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18th club, whose next?

RedVee

First Grade
Messages
7,029
PVL should be working with Ch9 to get 3 Queensland Cup games broadcast into Queensland on Saturday. It can be broadcast on 9GEM. It will provide Ch9 with a "Super Saturday" of their own and give RL fans who don't have Foxtel/Kayo their RL fix so they don't have to watch the fumbleball or onionball.

It will also get the regional affiliate networks interested as they will have content that appeals directly to their viewers and an incentive to throw in a bit of money to screen it. I think this is the best way of elevating the profile of the Queensland Cup so it can generate more money that can be paid to the players, bridging the gap between the NRL and second-tier so that there's more talent available at any given time.

The NSW Cup can move away from being a Sydney-centric competition to one that has teams from all over the state. Broadcast 3 games into NSW on 9GEM.
From a cost perspective a weekly double header maybe more palatable. The TV unit can be set at one ground over multiple units being used.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
69,520
Problem is NRL (ergo Fox) would see that as taking away from their premium product. Fox dont want RL fans watching FTA same time as they are trying to sell them a product.
 

Billythekid

First Grade
Messages
6,826
For me the answer has to be either Perth or NZ2. The NRL needs to be looking at becoming a national game if for no other reason than the benefits for advertising. If you're a national brand you want to advertise to a national market. It doesn't matter that the AFL teams in NSW and QLD are unpopular as f**k, they still give the AFL a presence there and big advertisers want that. If you're a westpac, mcdonalds etc of course you're going to go with the AFL for that reason. So long as we have no presence outside of the eastern side of Australia we will remain at a big disadvantage to the AFL.

The frustrating part is that the NRL has the potential to be a true national game, not just in the capital cities. If we can eventually spread our game to Perth and heaven forbid even Adelaide we will be the true national game and that has a lot of power for advertisers.

NZ2 does have its merit though. I think it would be a great way to bolster the amount of juniors we get coming from NZ and would finally give the warriors a proper rival. I think it could be a big move in terms of the growth of the game in NZ.

I will say that whilst PNG is not a realistic option and may never be we absolutely need to look improving the pathway for PNG players to enter the NRL and doing as much as we can for the game there (including giving them more opportunities for international games). RL is the undisputed top sport in PNG a country with 9 million people and growing rapidly. Considering how much we bang on about the lack of talent in the game it's crazy how much we're wasting this oppurtunity.
 

jim_57

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
4,602
I will say that whilst PNG is not a realistic option and may never be we absolutely need to look improving the pathway for PNG players to enter the NRL and doing as much as we can for the game there (including giving them more opportunities for international games). RL is the undisputed top sport in PNG a country with 9 million people and growing rapidly. Considering how much we bang on about the lack of talent in the game it's crazy how much we're wasting this oppurtunity.

I’ve been preaching this for years.

Justin Olam went from a Digicel Cup players to probably the best centre in the NRL in roughly 5 years. Then since him nobody has really made the effort again, NRL clubs have tunnel vision for NSW, QLD, NZ and occasionally look at England or Fiji.

Olam was spotted at about 22-23, Imagine what could be done if there was a system in place to get the best players seen and in to NRL club development at 15-20.
 

MugaB

Coach
Messages
15,006
I’ve been preaching this for years.

Justin Olam went from a Digicel Cup players to probably the best centre in the NRL in roughly 5 years. Then since him nobody has really made the effort again, NRL clubs have tunnel vision for NSW, QLD, NZ and occasionally look at England or Fiji.

Olam was spotted at about 22-23, Imagine what could be done if there was a system in place to get the best players seen and in to NRL club development at 15-20.
This is why we should be pushing for a PNG driven team, i prefer it to be based in cairns, but as long as we can access the 8 million RL folk, ill be happy, just seems that the NRL clubs are just looking for players that have 1st grade experience, instead of focusing on Qcup experience aswell, its seems to be the same ol set of players getting traded around from clubs to clubs... more Olams and Boas
 

Colk

First Grade
Messages
6,750
For me the answer has to be either Perth or NZ2. The NRL needs to be looking at becoming a national game if for no other reason than the benefits for advertising. If you're a national brand you want to advertise to a national market. It doesn't matter that the AFL teams in NSW and QLD are unpopular as f**k, they still give the AFL a presence there and big advertisers want that. If you're a westpac, mcdonalds etc of course you're going to go with the AFL for that reason. So long as we have no presence outside of the eastern side of Australia we will remain at a big disadvantage to the AFL.

