What's new
The Front Row Forums

Register a free account today to become a member of the world's largest Rugby League discussion forum! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

18th team still possible this tv deal

Pippen94

First Grade
Messages
5,858
How many 300k can you fit into 5 million?
Thats the equation to solve how many sydney clubs can exist in the market....
Remember out of the 300k, there are foreigners how don't want to follow the sport dilute that number... and its more evident in sydneys 5mil
Hell the roosters exist without juniors, crowds, a backbone and basically live out of politis's wallet

The saturation of Sydney is a myth, its all about comparisons to the likes of bronx


Comparing Melbourne's nine AwFuL clubs with Sydney's nine NRL clubs gives clout to the relocation argument. Look at the attendances.

Carlton Blues
46,730

Collingwood Magpies
58,975

Essendon Bombers
47,733

Hawthorn Hawks
31,077

Melbourne Demons
28,968

North Melbourne Kangaroos
20,808

Richmond Tigers
59,987

St Kilda Saints
25,401

Western Bulldogs
26,747

Total Average = 38,491


Canterbury-Bankstown Bulldogs
15,274

Cronulla-Sutherland Sharks
12,224

Manly-Warringah Sea Eagles
13,777

Parramatta Eels
18,396

Penrith Panthers
12,482

South Sydney Rabbitohs
15,601

St George Illawarra Dragons
9813

Sydney Roosters
17,251

Western Sydney Tigers
15,867

Total Average Attendance = 14,520


Almost 24,000 more people attend an AwFuL game in Melbourne than an NRL game in Sydney. The extra amount of people attending AwFuL games in Melbourne is almost 10k greater than the 14.5k people from Sydney who bother to turn up see their team play.

The lowest drawing Melbourne-based AwFuL club draws 2.5k more people to its games than Sydney's best attended team!

One AwFuL game in Melbourne draws MORE people than two NRL games in Sydney!

I get that some home games for Sydney's NRL clubs are played regionally, but this holds true for a couple of Melbourne's AwFuL clubs as well. If Sydney wants to have nine teams then it needs to lift the attendances for its clubs. 14.5k is pathetic and is below the Melbourne Storm, who are embedded in fumbleball heartland. I'll also point out that the maligned Roosters attract almost 3k more people than the Sydney average, which makes a mockery of the comments about relocating them to Adelaide.

We know this. Afl draws bigger crowds for a variety of reasons. Not least because the city is centralized & easy to get around. Point is a city Sydney's size has room for many teams. Particularly when in Australia the fastest growing places are the big metros
 

Pippen94

First Grade
Messages
5,858
No they don’t; at least not in isolation. Sydney clubs get bigger grants because they are part of a competition that now has a bigger reach than what it did. If your point was correct then the Sydney competition would have fetched big TV deals but it didn’t.

The same is also true of AFL if you want to compare them again - they only got TV deals once they had more markets

That's just plain dumb. TV rights boom only happened in past decade as viewership has dropped placing priority on live content. You know this.
 

Colk

First Grade
Messages
6,442
That's just plain dumb. TV rights boom only happened in past decade as viewership has dropped placing priority on live content. You know this.

I do know this but your argument, if it were to be drawn to its logical conclusion, would suggest that somehow a competition full of Sydney teams would lead to the same TV deals as we are getting now. That is a completely delusional point.

The way competitions such as the AFL draw the maximum amount of dollars from a TV contract is by having teams in the most amount of markets they can. Pretty simple
 

Colk

First Grade
Messages
6,442
We know this. Afl draws bigger crowds for a variety of reasons. Not least because the city is centralized & easy to get around. Point is a city Sydney's size has room for many teams. Particularly when in Australia the fastest growing places are the big metros

Yes, Sydney can have many teams. That is not in dispute. All I am reasonably pointing out is that in the 90’s when you had 11 Sydney sides, it was not sustainable. It definitely wasn’t sustainable for some of those teams. Super League or not, some of them would have gone bust.
 
