to try to find something.

With the addition of hunt as a legitimate secondary (or primary) option, this seemed to change.

Ok. So your basic position is that the entire team but Widdop is to blame for Widdop's habitual, infuriating (for many supporters) cross field running. You seem like a very decent person but on this, our positions couldn't be further apart.

 

[SBD82]

Ok. So your basic position is that the entire team but Widdop is to blame for Widdop's habitual, infuriating (for many supporters) cross field running. You seem like a very decent person but on this, our positions couldn't be further apart.

My basic opinion is not that at all. I feel that you're misrepresenting my point of view.

For the majority of Widdops tenure, we have had a running fullback, hookers who had pass/run games but weren't particularly creative, and adequate (sometimes being generous) halfbacks. We have also had backrowers who are not creative.

Given all of this, can you not see why widdop would have sometimes ended up with the ball when there was nothing on?

 

[DragonJ]

My basic opinion is not that at all. I feel that you're misrepresenting my point of view.

For the majority of Widdops tenure, we have had a running fullback, hookers who had pass/run games but weren't particularly creative, and adequate (sometimes being generous) halfbacks. We have also had backrowers who are not creative.

Given all of this, can you not see why widdop would have sometimes ended up with the ball when there was nothing on?

I see. So Widdop's habitual cross field running was as a result of him having no idea what else to do. That corresponds pretty well with my own opinion. He was hopelessly out of his depth in the halves. Not his fault. Any coach that wasn't a complete moron would have seen this after only a few rounds. he should have been moved to fullback after a few rounds but his salary should have reflected his inability to be the main playmaker he stated he came to be.

 

[Old Timer]

My basic opinion is not that at all. I feel that you're misrepresenting my point of view.

For the majority of Widdops tenure, we have had a running fullback, hookers who had pass/run games but weren't particularly creative, and adequate (sometimes being generous) halfbacks. We have also had backrowers who are not creative.

Given all of this, can you not see why widdop would have sometimes ended up with the ball when there was nothing on?

Obviously DragonJ is far wiser than all the commentators that have ever voiced a positive opinion on or ever voted any man of the match points for Widdop.
Hopefully he might now enlighten us how flawed all those commentators have been in every article ever posted about Widdop.
Having 1 so wise in our midst is a truly humbling experience for us all.
I would encourage him to contact all the papers, the English selectors, Ch 9 & Fox highlighting their obvious errors and taking all the commentators to task for their blatant stupidity.

 

[SBD82]

I see. So Widdop's habitual cross field running was as a result of him having no idea what else to do. That corresponds pretty well with my own opinion. He was hopelessly out of his depth in the halves. Not his fault. Any coach that wasn't a complete moron would have seen this after only a few rounds. he should have been moved to fullback after a few rounds but his salary should have reflected his inability to be the main playmaker he stated he came to be.

I think the conclusion that you're drawing is incorrect.

Widdop is a good playmaker, but when any player has to shoulder too much attack it makes things too predictable, which allows the defence to target them, and also means that they are given the ball in a pass and hope situation.

 

[Willow]

isn't it against the rules to quote someone but change the content of the quote?

It obviously wasn't done on purpose.

You're trying to get another poster into trouble with the mods. Poor form.

 

[DragonJ]

It obviously wasn't done on purpose.

You're trying to get another poster into trouble with the mods. Poor form.

Not done on purpose??? I can understand someone making the mistake but as soon as the message was posted, the guy surely could recognize the mistake and fix it but didn't. Wasn't a mistake.

I think the conclusion that you're drawing is incorrect.

Widdop is a good playmaker, but when any player has to shoulder too much attack it makes things too predictable, which allows the defence to target them, and also means that they are given the ball in a pass and hope situation.

So what you are saying now is that the team was a rabble and had no idea what to do but pass to Widdop and he habitually ran sideways because he had no other option. Fair point. I don't entirely disagree with that. I think the entire team including Widdop had no f**king idea what to do but that isn't so different from your basic premise. He also would have been better off taking the tackle and playing the ball rather than running sideways.

So whose job is it to organize the team so they are not a rabble and have a plan?

 

[DragonJ]

Obviously DragonJ is far wiser than all the commentators that have ever voiced a positive opinion on or ever voted any man of the match points for Widdop.
Hopefully he might now enlighten us how flawed all those commentators have been in every article ever posted about Widdop.
Having 1 so wise in our midst is a truly humbling experience for us all.
I would encourage him to contact all the papers, the English selectors, Ch 9 & Fox highlighting their obvious errors and taking all the commentators to task for their blatant stupidity.

The same guys who constantly rave about what a great prop Aaron Woods is, what a great fullback Dugan was and etc?

To be honest, I'm not sure about their moral credentials. You tell me. Can we trust them? Apart from Gaz of course. He is morally irreproachable and it was he who was usually very muted in his man-love, or lack thereof for Widdop. He didn't exactly go against the grain but he often said things like "the halves really need to take charge", "too much cross field running" and subtle backhands such as that.

