OT: Current Affairs and Politics

[The Silverdale Phantom]

I’ve lost the yes vote at the office because the sky is going to fall down if it gets up.

According to the people I work with, there could be gangs of indigenous folk, walking around waving with their constitutions, taking stuff for free!

Some have threatened to migrate.

 

[Chipmunk]

Not following sorry. A referendum should be pure and simple a conscience vote.

That vote should be made by people based on legitimate and factual information made a available to them.

Based on the ridiculous Land Rights Claims, inaccuracies about High Court Challenges etc etc etc its become a battle of shouting and intentional divisiveness.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/10/06/australia-voice-referendum-indigenous-vote/

I commented to your post on blaming the LNP for the division. My argument is that I think you're being over dramatic blaming the LNP for a ridiculously large amount of the population now voting No (according to the polls).

As a vast number of people haven't been influenced by what the LNP thought on other matters for over two years, I can't see why they would listen to everything that they have said on this particular issue.

 

[Chipmunk]

Because the referendum and Voice proposal wasn't ever (and really still isn't) political.

Up to half of the Lib MPs support the Voice - just not the party leadership (Dutton) so many are scared about the impact on their career if they speak out against their leader's No media noise (thanks Murdoch, Gina, Clive and all the usual suspects) and divisiveness (which is where conservatism does it's best/worst work).

Classic scaremongering for a potential political point on their scoreboard, and to hell with the what's actually good for the future of our Country - which I'm pretty sure would be a Yes vote - because there's still no good reason not to....

I agree I don't think peoples views on this are political. What half of the LNP MP's think I would think it fairly irrelevant.

So why is there a ridiculous amount of people (according to the polls) voting No if there still isn't a good reason not to?

I'm also not disagreeing with you that there isn't a good reason to Vote No, but a very large proportion of the country seems to think there is.

 

[The Silverdale Phantom]

I probably agree with @Gronk about 40% of the time, although at times, I think he’s not critical enough of Labor.

But sometimes he’s not here to argue with or whatever and I get a bit disappointed.

The hard left generally dislike Israel.

Gronky or @Bandwagon will know, but I think at one point after ww2 the Jewish people were offered room to set up a seperate state in Australia.

An interesting proposition.

They’d have to have a port and I guess have important religious artefacts relocated.

And these days, a blessing from traditional indigenous custodians which I think they recognise.

 

[the phantom menace]

I agree I don't think peoples views on this are political. What half of the LNP MP's think I would think it fairly irrelevant.

So why is there a ridiculous amount of people (according to the polls) voting No if there still isn't a good reason not to?

I'm also not disagreeing with you that there isn't a good reason to Vote No, but a very large proportion of the country seems to think there is.

Because a ridiculous amount of people in Australia are either a) a bit dumb, b) easily lead by conservative/divisive media, or c) a little bit racist... or d) any combination of the three?

I'm not defending how the Yes case has promoted it - far from it, I posted early on in here that opting for the "conversation" approach was misguidedly poor. Perhaps the Yes approach assumed the previously held bipartisan support (e.g. Lib MP/Shadow Attorney General Julian Lesser), before Dutton and Murdoch etc decided to play politics with it?

But the Yes case is also not PM Albo's case to spruik - he's simply in charge of making sure the referendum happened, and shouldn't be in charge of making whole the Yes case (as much as Dutton etc try to paint him as being such) stick.

 

[Bandwagon]

Gronky or @Bandwagon will know, but I think at one point after ww2 the Jewish people were offered room to set up a seperate state in Australia.

Kimberley Plan - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[hindy111]

If NO gets up this is going to create a lot of anger I feel amongst the Aboriginal communities. Will really add some fuel to the fire.

 

[Suitman]

I commented to your post on blaming the LNP for the division. My argument is that I think you're being over dramatic blaming the LNP for a ridiculously large amount of the population now voting No (according to the polls).

Well, I do. A vast majority of the media have focused on the negative factors of the Yes vote and sprouted that. The LNP have been largely responsible for this and the media have run with it.
I've neither heard nor read much positivity for the yes vote in the media.
Regardless of how people voted during the last election, so many have fallen for this political take on what should be a bi-partisan referendum but it ain't. There's only one party responsible for this, and that is the LNP.
I heard a stat on the radio this afternoon from a poll of electorates.
84% of Bob Katter's electorate in QLD is voting no.
That says it all and that stat is disgusting.
Australians generally are, ignorant and lazy. Not all, but many.
I have 3 brothers. One will unequivocally vote Yes. Another is a complete right wing nutcase and was always going to vote no, regardless.
The third brother rang me a week ago not understanding The Voice and asked my opinion. I gave it but it was a waste of time. His wife is seriously racist and has convinced him to vote no.
I also have a sister whose husband is horribly racist (amongst other things) so she has become that way too. They live in The Shire. They'll also be voting No. Enough said.
So that is 3 out of 5 of us voting No. Pretty sure that's how it will turn out. 60 - 40 in favour of No, which is really sad.

What has divided this country is not the Referendum itself but the party-political opposition to it for political gain.
Dutton and a large proportion of the media need to take responsibility for this and the divisiveness it has caused.

My view.

 

[Chipmunk]

If NO gets up this is going to create a lot of anger I feel amongst the Aboriginal communities. Will really add some fuel to the fire.

They're less than 4% of the population. It's pretty clear most of the other 96% couldn't give a f**k.

