Stalled and stagnant Sydney clubs

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Sometimes, I don’t see a lot of ‘hardcore’ RL supporters going to RL games.

When I do go to games, I see very mixed crowds, enjoying themselves.

So really, the product is there, the NRL and clubs need to work on getting the customers there, and get repeat business.

I find it cumbersome to attend games live. I hate using public toilets and don't drink, so it's horrible sitting next to a bunch of pissheads. I also have T1DM, so it's hard to get through a game without having a hypoglycaemic event. I can only drive when my BGL is over 5, and being at a game usually makes it drop below that number. I don't like eating at the ground as I hate carrying insulin around.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Inner west and ryde, with tigers being so inept at the moment too... this is actually pretty interesting graph, i like the fact that the small pockets of Sydney seem to be more fanatical, rather than the teams wgo represent a more wider scope, Sutherland, CC, and northern beaches seem to be more in tune with RL along with the Outer West/Blacktown meaning Penrith, Manly and Cronulla are more valued or might be the fact all 3 three teams are doing well on the ladder these past 5 years, theyre also more of a community clubs rather than a club like bronx, roosters or storm who pretend to represent their whole city, with CC being top of that list in sydney maybe its bears or a relocated team could venture there ala what the dragons do at WIN

You might be right about smaller clubs having a more fanatical supporter base. Wynnum Manly Seagulls are the best supported BRL club and draw strong crowds who are very vocal. The combined population of Wynnum, Wynnum West, Manly and Manly West is about 50k.

Souths Logan have no support in Logan and bugger all people from southern Brisbane bother to attend their games at West End, which is an inner city suburb with a high population density and lots of people commuting through it each day. I've been to Souths Logan games where I and a handfull of other people were the only ones watching from the sidelines.

Norths Devils draw poor crowds in Nundah. Easts Tigers draw decent crowds. Redcliffe Dolphins have always been strong. Ipswich Jets draw more than Norths and Souths Logan but not as much as Wynnum, Redcliffe and Easts.

 

[The Great Dane]

Interesting you mention those three areas. Interest in NRL there is strong. Areas without teams drop off;
View attachment 60103

Losing bears hurt.

Either you've never read the book or this is a very poor piece of cherry picking.

If you'd read the book you'd know that Dr Fujak clearly shows that rationalisation works when done well (Swans and Lions being the undeniable examples), and that removing the Bears wasn't the issue, it was abandoning the NS region to it's own machinations after removing the Bears that was the mistake.

Dr Fujak also goes into deep detail as to why Sydney has the most competitive sports market of the major capital cities, and it's got little to nothing to do with the rationalisation of the NRL in the late 90s. That graph actually supports that position as well, as 3 of the bottom 5 regions of Sydney with the lowest interest in RL actually have direct representation in the NRL, those being the City and Inner South (Souths, Easts, and St. George), Eastern Suburbs (Easts and Souths), and Inner West (Tigers).

So surely if simply having an NRL team in a region was enough to ensure high interest in the NRL those regions would be up near the top of that graph, not near the bottom, and given their circumstances it's probably not safe to assume that the North Sydney region would be much better off if the Bears hadn't been given the arse.

So basically you've done yourself a mischief because you've disproved your own claim with your own evidence.

 

[The Mad Hatter]

I find it cumbersome to attend games live. I hate using public toilets and don't drink, so it's horrible sitting next to a bunch of pissheads. I also have T1DM, so it's hard to get through a game without having a hypoglycaemic event. I can only drive when my BGL is over 5, and being at a game usually makes it drop below that number. I don't like eating at the ground as I hate carrying insulin around.

I’m sorry for your personal situation; that would indeed make it tough to go to games.

As someone who goes to quite a number of NRL matches, supporting my own club or by attending neutral matches, I have always found crowds, on the whole, well behaved.

The heavy drinking you talk of, I just don’t agree with. Many families attend games. Many mixed families ( Souths / Roosters; Tigers/Dragons ) etc sit together, and whilst there might be banter, no fights. It’s why I don’t like the ‘hate’ angle for Souths-Easts rivalry because it just is so false.
Yes I have seen the odd brawl or boozy punter, or someone hurling vitriol, but usually that is shut down really quickly.