Messages
12,780
We know this. Afl draws bigger crowds for a variety of reasons. Not least because the city is centralized & easy to get around. Point is a city Sydney's size has room for many teams. Particularly when in Australia the fastest growing places are the big metros
The other day MugaB said travel is not a problem for Sydneysiders.
 

siv

First Grade
Messages
6,563
As PR said, the broadcasters will have the final say.
This raises a interesting aspect in the selection process

Brisbane 3
- 4 rivalry games
- Ch9 no benefit. Maybe some Sunday Brisbane games
- Fox pushes more Broncos fans to Kayo. Maybe Sunday 6:30 timeslot

NZ2
- 1 rivarly game
- Ch9 no benefit
- Fox means Fri 6pm could have better content
- Benefits Sky

Perth
- no rivarly games
- Ch9 no benefit
- Fox get a Sat 9:30 timeslot

CC Bears
- 10 rivalry games
- Ch 9 gets more meaniful games
- Fox could use it to relaunch MNF or Sun 6:30
 

siv

First Grade
Messages
6,563
No matter which way you look at crowds

Venue size is a factor
Scheduling is a factor

You will never get a average bigger than the venue size, simple maths

Venue size created a culture of 10-15k supporters in Sydney

Easts figures are more a reflection of SCG members turning up to multiple sports. You notice where most people sit on game days
 

MugaB

Coach
Messages
12,152
The other day MugaB said travel is not a problem for Sydneysiders.
Its not till you get to have to get to a manly home game, or a bad timeslot on a peek hour weekday.. but thats anywhere really, most posts from you about your travels to suncorp are similar.... travel in my opinion isn't an issue, demographics is, we aren't selling the game to those fresh off the boat.. yes we are very multicultural in players and fans, but there are massive pockets of FOBs in Sydney just that aren't interested, gotta figure a way to turn them, or at least get few interested then that can filter thru, in the late 90s there was a player called hazem el mazri, he was a catalyst for the lebanese community to follow canterbury, now they are actively following most sydney clubs, i see a lot at dragons games, plenty pawwa games too.
Its not being racist to point out demographics, but it seems that certian clubs are not pulling their weight in the catchments they represent
 
Last edited:

mongoose

Coach
Messages
11,354
We know this. Afl draws bigger crowds for a variety of reasons. Not least because the city is centralized & easy to get around. Point is a city Sydney's size has room for many teams. Particularly when in Australia the fastest growing places are the big metros
Sydney's demographics have changed so much since the 90s though. Way more immigrants plus also the inner suburbs becoming more and more gentrified and very unaffordable. I read somewhere Sydney is in the top few least affordable cities in the world so is there really anymore marketshare for Rugby League there?
Meanwhile cities like Perth and Adelaide have few sports options during winter, Perth at least would have a lot of expats from the eastern states and the UK who could follow an NRL team. Even the born and bred sandgropers can get behind the NRL team when their AFL team is having a poor year. There have been so many Broncos fans who have jumped on the Lions the last couple of years (broncos are down, lions are up)- you could easily replicate that dynamic in Perth for NRL. It defies belief that they don't want to try it....
 

TheRam

Coach
Messages
13,480
If the 18th franchise isn't NZ2 and in Christchurch then the ARLC has rocks in it head. Not Wellington or some games in Wellington and some games in Christchurch. That type of scenario is a joke. All home games in Christchurch. Period! That city should be rewarded and let it be shown that that is what the NRL will expect and reward with a franchise if a city is prepared to accommodate it. Actually announce it in a press statement that that is what got the franchise over the line compared to any other potential bidders or locations. We reward great public initiatives. You build it and we will come.

When the new indoor 30K city stadium opens we should be adding a team there and start a whole new and exciting chapter for NZ Rugby League. There is no better option with ready made juniors, TV money and a brand new sparkling home ground to play out of. It would be enormous and finally make NZ rugby league look professional and cool again. The Warriors look like a 2 bit amateurish organisation every time we see them run out to play on that field they call their home ground. I have stopped watching them unless they are playing Parra. I just couldn't be bothered watching no atmosphere and lackluster games anymore. Especially the night games in the dead of winter with poorly lit and almost empty grass hills and half full old grandstands to look at.

