Rumoured and Confirmed signings - Part 4

[herbert henry1908]

Nice, Who else?

Who’s off contract?

Cartwright, Katoa, Winterstein, Pua & Naden

Team options on Sele & Fui

Mutual option on Lui Toso

 

[betcats]

At least you have made me smile whilst I’m over here in Fuzhou in China.

All good! I react like an asshole sometimes. You are recruiting fans for the Panthers I hope? haha.

 

[Abacus]

Could’ve been the only ones with enough cap space. Mid season there’d be limited clubs.

Nah, the rumours were there long enough. How long do you think it takes a player's manager to make half-dozen phone calls? If any of those clubs thought Blake or DWZ were worth the effort they could have made roster space (or offered some sort of trade).

 

[Pomoz]

How about don’t sign them up to long, overpaid deals in the first place?

We wouldn’t see these mid season moves or players not seeing out their contract if we signed more realistic deals.

How do you do that? Everybody thought Blake was going to be a gun rep player, DWZ was going to be a gun fullback. They were paid in hope they would do that. If Gus hadn't of upgraded them, there were plenty of teams sniffing around who would have taken them. What would you have done herbert? What's realistic?It was worth the punt even though it is impossible to predict who will deliver on an upgraded contract. Even a seasoned coach like Gus gets it wrong in predicting who will make it. Unless you can come up with a method which will accurately predict who is worth an upgraded contract, then you are not offering a practical solution, just complaining. The Knights will have to offer Ponga a significantly upgraded deal to keep him. What if he doesn't kick on and becomes the next Ash Taylor? How can you predict that with any certainty?

You dismiss Gus's comments in his podcast about "trading out" as being a wrong strategy yet you offer no strategy yourself. How do we resolve the issue of overpaid players? BTW Gus never said it always had to be a junior that replaces them, sometimes you can bring in a player from another team and get better value from them. You answer is to sign them on reasonable contracts is impossible to do without hindsight. You pay your money, make your choice and take your chances, that is all any club can do and they will get it wrong sometimes. It's what happens next that sets the good clubs apart from the mediocre ones.

I applaud the fact that finally the Panthers won't accept mediocrity just because a player is a junior. Now, we move them on and look for better value elsewhere. It is a sign that our expectations are raised.If only we had done that to Civoniceva, Walsh and Burns all those years ago, maybe we would still have Graham.

 

[betcats]

Who’s off contract?

Cartwright, Katoa, Winterstein, Pua & Naden

Team options on Sele & Fui

Mutual option on Lui Toso

How do mutual options work? Both sides have to take it up?

I can see 4 or 5 of those going tbh.

 

[Whino]

Who’s off contract?

Cartwright, Katoa, Winterstein, Pua & Naden

Team options on Sele & Fui

Mutual option on Lui Toso

Given Naden has been promoted to the top 30 I wouldn't be surprised if he gets a contract soon. Like Kenny did.
Lui Toso hasn't worked out.

 

[Abacus]

And? That only proves those 2 clubs were interested. It says nothing one way or the other about the 14 clubs who didn't sign them.

Eels and Bulldogs offered the most cash... which is nothing new for either club.

If either player got a call from any of those clubs, do you think they'd be where they are now.

If they did get offers from better clubs, then it comes down to whether the players want to win or get paid. They chose the cash.

 

[OldPanther]

Who’s off contract?

Cartwright, Katoa, Winterstein, Pua & Naden

Team options on Sele & Fui

Mutual option on Lui Toso

I'm guessing most aren't on much $$$.

 

[tripster]

Leniu must be a big guy to being playing first grade as a prop at 18 years old.

I couldn’t find any details about him online regarding height and weight. Does anyone know?

 

[Buzzard Breath]

A Spencer bio from last year.


Bright future ahead for young Panther Spencer Leniu
Penelope Bradley, Mt Druitt-St Marys Standard
June 19, 2018 5:13pm
ROOTY HILL’S Spencer Leniu has been earmarked for greatness.

The 17-year-old represented NSW in the Under 18’s State of Origin tournament — rugby league’s highest representative junior level — held on June 6 at the Melbourne Cricket Ground.

The Standard’s latest Local Sports Star nominee first played the game at age four, and has already been contracted to the Penrith Panthers.

Winning the national rugby league championship this season, the club’s Australian school boys side also took out the SG Ball Cup’s grand final; going on to successfully defeat Queensland in the under 18s premiership.

