Rd13 v Parra

[betcats]

Pretty much this. I'm no Nostradamus but I called it as soon as we gave away the first penalty. The bit I got wrong was penalty, restart, restart, try. Instead it was penalty, penalty, restart try. I'm pretty confident I wasn't the only one that posts here that thought exactly the same thing before it unfolded.

The thing that pisses me off is in most cases there is no need for the hold down, off side or whatever. When the Roosters used to hand out penalties like lollies a few years ago it was tactical. With us at the moment is just retread boneheaded ill discipline. It's also usually the same culprits every time., and early in the game where fatigue isn't an excuse.

Yep we are literally doing the same negative plays to start every game every week that i can remember. Its not just one play either, its the same sequence on repeat.

 

[betcats]

You mean the Storm who established that 20 years of "success" (ie, one fewer premierships than weve managed this decade) by enacing the largest, most brazen instance of systemic cheating in the history of Australian sport? Or the Storm that has somehow managed to keep their entire all star spine intact across this decade, lost no one from their premiership favorite squad last year while managing to add one of the most hyped props in the game on big money? And all this while remaining firmly in our shadow as the bridesmaids of this decade?

Spare me. Bellamy is no hack but the idea his career doesn't have enormous asterisks next to it is laughable.

Bit of a strectch to say he is coaching well now becuase of the salary cap cheating.

 

[age.s]

They win the games they should though, even when they play badly they usually still get a result more often than not. I'll take our 4 in a row over their Bellamy era any day, but it's still hard to take what we have dished up this year.

Sort of. They were well beaten by a Dragons team who didn't buckle, ditto the Dolphins a few weeks back. On paper they should be dispatching these teams comfortably.

 

[age.s]

Bit of a strectch to say he is coaching well now becuase of the salary cap cheating.

I'm saying hes not coaching anywhere near as well now as some make out and the first half of his career will forever be tainted.

 

[betcats]

I'm saying hes not coaching anywhere near as well now as some make out and the first half of his career will forever be tainted.

Are his teams not consistently at the top? They bookend our premiership run for a reason mate, because they are always thereabouts

 

[Oldpanther86]

You mean the Storm who established that 20 years of "success" (ie, one fewer premierships than weve managed this decade) by enacing the largest, most brazen instance of systemic cheating in the history of Australian sport? Or the Storm that has somehow managed to keep their entire all star spine intact across this decade, lost no one from their premiership favorite squad last year while managing to add one of the most hyped props in the game on big money? And all this while remaining firmly in our shadow as the bridesmaids of this decade?

Spare me. Bellamy is no hack but the idea his career doesn't have enormous asterisks next to it is laughable.

Of course it does but he does have a way of keeping the team around the top 4 consistently regardless of circumstances. I'm just pointing out the irony.

 

[age.s]

Are his teams not consistently at the top? They bookend our premiership run for a reason mate, because they are always thereabouts

Of course they're near the top. They have a star studded roster, including an all rep quality spine that's played together for the past 5 years (paps injuries aside).

Im not saying hes a hack. Im saying the narrative that him keeping the club competetive over two decades isn't that big an achievement, given hes had star studded rosters that half the time were acquired illegally. He's turned having consistently great rosters into a few premierships and consaitent finals appearances. Ivan turned his great roster into 4 premierships.

 

[betcats]

Of course they're near the top. They have a star studded roster, including an all rep quality spine that's played together for the past 5 years (paps injuries aside).

Im not saying hes a hack. Im saying the narrative that him keeping the club competetive over two decades isn't that big an achievement, given hes had star studded rosters that half the time were acquired illegally. He's turned having consistently great rosters into a few premierships and consaitent finals appearances. Ivan turned his great roster into 4 premierships.

Ivans got a roster most coaches would lose an arm to have and he’s what, 14th?

When has Bellamy ever in all those years been last at the halfway mark of the season with a great roster?

besides when they lost points, which was 15 years ago mate.

 

[John Hamblin]

Exactly.

@Aliceinwonderland im judging them based on their performance this year, thats all we can do every year. Last four years is done, this year we suck.

I don't !!

 

[betcats]

Also just to be clear I wouldn’t swap our 5 years for the storms 20. Not even close

but let’s be real here, with the context of how bad we are this year, Ivans last 4 years look a lot more like him just being blessed by a very special group of players than Bellamy’s last 25 years do.