The frustrating part is that the NRL has the potential to be a true national game, not just in the capital cities. If we can eventually spread our game to Perth and heaven forbid even Adelaide we will be the true national game and that has a lot of power for advertisers.

NZ2 does have its merit though. I think it would be a great way to bolster the amount of juniors we get coming from NZ and would finally give the warriors a proper rival. I think it could be a big move in terms of the growth of the game in NZ.

I will say that whilst PNG is not a realistic option and may never be we absolutely need to look improving the pathway for PNG players to enter the NRL and doing as much as we can for the game there (including giving them more opportunities for international games). RL is the undisputed top sport in PNG a country with 9 million people and growing rapidly. Considering how much we bang on about the lack of talent in the game it's crazy how much we're wasting this oppurtunity.

It’s the problem with having clubs in charge of developing their own talent: they either don’t have the money or they don’t know how to. Well a vast majority of them in any case

That’s why you have to give them a benefit. Give the clubs free spots on their salary cap for players directly from PNG and Fiji. It’s pretty simple economics: only taxes and incentives can change behaviour
 

jim_57

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
4,602
This is why we should be pushing for a PNG driven team, i prefer it to be based in cairns, but as long as we can access the 8 million RL folk, ill be happy, just seems that the NRL clubs are just looking for players that have 1st grade experience, instead of focusing on Qcup experience aswell, its seems to be the same ol set of players getting traded around from clubs to clubs... more Olams and Boas

Hunters playing in the U16 & U18 QLD comps would be a good start at least. Either that or a club or 2 properly commit to identifying & developing PNG juniors.
 

jim_57

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
4,602
It’s the problem with having clubs in charge of developing their own talent: they either don’t have the money or they don’t know how to. Well a vast majority of them in any case

That’s why you have to give them a benefit. Give the clubs free spots on their salary cap for players directly from PNG and Fiji. It’s pretty simple economics: only taxes and incentives can change behaviour

It’ll never happen but a return of the Under 20s with a few extra standalone sides thrown in would be great. It would require some strong backing from NRL and/or governments but it could really improve the quality and depth of the NRL over time.

Say we have all NRL clubs running their U20s side then add PNG Hunters, Kaiviti Silktails, maybe an Auckland based team with pathways to Tonga & Samoa as well.
 

Colk

First Grade
Messages
6,750
It’ll never happen but a return of the Under 20s with a few extra standalone sides thrown in would be great. It would require some strong backing from NRL and/or governments but it could really improve the quality and depth of the NRL over time.

Say we have all NRL clubs running their U20s side then add PNG Hunters, Kaiviti Silktails, maybe an Auckland based team with pathways to Tonga & Samoa as well.

The only way the current system can work is if you have split regions of roughly equal distance and population and have it centrally funded by the NRL and have an academy system set up by a few people employed by the NRL at the beginning (somebody like Phil Gould for example). The clubs can run it after a certain period of time (I’d prefer it to be run by a body seperate to the clubs but anyway if this is part of a negotiation to get it approved then so be it) but as part of the process they would have to meet certain criteria (a certain amount of players, players registered in the area)

The problem with the current process is a few things

1. Money - For every club like Penrith or even Melbourne who have the money to run an academy, there is a Newcastle or Gold Coast who have been in the past (thankfully in the past) who haven’t had the money to put any significant funds for junior development. How many players could have been produced in these regions in the past 10-15 years if there were significant monies put into these regions.

2. Inability - Some clubs just don’t have the ability to produce juniors because of the areas that they currently look after or just because they don’t have the proper systems in place. Again, how does this help the production of junior talent for the whole competition having this in place

3. Conflict of interest - Another good example is the Storm and the lack of talent coming from Victoria. People complain about this but why would the Storm not look at an option like Sunshine Coast instead of Melbourne. If they want to continue to be dominant, they are always going to look at an area wherein they can develop talent quicker and at a rate that is less expensive than ploughing money into Melbourne. If you have a body above the club at least investing in development in Victoria then this conflict of interest is removed. It will also make it a lot easier to expand to other regions in WA and SA - they can be given a region in NSW and QLD until such time as those areas are able to produce a lot of home grown talent

Anyway the current system is an absolute mess. The player market is a joke, player managers have way too much power (how many players have broken contracts recently) and players just gravitate to a certain few clubs. It is no coincidence that the clubs who are having the most success just have the most money to invest in development and recruitment (a few notable exceptions otherwise).

