18th club, whose next?

[Colk]

Here come the Bears

You have to capitalise ‘The’ remember

 

[Colk]

No facts or stats to back my thoughts here, but my opinion is that NZ2 adds nothing at all, rather divides Kiwi support. Why on god’s green earth would another team grow the game? I don’t see the Warriors anyway dividing, turning off any fan. Better to help the Warriors be consistently high performing, I think that would do light years more than a second team..

Where would you go for the 18th? Qld? Perth?

 

[Last Week]

No facts or stats to back my thoughts here, but my opinion is that NZ2 adds nothing at all, rather divides Kiwi support. Why on god’s green earth would another team grow the game? I don’t see the Warriors anyway dividing, turning off any fan. Better to help the Warriors be consistently high performing, I think that would do light years more than a second team..

I kind of agree.

I don't see or hear of any rugby league fans in New Zealand who hate the Warriors.

In Brisbane there were league fans who hated the Broncos. Now they have the Dolphins.

I don't see that sort of appetite in NZ

 

[Santino Patane]

Where would you go for the 18th? Qld? Perth?

Perth 100%. Queensland needs to embed our 4 teams first before any more, but I might be biased in this regard. Perth is the most mature of all growth areas for the NRL. If it worked (to a degree despite all the impediments put on the by the ARL at the time) in the 90’s, then I’m sure it can today.

 

[Colk]

I agree Santino. South Brisbane as an option maybe 10 years or so down the track, as hopefully both the Titans and Dolphins have had some success by then and grown a strong fan base by that time.

One team relocating out of Sydney to somewhere like Adelaide/NZ 2 would be ideal (looking at Cronulla) but would be incredibly doubtful

Then the big decision by that stage would be the 20th club - a chance to be daring and go with something like Melbourne 2, Adelaide or be safe and go with something like NZ 2

 

[reanimate]

Haha look i respect any professional athlete and no doubt they work hard to condition their bodies. I am amazed at how inaccurate a lot of AFL players kick though whenever I have watched... Is the Sherrin just hard to kick?

Watch this old Footy Show clip from about 1:30 onwards. The AFL player has shit accuracy from right in front, as seems to be normal in that sport, then watch what Joey’s able to do when he’s given a chance to kick. He bangs them through the middle with both feet with zero trouble. Straight after, he even sends one of his curling kicks through the middle from the boundary.

 

[Spanner in the works]

Not the Bears. We don't need another Sydney team (honestly the number of people who work in Sydney but live on the central coast these days just makes it an offshoot of Sydney).

I'd prefer NZ2 next to get to 18, and then Perth and Adelaide for 20.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

No facts or stats to back my thoughts here, but my opinion is that NZ2 adds nothing at all, rather divides Kiwi support. Why on god’s green earth would another team grow the game? I don’t see the Warriors anyway dividing, turning off any fan. Better to help the Warriors be consistently high performing, I think that would do light years more than a second team..

You are right about a sustained period of Warriors success, it would make them massive on both sides of the Tasman. They are pretty much the sleeping giant of NZ sport.

With regards to NZ 2, I can see plenty of benefits:

- extra Sky NZ money
- more professional opportunities for young NZ talent to stay at home
- RL becoming even more of a viable option for good athletes to combat RU
- spreading the game's footprint in NZ to open up opportunities for more fans and participation
- further strengthen the NZ Kiwis team so they are consistently successful against the Kangaroos

Having said all that. I believe Perth makes the most sense as # 18 with NZ2, Brisbane 3 and Adelaide fighting it out for spots 19 & 20.

 

[xe_kilroy]

TL;DR...18th surely will be NZ2 or Perth imo. Based on what I elaborate on below.

Initially, I was thinking Dolphins would slowly morph into representing Sunshine Coast, and a Brisbane #2 would eventually arrive in the future to represent the west.

But thinking about it more, I realize that the Dolphins are actually the Brisbane #2. They will help foster growth of the NRL product by promoting and working with the Capras, but it's all a way that eventually in the further future, the Sunshine Coast will have its own team imo.

I'll say it better....

QLD broken down into regions, Brisbane and Moreton Bay are basically conjoined, the same region strictly. So you now have a true Brisbane rivalry where the Broncos already represents Ipswich/Logan, the West/South, and Dolphins represent the East/North.

Looking at QLD in regions and where expansion "should" go next......Sunshine Coast and Cairns having teams is what will happen imo. Cairns vs Townsville rivalry, to match the SEQ rivalry now set up. Cairns is as big as Townsville and far away enough from Townsville to have its own team.

QLD NRL licenses = Cairns, Townsville, Sunshine Coast, Brisbane, Moreton Bay, Gold Coast. (6)
All the main regions represented.