 

[soc123_au]

You mean the Storm who established that 20 years of "success" (ie, one fewer premierships than weve managed this decade) by enacing the largest, most brazen instance of systemic cheating in the history of Australian sport? Or the Storm that has somehow managed to keep their entire all star spine intact across this decade, lost no one from their premiership favorite squad last year while managing to add one of the most hyped props in the game on big money? And all this while remaining firmly in our shadow as the bridesmaids of this decade?

Spare me. Bellamy is no hack but the idea his career doesn't have enormous asterisks next to it is laughable.

I'm in a huge minority here, but the cap thing is way overblown. Storm rarely recruit big names, lose plenty and still make the top 4 a fight for 3 spots every year. They are very good at keeping the right players, but 90% of their guns over the past 20 odd years were all overlooked by various NRL clubs or kicked to the curb. Stefano is the biggest "name" I can recall, and he isn't in the top 10 in his position across the NRL.

Bellamy is the GOAT for extracting whatever talent is in a player. It's not like they suddenly become genuine stars, but he knows what someone is good at, simplifies their role to make the most of and then puts all the pieces of the puzzle together into a pretty elite machine. The fact players leave to turn back to plod speaks for itself on what he has done there.

Compare that to other convicted cap cheats, Parra, Sharks, Early 2000's Dogs etc (f**kin" lol) and just having two filing cabinets isn't a recipe for the Storm do. More spoons than the 2 Premierships in that lot and a whole lot of f**k all else.

Then look at the Broncos, never convicted but players love playing for unders there and they have won f**k all this century.

Edit, Coates looked pretty handy before moving to Melbourne, but don't recall at what point Melbourne signed him. Could have been like us when we signed Api the first time, had a game or two then shone when he played the back end of a season after being signed.

 

[Chins]

I'm in a huge minority here, but the cap thing is way overblown. Storm rarely recruit big names, lose plenty and still make the top 4 a fight for 3 spots every year. They are very good at keeping the right players, but 90% of their guns over the past 20 odd years were all overlooked by various NRL clubs or kicked to the curb. Stefano is the biggest "name" I can recall, and he isn't in the top 10 in his position across the NRL.

Bellamy is the GOAT for extracting whatever talent is in a player. It's not like they suddenly become genuine stars, but he knows what someone is good at, simplifies their role to make the most of and then puts all the pieces of the puzzle together into a pretty elite machine. The fact players leave to turn back to plod speaks for itself on what he has done there.

Compare that to other convicted cap cheats, Parra, Sharks, Early 2000's Dogs etc (f**kin" lol) and just having two filing cabinets isn't a recipe for the Storm do. More spoons than the 2 Premierships in that lot and a whole lot of f**k all else.

Then look at the Broncos, never convicted but players love playing for unders there and they have won f**k all this century.

You soft merkin. f**k you and f**k the Melbourne Storm

 

[soc123_au]

You soft merkin. f**k you and f**k the Melbourne Storm

Ha ha, never said I liked 'em. Tell me where I'm wrong with the facts though.

 

[Oldpanther86]

Of course they're near the top. They have a star studded roster, including an all rep quality spine that's played together for the past 5 years (paps injuries aside).

Im not saying hes a hack. Im saying the narrative that him keeping the club competetive over two decades isn't that big an achievement, given hes had star studded rosters that half the time were acquired illegally. He's turned having consistently great rosters into a few premierships and consaitent finals appearances. Ivan turned his great roster into 4 premierships.

I wouldn't swap coaches but we've got a team full of rep players and are 14th

 

[age.s]

Ivans got a roster most coaches would lose an arm to have and he’s what, 14th?

When has Bellamy ever in all those years been last at the halfway mark of the season with a great roster?

besides when they lost points, which was 15 years ago mate.

The only reason those players are rated is because Ivan achieved what those coaches wouldnt dare even fantasise about. That argument goes both ways. No one rated them in 2019.