If you are not going to have a draft then you need to have something else alongside the salary cap in order to balance out the problems with the cap (make it more transparent, make it harder for certain clubs to just poach players from other clubs). Having an outside body pay for junior development would also remove imbalances with junior development and help produce the most amount of talent for the competition at large
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
69,520
In another clear example of why the nrl simply has to grow its national footprint the nrl is about to sign a $10mill a year deal with telstra for competition naming right PLUS digital offerings. In comparison afl signed JUST a naming rights deal with Toyota a couple of years ago for $18.5million a year!
 
Messages
14,822
The only way the current system can work is if you have split regions of roughly equal distance and population and have it centrally funded by the NRL and have an academy system set up by a few people employed by the NRL at the beginning (somebody like Phil Gould for example). The clubs can run it after a certain period of time (I’d prefer it to be run by a body seperate to the clubs but anyway if this is part of a negotiation to get it approved then so be it) but as part of the process they would have to meet certain criteria (a certain amount of players, players registered in the area)

The problem with the current process is a few things

1. Money - For every club like Penrith or even Melbourne who have the money to run an academy, there is a Newcastle or Gold Coast who have been in the past (thankfully in the past) who haven’t had the money to put any significant funds for junior development. How many players could have been produced in these regions in the past 10-15 years if there were significant monies put into these regions.

2. Inability - Some clubs just don’t have the ability to produce juniors because of the areas that they currently look after or just because they don’t have the proper systems in place. Again, how does this help the production of junior talent for the whole competition having this in place

3. Conflict of interest - Another good example is the Storm and the lack of talent coming from Victoria. People complain about this but why would the Storm not look at an option like Sunshine Coast instead of Melbourne. If they want to continue to be dominant, they are always going to look at an area wherein they can develop talent quicker and at a rate that is less expensive than ploughing money into Melbourne. If you have a body above the club at least investing in development in Victoria then this conflict of interest is removed. It will also make it a lot easier to expand to other regions in WA and SA - they can be given a region in NSW and QLD until such time as those areas are able to produce a lot of home grown talent

Anyway the current system is an absolute mess. The player market is a joke, player managers have way too much power (how many players have broken contracts recently) and players just gravitate to a certain few clubs. It is no coincidence that the clubs who are having the most success just have the most money to invest in development and recruitment (a few notable exceptions otherwise).

If you are not going to have a draft then you need to have something else alongside the salary cap in order to balance out the problems with the cap (make it more transparent, make it harder for certain clubs to just poach players from other clubs). Having an outside body pay for junior development would also remove imbalances with junior development and help produce the most amount of talent for the competition at large
All valid points. I don't see much changing in the next 5 to 10 years. My hope is Redcliffe are a huge success, on and off the field, to the detriment of Melbourne Storm so that it's not the same team winning every week.

I think the ARLC need to stop playing SOO and Test matches in Melbourne until the Victorian Government agree to set aside land within 25 KM of the CBD so that a few clubs can finally be created!

SOO is a prestigious event, and if we're going to hold it in Melbourne then we need to get something in return, other than a bit of money that will be pissed up the wall by the clubs.
 

Colk

First Grade
Messages
6,750
SCAll valid points. I don't see much changing in the next 5 to 10 years. My hope is Redcliffe are a huge success, on and off the field, to the detriment of Melbourne Storm so that it's not the same team winning every week.

I think the ARLC need to stop playing SOO and Test matches in Melbourne until the Victorian Government agree to set aside land within 25 KM of the CBD so that a few clubs can finally be created!

SOO is a prestigious event, and if we're going to hold it in Melbourne then we need to get something in return, other than a bit of money that will be pissed up the wall by the clubs.

Hmm I think based on some of the reactions and even from clubs in the past; emotional self-interest is a massive resistance to change.

If the whole game was looked at objectively and not through the prism of an individual club then you could identify that junior development isn’t working as well it should and that the competition isn’t as competitive as it should be - the latter being particularly evident
 

Colk

First Grade
Messages
6,750
Also GROTD what do you mean by clubs in Melbourne? Do you mean junior teams; teams for a Melbourne RL comp?
 