I actually attended a Sharks game back in mid 00s, where a boozy, agro (more mean spirited) sharks fan was having a go at me in a real nasty way. It went on for 5-10 minutes before people around him told him to shut up, then he was removed. The amount of fans around me apologising saying they hoped we hadn’t had our night spoiled was amazing and I always remember it.

I travel to away games or neutral games. A lot. And not always ‘that’ Rabbitohs fan in the crowd, I regularly go to Canberra, Newcastle, Melbourne, Gold Coast. Penrith, Gong and Kogarah, Campbelltown and Leichhardt, Para, Manly… never ever had issues. Ever. Sure, you get mouthy guts but you sometimes need a thick skin and move on.

But back on topic, stalled or stagnant clubs … if the clubs and nrl worked harder on most aspects of the game, despite the cyclical nature of the comp, clubs could remain healthy and fan bases strong and engaged.

 

[Iamback]

I’m sorry for your personal situation; that would indeed make it tough to go to games.

As someone who goes to quite a number of NRL matches, supporting my own club or by attending neutral matches, I have always found crowds, on the whole, well behaved.

The heavy drinking you talk of, I just don’t agree with. Many families attend games. Many mixed families ( Souths / Roosters; Tigers/Dragons ) etc sit together, and whilst there might be banter, no fights. It’s why I don’t like the ‘hate’ angle for Souths-Easts rivalry because it just is so false.
Yes I have seen the odd brawl or boozy punter, or someone hurling vitriol, but usually that is shut down really quickly.

I actually attended a Sharks game back in mid 00s, where a boozy, agro (more mean spirited) sharks fan was having a go at me in a real nasty way. It went on for 5-10 minutes before people around him told him to shut up, then he was removed. The amount of fans around me apologising saying they hoped we hadn’t had our night spoiled was amazing and I always remember it.

I travel to away games or neutral games. A lot. And not always ‘that’ Rabbitohs fan in the crowd, I regularly go to Canberra, Newcastle, Melbourne, Gold Coast. Penrith, Gong and Kogarah, Campbelltown and Leichhardt, Para, Manly… never ever had issues. Ever. Sure, you get mouthy guts but you sometimes need a thick skin and move on.

But back on topic, stalled or stagnant clubs … if the clubs and nrl worked harder on most aspects of the game, despite the cyclical nature of the comp, clubs could remain healthy and fan bases strong and engaged.

For me I like that they have built up the ANZAC Day game. Draws well regardless of form.
They need to find a few more events and build them up and it lifts the average do cover for teams form dropping

 

[Cactus]

Does that mean Easts to Welington then, that's pretty far east

Surely Easts to China and renamed the Far Easts

Easts to The Solomons.

Thats about to be chinas' far east pretty soon.

 

[Reflector]

Interesting you mention those three areas. Interest in NRL there is strong. Areas without teams drop off;
View attachment 60103

Losing bears hurt.

Yeah but hadn't you heard-

The Central Coast is part of Sydney, so no team for them!

 

[siv]

Media have a lot to do with attracting crowds

ANZAC day is always given a positive vibe in the media

But as the media bag almost every aspect of the game they turn off people spending their money

Killing off the 3 game game say experiance hasnt helped

And you now have the new 75 inch TV experiance at home

So many reasons driving fans away

 

[Perth Red]

Not sure the 3 game bit makes much difference there was hardly anyone at the two lower grade games. Not to mention with ko times now all over the place most games you could t have pre games on,
I guess when the nrlw comp finally hits full stride there would be nothing stopping the nrlw game being before the main event?

agree about the media, too much negativity and not enough hype. We need to control them better, especially as the nrl has now closed its own media Dept down.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

I’m sorry for your personal situation; that would indeed make it tough to go to games.

As someone who goes to quite a number of NRL matches, supporting my own club or by attending neutral matches, I have always found crowds, on the whole, well behaved.