But you add a team in Christchurch and get it playing out of the new stadium, well it changes everything. Like I said before, it might even finally prompt Auckland's Pollies to finally pull the trigger on their proposed waterfront city stadium too to keep up with the smaller regional city that has made them look like second rate amateurs. Either way win win for both NZ and RL.

If Perth want a team then build a hot new stadium too, otherwise sit in the queue and bide your time till when the NRL deems you are ready and worthy, if ever.

 

MugaB

Coach
Messages
12,152
If the 18th franchise isn't NZ2 and in Christchurch then the ARLC has rocks in it head. Not Wellington or some games in Wellington and some games in Christchurch. That type of scenario is a joke. All home games in Christchurch. Period! That city should be rewarded and let it be shown that that is what the NRL will expect and reward with a franchise if a city is prepared to accommodate it. Actually announce it in a press statement that that is what got the franchise over the line compared to any other potential bidders or locations. We reward great public initiatives. You build it and we will come.

When the new indoor 30K city stadium opens we should be adding a team there and start a whole new and exciting chapter for NZ Rugby League. There is no better option with ready made juniors, TV money and a brand new sparkling home ground to play out of. It would be enormous and finally make NZ rugby league look professional and cool again. The Warriors look like a 2 bit amateurish organisation every time we see them run out to play on that field they call their home ground. I have stopped watching them unless they are playing Parra. I just couldn't be bothered watching no atmosphere and lackluster games anymore. Especially the night games in the dead of winter with poorly lit and almost empty grass hills and half full old grandstands to look at.

But you add a team in Christchurch and get it playing out of the new stadium, well it changes everything. Like I said before, it might even finally prompt Auckland's Pollies to finally pull the trigger on their proposed waterfront city stadium too to keep up with the smaller regional city that has made them look like second rate amateurs. Either way win win for both NZ and RL.

If Perth want a team then build a hot new stadium too, otherwise sit in the queue and bide your time till when the NRL deems you are ready and worthy, if ever.

That's right Ram! ram it home brother
 
Messages
12,780
This raises a interesting aspect in the selection process

Brisbane 3
- 4 rivalry games
- Ch9 no benefit. Maybe some Sunday Brisbane games
- Fox pushes more Broncos fans to Kayo. Maybe Sunday 6:30 timeslot

NZ2
- 1 rivarly game
- Ch9 no benefit
- Fox means Fri 6pm could have better content
- Benefits Sky

Perth
- no rivarly games
- Ch9 no benefit
- Fox get a Sat 9:30 timeslot

CC Bears
- 10 rivalry games
- Ch 9 gets more meaniful games
- Fox could use it to relaunch MNF or Sun 6:30
You cannot see how Ch9 benefit from having a third Brisbane team?

LOL!

For a start, they broadcast three games a week. Having three Brisbane teams ensures that most rounds can feature a Brisbane vs Sydney game on FTA on Thurs, Fri and Sun, maximising ratings in Brisbane and Sydney.

North Sydney Bears offers sweet f**k all to Ch 9 and Foxtel as no one in Queensland will watch them play. There won't be a massive influx of people from Sydney watching them play.
 

Colk

First Grade
Messages
6,442
If the 18th franchise isn't NZ2 and in Christchurch then the ARLC has rocks in it head. Not Wellington or some games in Wellington and some games in Christchurch. That type of scenario is a joke. All home games in Christchurch. Period! That city should be rewarded and let it be shown that that is what the NRL will expect and reward with a franchise if a city is prepared to accommodate it. Actually announce it in a press statement that that is what got the franchise over the line compared to any other potential bidders or locations. We reward great public initiatives. You build it and we will come.

When the new indoor 30K city stadium opens we should be adding a team there and start a whole new and exciting chapter for NZ Rugby League. There is no better option with ready made juniors, TV money and a brand new sparkling home ground to play out of. It would be enormous and finally make NZ rugby league look professional and cool again. The Warriors look like a 2 bit amateurish organisation every time we see them run out to play on that field they call their home ground. I have stopped watching them unless they are playing Parra. I just couldn't be bothered watching no atmosphere and lackluster games anymore. Especially the night games in the dead of winter with poorly lit and almost empty grass hills and half full old grandstands to look at.