Messages
14,822
Also GROTD what do you mean by clubs in Melbourne? Do you mean junior teams; teams for a Melbourne RL comp?
Junior clubs. I think @Jamberoo was saying there aren't any clubs within 25KM of the CBD. It's ridiculous that our game has sat back and allowed this to happen. Fumbleball gets the Queensland Government to gift them land for junior clubs and stadiums for their AwFuL teams. Our game cannot run a chook raffle.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
69,520
Th
Junior clubs. I think @Jamberoo was saying there aren't any clubs within 25KM of the CBD. It's ridiculous that our game has sat back and allowed this to happen. Fumbleball gets the Queensland Government to gift them land for junior clubs and stadiums for their AwFuL teams. Our game cannot run a chook raffle.
That’s not correct, NW wolves are 15kms from cbd, Waverley oakleigh panthers 20kms away, sunshine cowboys 20km out.

the closest club to perth cbd would be north beach who are 20kms away, I don’t see the issue of how far clubs are from the cbd??

Vic govt. have also just funded a $12mill RL centre. In regards to origin this isn’t some sort of altruistic move by the nrl, state govt’s pay millions of $ to host a game! Maybe a more pertinent demand would be for the nrl to ringfence the many millions of $’s it gets from Vic, Wa, SA govt’s and use it to invest in grassroots growth in those states!
 
Last edited:
Messages
14,822
Th

That’s not correct, NW wolves are 15kms from cbd, Waverley oakleigh panthers 20kms away, sunshine cowboys 20km out.

the closest club to perth cbd would be north beach who are 20kms away, I don’t see the issue of how far clubs are from the cbd??

Vic govt. have also just funded a $12mill RL centre. In regards to origin this isn’t some sort of altruistic move by the nrl, state govt’s pay millions of $ to host a game! Maybe a more pertinent demand would be for the nrl to ringfence the many millions of $’s it gets from Vic, Wa, SA govt’s and use it to invest in grassroots growth in those states!
The NRL only cares about how much money it can generate for the 16 NRL clubs, which is like a drunk pissing their weekly wage up a wall. It would be so much wiser for the NRL to use the money it gets from SOO matches in Melbourne, Perth and Adelaide to grow the grassroots competitions in those cities so that in 20 years time they're producing players of their own.

AwFuL splashes cash all over Queensland and NSW despite not having a SOO product. It's bearing fruit for them in the form of players and fans.

Imagine how much bigger the game would be in Melbourne if there was a concerted effort to develop the game at the local level back in 2000?

There would be far more junior clubs and local juniors playing in the NRL. Whatever is spent on the 16 NRL clubs in 2022 will not benefit the game at all in 2042. What's spent on developing the game at the grassroots level in 2022 will have an impact on how many people are playing and watching the game in 2042.
 

titoelcolombiano

First Grade
Messages
6,620
All valid points. I don't see much changing in the next 5 to 10 years. My hope is Redcliffe are a huge success, on and off the field, to the detriment of Melbourne Storm so that it's not the same team winning every week.

I think the ARLC need to stop playing SOO and Test matches in Melbourne until the Victorian Government agree to set aside land within 25 KM of the CBD so that a few clubs can finally be created!

SOO is a prestigious event, and if we're going to hold it in Melbourne then we need to get something in return, other than a bit of money that will be pissed up the wall by the clubs.
Agree with the notion that the State of Origin has to be awarded for more than just cash. There has to be a deal struck around Government investment in grass roots and local RL clubs in the city that wins the bid. Origin is our biggest product and it should leave a legacy, just like the current world cup team is doing with the RLWC.
 

titoelcolombiano

First Grade
Messages
6,620
The NRL only cares about how much money it can generate for the 16 NRL clubs, which is like a drunk pissing their weekly wage up a wall. It would be so much wiser for the NRL to use the money it gets from SOO matches in Melbourne, Perth and Adelaide to grow the grassroots competitions in those cities so that in 20 years time they're producing players of their own.

AwFuL splashes cash all over Queensland and NSW despite not having a SOO product. It's bearing fruit for them in the form of players and fans.

Imagine how much bigger the game would be in Melbourne if there was a concerted effort to develop the game at the local level back in 2000?

There would be far more junior clubs and local juniors playing in the NRL. Whatever is spent on the 16 NRL clubs in 2022 will not benefit the game at all in 2042. What's spent on developing the game at the grassroots level in 2022 will have an impact on how many people are playing and watching the game in 2042.
The The Dolphins were told to spend on grass roots as a condition of their licence. Hopefully Perth is given this same requirement so that at least they are required to invest in the local RL scene. I believe from what @Perth Red says that one of the bidders is currently funding most of the local scene anyway.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
69,520
There is no doubt there is an enormous untapped reserve of athletes all over the world. Having the right infrastructure, pathways and opportunities is another matter And something we’ve struggled with in rugby league Within RL countries, let alone new frontiers.
 

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