The heavy drinking you talk of, I just don’t agree with. Many families attend games. Many mixed families ( Souths / Roosters; Tigers/Dragons ) etc sit together, and whilst there might be banter, no fights. It’s why I don’t like the ‘hate’ angle for Souths-Easts rivalry because it just is so false.
Yes I have seen the odd brawl or boozy punter, or someone hurling vitriol, but usually that is shut down really quickly.

I actually attended a Sharks game back in mid 00s, where a boozy, agro (more mean spirited) sharks fan was having a go at me in a real nasty way. It went on for 5-10 minutes before people around him told him to shut up, then he was removed. The amount of fans around me apologising saying they hoped we hadn’t had our night spoiled was amazing and I always remember it.

I travel to away games or neutral games. A lot. And not always ‘that’ Rabbitohs fan in the crowd, I regularly go to Canberra, Newcastle, Melbourne, Gold Coast. Penrith, Gong and Kogarah, Campbelltown and Leichhardt, Para, Manly… never ever had issues. Ever. Sure, you get mouthy guts but you sometimes need a thick skin and move on.

But back on topic, stalled or stagnant clubs … if the clubs and nrl worked harder on most aspects of the game, despite the cyclical nature of the comp, clubs could remain healthy and fan bases strong and engaged.

Whenever I've been to Lang Park and Robina Stadium I've had my enjoyment of the game interrupted by people getting to their seats with a tray of grog in their hand. It happens numerous times a game and makes it hard to keep up with the action as the rows are very narrow, so it takes people ages to get to their seat.

 

[The Great Dane]

Media have a lot to do with attracting crowds

ANZAC day is always given a positive vibe in the media

But as the media bag almost every aspect of the game they turn off people spending their money

Trying to blame the media for poor marketing and bad publicity is stupid.

It shouldn't be the media's job to promote and market the game, it's the NRL and club's, and it's nobodies fault but theirs that the NRL relies almost exclusively on it's broadcast partners to advertise the game through contra and that most clubs invest next to nothing into marketing and advertising.

Killing off the 3 game game say experiance hasnt helped

Nobody under the age of 40-45 gives two shits about three games on game day, and in younger demographics (under 30s) the idea of spending the better part of a whole day at the ground is going to be a turn off more often than not.

This push to reintroduce reserve grade and three games on game day shows just how stuck in the past and disconnected from reality the NRL has become. Every decision the NRL makes seems to be trying to sell nostalgia to older demos, and suggests that the NRL is incapable of understanding that times have changed and with younger people they are in competition with social media, video games, etc, for their time.

And you now have the new 75 inch TV experiance at home

If the gameday experience was offering something that you couldn't get from watching at home then more people would come. Problem is that at most clubs the gameday is not offering a unique experience, and more often than not the gameday experience is worse than the watching from home.

Again, it's nobodies fault but the club's that most of them invest next to nothing into their gameday. It's honestly astounding the lack of production value that goes into most NRL games, and what's even more concerning is that the clubs that have actually tried to significantly improve their gameday experience tend to get hammered for it by talking heads and other fans.

So many reasons driving fans away

And rather ironically you seem to be incapable of recognising any of them, and would exacerbate most of them if given the chance...

 

[The Great Dane]

Whenever I've been to Lang Park and Robina Stadium I've had my enjoyment of the game interrupted by people getting to their seats with a tray of grog in their hand. It happens numerous times a game and makes it hard to keep up with the action as the rows are very narrow, so it takes people ages to get to their seat.

I think you need to chillout and learn to live and let live a little bit more mate.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

I think you need to chillout and learn to live and let live a little bit more mate.

I think you're right.

 

[Menaiduck]

I don't how many times you need to be told but teams aren't going to draw 25k. For the reasons listed.
Broncos don't even make $600k a game in their huge market.

You are the only person that has an issue with moving games to the bush. There should be more of it. Spreads the love around with less games in the big cities and brings in new markets

Your talking to a door mate. He’s not taking anything in. Only focussed on the negative.

 

[Iamback]

Your talking to a door mate. He’s not taking anything in. Only focussed on the negative.