First joining the Penrith Panthers as a player for the under 12s, Spencer said he hopes to represent the club professionally in coming years, after completing Year 12 this year at Blacktown’s Patrician Brothers College.
Thanks to his natural flair for the sport, the star front rower has played above his age grade for the past three years.

Mum Sau Leniu said people assume her son is a backrower based on his stature, but the young athlete’s talent for rugby can be attributed to his on-field speed, as well as his strength.

“He is quick for a front rower,” Mrs Leniu said.

“What makes him a great player is his passion and his drive.

“He’s very committed and he plays with an urgency and I suppose just his love of the game.”

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/n...u/news-story/9453ec17625366333bcd89eb4296413b

 

[herbert henry1908]

Nah, the rumours were there long enough. How long do you think it takes a player's manager to make half-dozen phone calls? If any of those clubs thought Blake or DWZ were worth the effort they could have made roster space (or offered some sort of trade).

I doubt the storm could’ve.

They had 3 roster spots to fill, 4 after Drinkwater left.

 

[herbert henry1908]

Given Naden has been promoted to the top 30 I wouldn't be surprised if he gets a contract soon. Like Kenny did.
Lui Toso hasn't worked out.

Naden will definitely be re-signed, but it looks like his upgraded contract was only for the rest of the year.

 

[herbert henry1908]

How do mutual options work? Both sides have to take it up?

I can see 4 or 5 of those going tbh.

Tbh I have no idea. First I’d ever heard of one was today.

But I’d say you’re on the money, both sides need to agree.

 

[Pomoz]

A Spencer bio from last year.


Bright future ahead for young Panther Spencer Leniu
Penelope Bradley, Mt Druitt-St Marys Standard
June 19, 2018 5:13pm
ROOTY HILL’S Spencer Leniu has been earmarked for greatness.

The 17-year-old represented NSW in the Under 18’s State of Origin tournament — rugby league’s highest representative junior level — held on June 6 at the Melbourne Cricket Ground.

The Standard’s latest Local Sports Star nominee first played the game at age four, and has already been contracted to the Penrith Panthers.

Winning the national rugby league championship this season, the club’s Australian school boys side also took out the SG Ball Cup’s grand final; going on to successfully defeat Queensland in the under 18s premiership.

First joining the Penrith Panthers as a player for the under 12s, Spencer said he hopes to represent the club professionally in coming years, after completing Year 12 this year at Blacktown’s Patrician Brothers College.
Thanks to his natural flair for the sport, the star front rower has played above his age grade for the past three years.

Mum Sau Leniu said people assume her son is a backrower based on his stature, but the young athlete’s talent for rugby can be attributed to his on-field speed, as well as his strength.

“He is quick for a front rower,” Mrs Leniu said.

“What makes him a great player is his passion and his drive.

“He’s very committed and he plays with an urgency and I suppose just his love of the game.”

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/n...u/news-story/9453ec17625366333bcd89eb4296413b

We need to be careful here, my Mum said the same about me and Len Stacker watched me at Emu Plains training one night and said "mate, no offence, you are shit, have you ever even played the game before?". He was right of course, I was shit and as a Londoner I hadn't even seen the game before let alone played it. Now I love this game.

 

[BxTom]

Peachey will be here in a few months unfortunately. Titans and Panthers will sort something out in the off-season.

We need a dislike button...

 

[herbert henry1908]

How do you do that? Everybody thought Blake was going to be a gun rep player, DWZ was going to be a gun fullback. They were paid in hope they would do that. If Gus hadn't of upgraded them, there were plenty of teams sniffing around who would have taken them. What would you have done herbert? What's realistic?It was worth the punt even though it is impossible to predict who will deliver on an upgraded contract. Even a seasoned coach like Gus gets it wrong in predicting who will make it. Unless you can come up with a method which will accurately predict who is worth an upgraded contract, then you are not offering a practical solution, just complaining. The Knights will have to offer Ponga a significantly upgraded deal to keep him. What if he doesn't kick on and becomes the next Ash Taylor? How can you predict that with any certainty?

Blake was only re-signed to a five year deal 9 months ago. I know he didn’t start the season very well, but that’s a very short time to go from long term deal to out the door.

To start with, I wouldn’t have given him a 5 year deal. He’d simply never earned that type of loyalty.