As for this year, there are probably things Ivan could have done better, but overall I'd say the biggest issue is gaps in the team that are a direct result of the salary cap taking its toll on us. The roster has glaring holes in it that we would need luck to cover up. In particular, lack of backup for Nath and lack of depth in the middle, especially if Smith and Henry didn't kick on which they haven't. Throw in rule changes, Casey not kicking on as expected, injuries to our key backline players and frankly, the core of the team being older and less physically dominant/capable and you have an underwhelming start to the year. Hard to say how much of that is on Ivan, but it'd be reasonable to say some of it is at least. The idea that it invalidates one of the greatest achievements in modern sport when the season isn't even finished yet is what I have issue with.

The Bellamy glazing is tiring though. The leader of his so called dynasty shouldn't even have been his player for longer than a few years. Since then, his greatest achievement has been giving the greatest team of all time to motivation to be what they eventually became. Beating that merkin in the gf last year just cemented it. *****

 

[age.s]

You soft merkin. f**k you and f**k the Melbourne Storm

Now this is my kind of chins energy.

 

[age.s]

I'm in a huge minority here, but the cap thing is way overblown. Storm rarely recruit big names, lose plenty and still make the top 4 a fight for 3 spots every year. They are very good at keeping the right players, but 90% of their guns over the past 20 odd years were all overlooked by various NRL clubs or kicked to the curb. Stefano is the biggest "name" I can recall, and he isn't in the top 10 in his position across the NRL.

Bellamy is the GOAT for extracting whatever talent is in a player. It's not like they suddenly become genuine stars, but he knows what someone is good at, simplifies their role to make the most of and then puts all the pieces of the puzzle together into a pretty elite machine. The fact players leave to turn back to plod speaks for itself on what he has done there.

Compare that to other convicted cap cheats, Parra, Sharks, Early 2000's Dogs etc (f**kin" lol) and just having two filing cabinets isn't a recipe for the Storm do. More spoons than the 2 Premierships in that lot and a whole lot of f**k all else.

Then look at the Broncos, never convicted but players love playing for unders there and they have won f**k all this century.

Edit, Coates looked pretty handy before moving to Melbourne, but don't recall at what point Melbourne signed him. Could have been like us when we signed Api the first time, had a game or two then shone when he played the back end of a season after being signed.

Cam Smith would have been a Titan if he wasn't slipped a brown paper bag. Sliding doors moment for the two organisations if ever there was one. Instead Bellamy rode the woe is me narrative with him and turned him into a one club player. But it wouldnt have happened if they didn't systematically cheat. Doesn't invalidate his entire body of work, just half of it.

Also, Stefano would be a top 3 prop if a coach could get the best out of him. Thats on Bellamy as much of any of our issues this year are on Ivan.

 

[age.s]

Also just to be clear I wouldn’t swap our 5 years for the storms 20. Not even close

but let’s be real here, with the context of how bad we are this year, Ivans last 4 years look a lot more like him just being blessed by a very special group of players than Bellamy’s last 25 years do.

So the start of this year is on Ivan, but the unbelievable achievements leading up to it were on the players?

 

[betcats]

So the start of this year is on Ivan, but the unbelievable achievements leading up to it were on the players?

No we are talking about coaches benefiting by good rosters.

 

[betcats]

The only reason those players are rated is because Ivan achieved what those coaches wouldnt dare even fantasise about. That argument goes both ways. No one rated them in 2019.

As for this year, there are probably things Ivan could have done better, but overall I'd say the biggest issue is gaps in the team that are a direct result of the salary cap taking its toll on us. The roster has glaring holes in it that we would need luck to cover up. In particular, lack of backup for Nath and lack of depth in the middle, especially if Smith and Henry didn't kick on which they haven't. Throw in rule changes, Casey not kicking on as expected, injuries to our key backline players and frankly, the core of the team being older and less physically dominant/capable and you have an underwhelming start to the year. Hard to say how much of that is on Ivan, but it'd be reasonable to say some of it is at least. The idea that it invalidates one of the greatest achievements in modern sport when the season isn't even finished yet is what I have issue with.

The Bellamy glazing is tiring though. The leader of his so called dynasty shouldn't even have been his player for longer than a few years. Since then, his greatest achievement has been giving the greatest team of all time to motivation to be what they eventually became. Beating that merkin in the gf last year just cemented it. *****

Every coach is dealing with the rule changes.

Still waiting for you to tell me when Bellamy had a good roster coming last deep into season.

Do you think if Bellamy was coaching us now we’d be in 14th? Because I really don’t think we would.