NSW NRL licenses ought to aim for = Campbelltown, Wollongong, Newcastle, Penrith, Parramatta, Sydney, Sydney #2, Manly/Gosford. (8)

NZ = Auckland, and either Christchurch or Wellington. (2)

Rest of Australia = Canberra, Melbourne, Perth, Adelaide. (4)

There's your 20 teams.

We already have the Dragons semi-representing Wollongong, the Tigers semi-representing Campbelltown. So one step will be to get the Sea Eagles to semi-represent Gosford (play 50% games there), especially given the problems with Brookvale Oval, eventually the SE's could base themselves in Gosford anyway whilst still owning the Northern Peninsula (Warringah) and that good stock of RL juniors.

The other step will be to eventually cajole the Dragons to Wollongong permanently and the Tigers to Campbelltown permanently. The level of juniors in St George district, Sutherland district, Ashfield and Balmain districts is next to dead. More potential for those clubs to focus on juniors in Wollong. and Campb.

The real trick will be what to do with the Bulldogs (Bankstown is still good for junior RL), and what to do with the Sharks. If you could somehow relocate those two clubs to Perth and Adelaide, whilst keeping each team represented in the NSW cup as Cronulla and Canterbury, you'd solve that 20 team picture I painted above.

So if that was a grand plan....who makes the most sense to be 18th license? Cairns and SC are say about 10-30 years away. You don't even have to relocate teams to Woll., Campb., and Gosford for the foreseeable future, as the Dragons, Tigers and Sea Eagles can all semi-represent those regions, playing 50:50 games there to keep the interest alive, to grow affiliation of those specific clubs to those specific regions so one distant day they could seamlessly relocate there. If, say, the Sharks go to either Perth or NZ, or not at all, granting a brand new 18th license will clearly be Perth or Wellington/Christchurch.

It won't be Brisbane #2....because that really is the Dolphins.

 

[bad boy bubby]

TL;DR...18th surely will be NZ2 or Perth imo. Based on what I elaborate on below.

Initially, I was thinking Dolphins would slowly morph into representing Sunshine Coast, and a Brisbane #2 would eventually arrive in the future to represent the west.

But thinking about it more, I realize that the Dolphins are actually the Brisbane #2. They will help foster growth of the NRL product by promoting and working with the Capras, but it's all a way that eventually in the further future, the Sunshine Coast will have its own team imo.

I'll say it better....

QLD broken down into regions, Brisbane and Moreton Bay are basically conjoined, the same region strictly. So you now have a true Brisbane rivalry where the Broncos already represents Ipswich/Logan, the West/South, and Dolphins represent the East/North.

Looking at QLD in regions and where expansion "should" go next......Sunshine Coast and Cairns having teams is what will happen imo. Cairns vs Townsville rivalry, to match the SEQ rivalry now set up. Cairns is as big as Townsville and far away enough from Townsville to have its own team.

QLD NRL licenses = Cairns, Townsville, Sunshine Coast, Brisbane, Moreton Bay, Gold Coast. (6)
All the main regions represented.



We already have the Dragons semi-representing Wollongong, the Tigers semi-representing Campbelltown.

The other step will be to eventually cajole the Dragons to Wollongong permanently and the Tigers to Campbelltown permanently. The level of juniors in St George district, Sutherland district, Ashfield and Balmain districts is next to dead. More potential for those clubs to focus on juniors in Wollong. and Campb.

The real trick will be what to do with the Bulldogs (Bankstown is still good for junior RL), and what to do with the Sharks. If you could somehow relocate those two clubs to Perth and Adelaide, whilst keeping each team represented in the NSW cup as Cronulla and Canterbury, you'd solve that 20 team picture

There is some outright misinformation in this post.
Cronulla have the 3rd most mens/boys players in their district after Penrith and Parramatta.
You say that area is next to dead, well guess what it is a helluva lot more alive than most of the Sydney teams.
A little bit of research goes a long way.

Is rugby league dying? The never-before-released numbers that have NRL powerbrokers concerned

The NRL agreed to open its books without the spin. Here are the numbers for every district and region in NSW, showing 12,000 less males playing tackle rugby league than there were six years ago.

www.google.com

 

[MugaB]

TL;DR...18th surely will be NZ2 or Perth imo. Based on what I elaborate on below.

Initially, I was thinking Dolphins would slowly morph into representing Sunshine Coast, and a Brisbane #2 would eventually arrive in the future to represent the west.

But thinking about it more, I realize that the Dolphins are actually the Brisbane #2. They will help foster growth of the NRL product by promoting and working with the Capras, but it's all a way that eventually in the further future, the Sunshine Coast will have its own team imo.