Even in the early part of last season when we were really playing well (as opposed to eking out victories on the back of desperate defence), Gaz was raving about what a difference Ben Hunt has made to the team.

And while I have your attention, @TruSaint makes voodoo dolls for anyone who brings up Widdop's (major) role in the fiasco of the last several years. Is that morally acceptable?

 

[Dragonslayer]

How does one go about seeking release from this thread?

 

[SBD82]

So what you are saying now is that the team was a rabble and had no idea what to do but pass to Widdop and he habitually ran sideways because he had no other option. Fair point. I don't entirely disagree with that. I think the entire team including Widdop had no f**king idea what to do but that isn't so different from your basic premise. He also would have been better off taking the tackle and playing the ball rather than running sideways.

Reframing my words so that you can argue against a distorted representation of them is an old trick. Please stop it.

I did not say that the team was a rabble. I said that there was an over reliance on widdops playmaking because the other players, despite having other qualities, were not good playmakers.

As an example, I would say that Tyson is not a ball playing backrower in the mould of Wade Graham. That's doesn't mean that he is a rabble or has no idea what to do, as he has many other fine qualities. Playmaking just happens to not be one of them. But creativity has to come from somewhere, so his share of responsibility for that falls elsewhere. This is easily covered if you have creativity in other positions. But when the other creative positions are occupied by players like Dugan, Rein, McCrone, Thompson, Aitken etc, the balance of the team is going to have an impact on your key playmaker/s.

And sure there were times when Widdop should have taken the tackle and not run sideways. But when that is what everyone else is doing, and it is obviously just going to be a hit up, I can understand the mentality to try something else.

So whose job is it to organize the team so they are not a rabble and have a plan?

That sounds like a coaching issue to me. Your key playmaker's role would be to execute. But again, rabble is your word, not mine.

And the responsibility of ensuring that the side is well balanced with creativity? Recruitment to ensure the players are in the squad, assistant coaches to develop the blokes with aptitude, and the head coach to actually select them.

 

[TruSaint]

The same guys who constantly rave about what a great prop Aaron Woods is, what a great fullback Dugan was and etc?

And while I have your attention, @TruSaint makes voodoo dolls for anyone who brings up Widdop's (major) role in the fiasco of the last several years. Is that morally acceptable?

 

[TruSaint]

Vas, Ruby, were are u ? Miss u guys

 

[TruSaint]

If you want to create a thread to talk about whoever I am or anything else about me, feel free to start a new thread about me. If I see anything I feel strongly or relatively strongly about mentioned there, I will reply. But don't be like @muzby. One is already too many. Stay on topic please. Besides me, @TruSaint also doesn't like it when we get off topic in regard to anything to do with Widdop. He has a voodoo doll for anyone who even questions Widdop's (major) role in the fiasco of the last 6 years.

Please don't encourage them. The same applies for you. If you like, feel free to create a thread to talk about me. Otherwise, please stay on topic.

This is your post moron, your post...

My reply was to YOUR post. Check the dates...

Keep up to speed pls... I know its hard

 

[Carlton]

I dont think Widdop is a good game manager or playmaker, I think he is an opportunist and is more suited to fullback. I was concerned when we signed Ben Hunt that a Hunt/Widdop combo did not have strong game management skills and that they are runners. I am happy we have Hunt and I believe a Hunt/Norman pairing could be the best in the league.

Widdop at fullback would allow him to direct the team without the pressure of calling most plays and trying to playmake as well. He could then chime in when he saw chances present themselves. He does not look good when he is trying to create something when the defence is set and solid. This is when he does most of his sideways running, its not because of his teammates not being available its because he doesn't know how to utilise them in this situation or what is the play to use.

 

[Drag Queen]

How does one go about seeking release from this thread?

Woohoo

I dont think Widdop is a good game manager or playmaker, I think he is an opportunist and is more suited to fullback. I was concerned when we signed Ben Hunt that a Hunt/Widdop combo did not have strong game management skills and that they are runners. I am happy we have Hunt and I believe a Hunt/Norman pairing could be the best in the league.

Widdop at fullback would allow him to direct the team without the pressure of calling most plays and trying to playmake as well. He could then chime in when he saw chances present themselves. He does not look good when he is trying to create something when the defence is set and solid. This is when he does most of his sideways running, its not because of his teammates not being available its because he doesn't know how to utilise them in this situation or what is the play to use.

Wowsers Carlton. Widdop is actually a humble bloke and definitely not an opportunist. Your view on him and mine are miles apart. Respect your opinion but don't agree with you on this one.

 

[TruSaint]

Woohoo

Wowsers Carlton. Widdop is actually a humble bloke and definitely not an opportunist. Your view on him and mine are miles apart. Respect your opinion but don't agree with you on this one.

I think @Carlton meant "opportunist" in relation to game play... i.e not a personality / character matter.
Thats the way I read it.

 

[Drag Queen]

This is your post moron, your post...
My reply was to YOUR post.

Keep up to date pls... I know its hard

Meh. Don't waste your time mate Xx