 

[Suitman]

They're less than 4% of the population. It's pretty clear most of the other 96% couldn't give a f**k.

And there is the ignorance I was talking about.
Did you really mean that?

 

[Chipmunk]

And there is the ignorance I was talking about.
Did you really mean that?

The polls are saying 60% are saying No, I'd say all of those don't care if this creates anger amongst the Indigenous community. Wouldn't you agree?

 

[Suitman]

The polls are saying 60% are saying No, I'd say all of those don't care if this creates anger amongst the Indigenous community. Wouldn't you agree?

No, I wouldn't.

 

[Chipmunk]

Well, I do. A vast majority of the media have focused on the negative factors of the Yes vote and sprouted that. The LNP have been largely responsible for this and the media have run with it.
I've neither heard nor read much positivity for the yes vote in the media.
Regardless of how people voted during the last election, so many have fallen for this political take on what should be a bi-partisan referendum but it ain't. There's only one party responsible for this, and that is the LNP.
I heard a stat on the radio this afternoon from a poll of electorates.
84% of Bob Katter's electorate in QLD is voting no.
That says it all and that stat is disgusting.
Australians generally are, ignorant and lazy. Not all, but many.
I have 3 brothers. One will unequivocally vote Yes. Another is a complete right wing nutcase and was always going to vote no, regardless.
The third brother rang me a week ago not understanding The Voice and asked my opinion. I gave it but it was a waste of time. His wife is seriously racist and has convinced him to vote no.
I also have a sister whose husband is horribly racist (amongst other things) so she has become that way too. They live in The Shire. They'll also be voting No. Enough said.
So that is 3 out of 5 of us voting No. Pretty sure that's how it will turn out. 60 - 40 in favour of No, which is really sad.

What has divided this country is not the Referendum itself but the party-political opposition to it for political gain.
Dutton and a large proportion of the media need to take responsibility for this and the divisiveness it has caused.

My view.

As they say, no news is good news, so perhaps why the limited positive of the Yes side aren't getting traction.

These family members you talk about voting No, I'm assuming would've voted LNP previously?

There has to be a significant amount of people that preferenced Labor ahead of LNP at the last election, that are now voting No. I'm curious to know why these people now have these views.

 

[Chipmunk]

No, I wouldn't.

They either don't care, or don't think the vote of No will make them angry. Eather way, I don't think those 60% give a f**k how it will make those Indigenous communities feel, which was my response to @hindy111 .

 

[the phantom menace]

There has to be a significant amount of people that preferenced Labor ahead of LNP at the last election, that are now voting No. I'm curious to know why these people now have these views.

As stated earlier, because voting in a government election is different to voting on a referendum question. I think you even acknowledged that a referendum it itself is not party political - so why do you try and map party politics voting percentages onto the polling figures?

 

[Suitman]

As they say, no news is good news, so perhaps why the limited positive of the Yes side aren't getting traction.

These family members you talk about voting No, I'm assuming would've voted LNP previously?

There has to be a significant amount of people that preferenced Labor ahead of LNP at the last election, that are now voting No. I'm curious to know why these people now have these views.

1 out of us 5 would have voted Lib in the past, and he is supremely racist. 2 of the others are just plain racist and actually don't have much of a clue about "The Voice".
Some of the "discussions" we have had in the past just sadden me.

 

[Suitman]

They either don't care, or don't think the vote of No will make them angry. Eather way, I don't think those 60% give a f**k how it will make those Indigenous communities feel, which was my response to @hindy111 .

Which reinforces my point that a large proportion of Australian's don't think about this, don't care and also don't think of the benefit's this referendum could actually do to bring the country together. Yet, a Yes vote is actually being sold as devisive. It is far from it.

 

[Chipmunk]

As stated earlier, because voting in a government election is different to voting on a referendum question. I think you even acknowledged that a referendum it itself is not party political - so why do you try and map party politics voting percentages onto the polling figures?

Because honestly I cannot comprehend how someone would have the mentality to vote Labor or Green (and other left leaning, but preference Labor) at the last election, and then less than 18 months later even remotely consider voting No on this issue. It makes no ideological sense to me. Like seriously, WTF goes through these peoples minds when they're considering who to vote for that they can do this?

I'm lost with what made these No voters now preference Labor ahead of LNP in the first place.

It cant just primarily previously be just a hatred of ScoMo, or a super love affair with McGowan in WA.

Are there that many super lefties/Greens who don't think it goes far enough so vote No? Surely not.

 

[The Silverdale Phantom]

Which reinforces my point that a large proportion of Australian's don't think about this, don't care and also don't think of the benefit's this referendum could actually do to bring the country together. Yet, a Yes vote is actually being sold as devisive. It is far from it.

I think a no vote is going to going to be used to justify O

 

[Chipmunk]

1 out of us 5 would have voted Lib in the past, and he is supremely racist. 2 of the others are just plain racist and actually don't have much of a clue about "The Voice".
Some of the "discussions" we have had in the past just sadden me.

Which reinforces my point that a large proportion of Australian's don't think about this, don't care and also don't think of the benefit's this referendum could actually do to bring the country together. Yet, a Yes vote is actually being sold as devisive. It is far from it.

I suspect the vast majority of the country isn't too focussed on the Voice. It's interesting what the media focuses on most of the time.

I don't think a Yes will bring the country together, particularly if 60% appear to easily be voting No.