I'll say it better....

QLD broken down into regions, Brisbane and Moreton Bay are basically conjoined, the same region strictly. So you now have a true Brisbane rivalry where the Broncos already represents Ipswich/Logan, the West/South, and Dolphins represent the East/North.

Looking at QLD in regions and where expansion "should" go next......Sunshine Coast and Cairns having teams is what will happen imo. Cairns vs Townsville rivalry, to match the SEQ rivalry now set up. Cairns is as big as Townsville and far away enough from Townsville to have its own team.

QLD NRL licenses = Cairns, Townsville, Sunshine Coast, Brisbane, Moreton Bay, Gold Coast. (6)
All the main regions represented.

NSW NRL licenses ought to aim for = Campbelltown, Wollongong, Newcastle, Penrith, Parramatta, Sydney, Sydney #2, Manly/Gosford. (8)

NZ = Auckland, and either Christchurch or Wellington. (2)

Rest of Australia = Canberra, Melbourne, Perth, Adelaide. (4)

There's your 20 teams.

We already have the Dragons semi-representing Wollongong, the Tigers semi-representing Campbelltown. So one step will be to get the Sea Eagles to semi-represent Gosford (play 50% games there), especially given the problems with Brookvale Oval, eventually the SE's could base themselves in Gosford anyway whilst still owning the Northern Peninsula (Warringah) and that good stock of RL juniors.

The other step will be to eventually cajole the Dragons to Wollongong permanently and the Tigers to Campbelltown permanently. The level of juniors in St George district, Sutherland district, Ashfield and Balmain districts is next to dead. More potential for those clubs to focus on juniors in Wollong. and Campb.

The real trick will be what to do with the Bulldogs (Bankstown is still good for junior RL), and what to do with the Sharks. If you could somehow relocate those two clubs to Perth and Adelaide, whilst keeping each team represented in the NSW cup as Cronulla and Canterbury, you'd solve that 20 team picture I painted above.

So if that was a grand plan....who makes the most sense to be 18th license? Cairns and SC are say about 10-30 years away. You don't even have to relocate teams to Woll., Campb., and Gosford for the foreseeable future, as the Dragons, Tigers and Sea Eagles can all semi-represent those regions, playing 50:50 games there to keep the interest alive, to grow affiliation of those specific clubs to those specific regions so one distant day they could seamlessly relocate there. If, say, the Sharks go to either Perth or NZ, or not at all, granting a brand new 18th license will clearly be Perth or Wellington/Christchurch.

It won't be Brisbane #2....because that really is the Dolphins.

Although i agree on the Cairns bid and rivalry with the cowboys, i don't agree with you about Cronulla moving on, nor bulldogs either, the Canterbury Bankstown club is about to start playing games in the newly built Liverpool stadium, and has a tremendous junior league, same as Sutherland, the Dragons in Wollongong is fine as they are there now half/half anyways.
The tigers won't leave concord, and do bugger all in campbelltown, that might change with sheens soon to flip the juniors into 1st graders in the next few years, but still won't change the fact that tigers aren't looking to move anywhere.. Liverpool stadium has been told it would be home to both but no one has confirmed it from the tigers POV... its just assumed.
Having the bulldogs in Liverpool is enough for southwest sydney.. tigers are the one better suited to relocate, hell backdoor benny tried to ship them to perth a few years ago

 

[xe_kilroy]

Although i agree on the Cairns bid and rivalry with the cowboys, i don't agree with you about Cronulla moving on, nor bulldogs either, the Canterbury Bankstown club is about to start playing games in the newly built Liverpool stadium, and has a tremendous junior league, same as Sutherland, the Dragons in Wollongong is fine as they are there now half/half anyways.
The tigers won't leave concord, and do bugger all in campbelltown, that might change with sheens soon to flip the juniors into 1st graders in the next few years, but still won't change the fact that tigers aren't looking to move anywhere.. Liverpool stadium has been told it would be home to both but no one has confirmed it from the tigers POV... its just assumed.
Having the bulldogs in Liverpool is enough for southwest sydney.. tigers are the one better suited to relocate, hell backdoor benny tried to ship them to perth a few years ago

I was unaware of the Liverpool situation. In that case, it becomes the Tigers on the hot-seat to be moved, and the Bulldogs safe taking over the South-West.