But you add a team in Christchurch and get it playing out of the new stadium, well it changes everything. Like I said before, it might even finally prompt Auckland's Pollies to finally pull the trigger on their proposed waterfront city stadium too to keep up with the smaller regional city that has made them look like second rate amateurs. Either way win win for both NZ and RL.

If Perth want a team then build a hot new stadium too, otherwise sit in the queue and bide your time till when the NRL deems you are ready and worthy, if ever.


Perth already have a stadium though. I also think the state government were going to upgrade the stadium if a Perth team were chosen.

It’s a shame that the Adelaide stadium didn’t go through as that would have been a perfect 20 team competition.
 

siv

First Grade
Messages
6,563
Having three Brisbane teams ensures that most rounds can feature a Brisbane vs Sydney game on FTA on Thurs, Fri and Sun,
I think this is where your assumption will be incorrect

FTA will want to show SYD v SYD derbies first choice. Those matches aren't decreasing. I expect Dolphins will just move Broncos or Storm off FTA
 
Messages
12,780
No matter which way you look at crowds

Venue size is a factor
Scheduling is a factor

You will never get a average bigger than the venue size, simple maths

Venue size created a culture of 10-15k supporters in Sydney

Easts figures are more a reflection of SCG members turning up to multiple sports. You notice where most people sit on game days
If all that's true then why aren't Rabbitohs and Bulldogs averaging 70k?

They play at Stadium Australia, which has a larger capacity than Docklands! The AwFuL teams playing at Docklands draw bigger crowds than the Rabbitohs and Bulldogs.
 
Messages
12,780
Its not till you get to have to get to a manly home game, or a bad timeslot on a peek hour weekday.. but thats anywhere really, most posts from you about your travels to suncorp are similar.... travel in my opinion isn't an issue, demographics is, we aren't selling the game to those fresh off the boat.. yes we are very multicultural in players and fans, but there are massive pockets of FOBs in Sydney just that aren't interested, gotta figure a way to turn them, or at least get few interested then that can filter thru, in the late 90s there was a player called hazem el mazri, he was a catalyst for the lebanese community to follow canterbury, now they are actively following most sydney clubs, i see a lot at dragons games, plenty pawwa games too.
Its not being racist to point out demographics, but it seems that certian clubs are not pulling their weight in the catchments they represent
I have serious health problems that make travelling and walking for long distances difficult. Plenty of pets at home that cannot be left unattended for too long.

The Thurs 7.50pm and Fri 6pm games don't encourage people to get out to games. We're just a TV show these days, which is dangerous. TV programs that lose viewers get cut.
 
Messages
12,780
I think this is where your assumption will be incorrect

FTA will want to show SYD v SYD derbies first choice. Those matches aren't decreasing. I expect Dolphins will just move Broncos or Storm off FTA
Do you have any evidence to back this up or is it just your opinion?

Statistics don't back you up. The dropoff in Brisbane when two Sydney teams are playing is much greater than the drop off in Sydney when interstate teams are playing. Colin Smith has spoken about this and it's been covered extensively on this forum.

Here's an article quoting him on this subject.

 
Last edited:

siv

First Grade
Messages
6,563
Do you have any evidence to back this up or is it just your opinion?

Statistics don't back you up. The dropoff in Brisbane when two Sydney teams are playing is much greater than the drop off in Sydney when interstate teams are playing. Colin Smith has spoken about this and it's been covered extensively on this forum.

Here's an article quoting him on this subject.

Yes but in the reverse the variations in Sydney will be greater
 

siv

First Grade
Messages
6,563
If all that's true then why aren't Rabbitohs and Bulldogs averaging 70k?

They play at Stadium Australia, which has a larger capacity than Docklands! The AwFuL teams playing at Docklands draw bigger crowds than the Rabbitohs and Bulldogs.
AFL doesnt average 70k why do you expect RL to average higher?

Live TV erroded game day attendances

Didnt you notice the return of 40-50k crowds once scheduling was improved at ANZ?

Someone has to be a bottom 4 team, those clubs always have a drop in attendances. You are seeing that with the Broncos in Brisbane. Soon as a team is out of the running crowds drop

The covid effect on attendances will be felt for years to come
 
Top