It is what Trolls do

 

[Iamback]

Media have a lot to do with attracting crowds

ANZAC day is always given a positive vibe in the media

But as the media bag almost every aspect of the game they turn off people spending their money

Killing off the 3 game game say experiance hasnt helped

And you now have the new 75 inch TV experiance at home

So many reasons driving fans away

not sure about 3 games but certainly needs something on before a game

 

[Perth Red]

Your talking to a door mate. He’s not taking anything in. Only focussed on the negative.

How can Broncos not bring in $600k a game? 30k fans and the price of their tickets plus corporate full boxes mean revenue must be significantly over $600k a game surely?

Actually just looked and in 2019 Broncos brought in $16mill from game day activity or $1.3million a game. As I said fill the stadiums, earn the money!

https://www.broncos.com.au/siteassets/about-us/pdfs/20210423---2020-annual-report-brisbane-broncos-limited.pdf

 

[Iamback]

How can Broncos not bring in $600k a game? 30k fans and the price of their tickets plus corporate full boxes mean revenue must be significantly over $600k a game surely?

Because they need to rent the stadium. Here is an old article but gives an idea

Stadium rent to cost a bomb for Brisbane

If the Brisbane Bombers do get off the ground as the NRL's 17th team, they are likely to pay the steepest rents in Australia.

www.smh.com.au

This part particularly

If the Brisbane Bombers do get off the ground as the NRL's 17th team, they are likely to pay the steepest rents in Australia.
The Queensland government enjoys a monopoly position with stadiums in Brisbane, owning both Suncorp Stadium and the Gabba.
Sydney has competition between the government controlled SCG and Sydney Football Stadium Trust and the privately managed ANZ Stadium at Homebush, while the big spectator sports in Melbourne can shop between the MCG and Etihad Stadium.
This year's sell out A-League grand final at Suncorp between the Brisbane Roar and Central Coast Mariners cost Football Federation Australia $750,000 in event and transport charges, compared to the $150,000 fee incurred when soccer's big game was played at the SFS.
No two deals at Suncorp are the same, with this month's capacity crowd Super 15 final between the Queensland Reds and the Canterbury Crusaders costing SANZAR $600,000 in rental.

The charges for staging this year's rugby league State of Origin series at the 52,500-seat Suncorp were higher than the costs at the 85,000-seat ANZ Stadium.

 

[Perth Red]

Because they need to rent the stadium. Here is an old article but gives an idea

Stadium rent to cost a bomb for Brisbane

If the Brisbane Bombers do get off the ground as the NRL's 17th team, they are likely to pay the steepest rents in Australia.

www.smh.com.au

This part particularly

If the Brisbane Bombers do get off the ground as the NRL's 17th team, they are likely to pay the steepest rents in Australia.
The Queensland government enjoys a monopoly position with stadiums in Brisbane, owning both Suncorp Stadium and the Gabba.
Sydney has competition between the government controlled SCG and Sydney Football Stadium Trust and the privately managed ANZ Stadium at Homebush, while the big spectator sports in Melbourne can shop between the MCG and Etihad Stadium.
This year's sell out A-League grand final at Suncorp between the Brisbane Roar and Central Coast Mariners cost Football Federation Australia $750,000 in event and transport charges, compared to the $150,000 fee incurred when soccer's big game was played at the SFS.
No two deals at Suncorp are the same, with this month's capacity crowd Super 15 final between the Queensland Reds and the Canterbury Crusaders costing SANZAR $600,000 in rental.

The charges for staging this year's rugby league State of Origin series at the 52,500-seat Suncorp were higher than the costs at the 85,000-seat ANZ Stadium.

Updated my post to show what they bring in from game day $1.33mil a game. Even with high rental ($5.9mill that year in stadium costs) that's still a sht load more profit ($10million) from filling the stadium than a club getting 12-14k is getting at shark park or SFS!

 

[Iamback]

Updated my post to show what they bring in from game day $1.33mil a game. Even with high rental ($5.9mill that year in stadium costs) that's still a sht load more profit ($10million) from filling the stadium than a club getting 12-14k is getting at shark park or SFS!

Sharks on their own stadium
Panthers pay zero rent

so different circumstances