The only players that should be getting 5 year deals are super special, your top 2 or 3 players perhaps.

You dismiss Gus's comments in his podcast about "trading out" as being a wrong strategy yet you offer no strategy yourself. How do we resolve the issue of overpaid players? BTW Gus never said it always had to be a junior that replaces them, sometimes you can bring in a player from another team and get better value from them. You answer is to sign them on reasonable contracts is impossible to do without hindsight. You pay your money, make your choice and take your chances, that is all any club can do and they will get it wrong sometimes. It's what happens next that sets the good clubs apart from the mediocre ones.

I actually have offered a strategy.

Sign people to shorter contracts, this allows more flexibility without having to force them out.

Gus even gave Moses Leota a 4 year deal. Players of his skill are a dime a dozen in the NRL.

It’s really not impossible to do without hindsight, there’s simply no need for this many long term deals. Also had it confirmed to me that the club was not happy with all these long deals.

 

[betcats]

Leniu must be a big guy to being playing first grade as a prop at 18 years old.

I couldn’t find any details about him online regarding height and weight. Does anyone know?

He’s not huge but he’s big enough. Built low to ground and explosive. He’s been beasting in nsw cup for a while now.

 

[Panfa]

Leniu is a better go forward than tamou and campbell gillard hed be about 186cm and 110kg im guessing big legs very powerful ball runner and strong defender.Hes built like taumololo ive seen him play a few canterbury cup games this yr and he has been very impressive got speed too for a big guy he deserves his top 30 spot no doubt.

 

[Pomoz]

Blake was only re-signed to a five year deal 9 months ago. I know he didn’t start the season very well, but that’s a very short time to go from long term deal to out the door.

To start with, I wouldn’t have given him a 5 year deal. He’d simply never earned that type of loyalty.

The only players that should be getting 5 year deals are super special, your top 2 or 3 players perhaps.



I actually have offered a strategy.

Sign people to shorter contracts, this allows more flexibility without having to force them out.

Gus even gave Moses Leota a 4 year deal. Players of his skill are a dime a dozen in the NRL.

It’s really not impossible to do without hindsight, there’s simply no need for this many long term deals. Also had it confirmed to me that the club was not happy with all these long deals.

The deal would have been in negotiation for several months, so much longer than the 9 months ago date of execution. Over that time, the club has obviously seen something in Blake they now don't feel is worth the money.

Your strategy of short term deals would work except players are on an open market and it's the market that will dictate who you can sign on short term deals. At the time DWZ and Blake were deemed to be potentially gun players that would easily get five year deals somewhere else, especially given their age. The club isn't in a position to say "we don't do five year deals". For all the reasons previously discussed about why it is harder for Panthers to sign players than clubs like the Roosters, we can't dictate the terms all the time, especially with better players. Michael Gordon left the club because he could get a longer deal at the Sharks.

I wish it was, but it really is just not as simple as you think it is. There is a reason there is a club in salary cap crisis every year.

 

[herbert henry1908]

The deal would have been in negotiation for several months, so much longer than the 9 months ago date of execution. Over that time, the club has obviously seen something in Blake they now don't feel is worth the money.

Your strategy of short term deals would work except players are on an open market and it's the market that will dictate who you can sign on short term deals. At the time DWZ and Blake were deemed to be potentially gun players that would easily get five year deals somewhere else, especially given their age. The club isn't in a position to say "we don't do five year deals". For all the reasons previously discussed about why it is harder for Panthers to sign players than clubs like the Roosters, we can't dictate the terms all the time, especially with better players. Michael Gordon left the club because he could get a longer deal at the Sharks.

I wish it was, but it really is just not as simple as you think it is. There is a reason there is a club in salary cap crisis every year.

It’s still a very short time period to go from being considered in the long term plans to being out the door.

I understand the market is an issue, and if Blake would’ve walked because he didn’t get a 5 year deal then so be it. I think that’s preferable than giving out a long deal to someone who hasn’t earned it, particularly in a non spine position. Oh and then likely having to pay some of their salary to play somewhere else.


Also DWZ never had a five year deal, I wasn’t including him. His last deal was 3 years, so that goes to show you can sign highly touted guys to shorter deals.


We’ve actually given long deals to some very mediocre players. Moses Leota & Dean Whare. Neither of those two were in high demand elsewhere, and if they’d walked no one would’ve said boo.