 

[Perth Red]

Ranking the bids as it stands today, and obviously a lot can change over the next 3 years before an 18th team is seriously looked at:

1. Perth. Ok I’m biased obviously but perth is ticking all the boxes except one. Stadium, decent 21k capacity ground that is well located and generates a great atmosphere, big money backers lined up willing to cover financial security, fanbase has been proven with sell out games at hbf park and origin, new time zone for tv gives some interesting options, the only realistic option to grow the game into a new Australian market and take the fight to afl in their backyard, experience running a club in a national Comp with a few years of SG ball under their belts, supportive govt that will back RL.
Negatives: jnrs not strong yet so will rely on east coast and international talent in the first few years.

2. Brisbane3. Whilst it’s not expansion, just more consolidation, it provides the safest of options for nrl with jets or firehawks ready to go, financially stable, valuable to tv for brisbane audience, jnrs readily available
Negatives: does the comp really need another brisbane club? risk of over saturating the brisbane market too soon leading to problems for the existing three se qlnd clubs, not new growth for the game.

3. NZ2. Hard to judge as there is little information about a bid. Will it be Wellington or Christchurch based? Will it be out of left field and be another Auckland club to create Vlandys much loved “tribalism”? Will it try to cover more than one region? Christchurch has the stadium but it’s a small union mad city where crowds for their number one sport are low. Wellington no decent stadium and by all accounts not very sports mad. Jnrs won’t be a problem as plenty of kiwi and islander talent available. May bring in extra money form sky nz.
negatives: not enough know yet, warriors hardly set the world alight on or off the field and arguably this will be a smaller club than them. Does nrl really want another nz team?

4. ”The Bears”. Whilst the idea of being everything g to everybody sounds great in theory in practice it will be much much harder. There is still nostalgia around the Bears and some seem to think they were hard done to so some sort of “feel good” factor may play out if they came back. Existing fanbase, though hard to determine what is actually left of it. Set up with jnrs and nsw cup team already.
Negatives: another nsw team? Really? Venues they are talking about playing at are very avg with ltd capacity. Would their nomadic existence eventually kill them, again?

5. Adelaide. Well there isn’t actually a bid for starters. But if one came out of the woodwork then it offers a new market for nrl in a decent sized city. crowds have been good for nrl in recent years showing there is still interest there despite the neglect.
negatives: stadium is avg, zero jnr development meaning it would be decades before they started producing first gradersand there is no bid yet!

6. PNG/Cairns. Very ambitious and would take some serious cohooners from the nrl to chose this one. We know png is mad for RL and a NRL club would pack whatever sized stadium they had, fanbase would not be a problem! Bringing in another country would give the nrl a real vibe and provide a real differentiation from afl.

Negatives: Unstable extremely poor country, basing a club in a different country to the one it represents may be perceived badly, cairns is cowboys territory, money where would it come from?, cost of running club across two countries, wouldnt imagine tv would support it given costs and no benefits to them.

so there you have it for what it’s worth, my bid rankings based on current info.

 

[mongoose]

PNG/Cairns - This would just cannibalise the cowboys. Cairns and Townsville aren't big enough to support teams on their own. Cairns is also a tourist town as well, it's transient like the Gold Coast.

a PNG/Darwin side would work better.

 

[Vee]

PNG/Cairns - This would just cannibalise the cowboys. Cairns and Townsville aren't big enough to support teams on their own. Cairns is also a tourist town as well, it's transient like the Gold Coast.

Agree.

 

[Perth Red]

There a reason Darwin doesn’t have ANY professional sports clubs in a top tier comp.

 

[jim_57]

PNG/Cairns - This would just cannibalise the cowboys. Cairns and Townsville aren't big enough to support teams on their own. Cairns is also a tourist town as well, it's transient like the Gold Coast.

a PNG/Darwin side would work better.

I don’t think a split side Cairns/PNG really fits, it’s a weird combination and I don’t see Cairns folk ditching Cowboys in droves to follow a team that mainly aims to represent another country. It just seems like a trying to please everyone idea like the Bears latest efforts.

A PNG team based in Cairns but fly in fly out game day to PNG wouldn’t be the worst idea if everything else was in place. At least being based in Australia they could actually attract and keep players, no chance if they’re based in Port Moresby.

 

[bad boy bubby]

Perth 1st choice
Another Brisbane 2nd

 

[MugaB]

I don’t think a split side Cairns/PNG really fits, it’s a weird combination and I don’t see Cairns folk ditching Cowboys in droves to follow a team that mainly aims to represent another country. It just seems like a trying to please everyone idea like the Bears latest efforts.

A PNG team based in Cairns but fly in fly out game day to PNG wouldn’t be the worst idea if everything else was in place. At least being based in Australia they could actually attract and keep players, no chance if they’re based in Port Moresby.

This is what the bid is for PNG/Cairns, you nailed it

 

[Vee]

This is what the bid is for PNG/Cairns, you nailed it

Link?