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Rumoured Targets 3

Mr_Knightside

Mr_Knightside

Bench
Messages
2,793
League guru said:
What I do know is that Newcastle are a basket case who will attract no one unless they pay twice their market value. I can't believe that they have no space in the salary cap when they have no players of any note. Besides the freight payed to Ponga where does the money go?
"Ruck Manipulation" is the last of your worries, when your inadequate management keeps paying overs for reserve graders with little talent.
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Wowzers. Some of the contradictions in this post are mind boggling.

So apparently we don’t have any players of note on our roster yet the media has been banging on about Dylan Brown and Kalyn Ponga all year. I guess they’re not players of note though huh? And yeah we’ve sunk a fair chunk of our cap into them.

Also who says we don’t have cap space? It’s pretty obvious that we’re in the player market and looking to sign people, not to mention a few players that we’ve signed already.

You then mention that we sign a lot of reserve graders with little talent. Mate the conversation has been about getting a talented hooker who can manipulate the ruck much better than anyone we’ve got on the books so far.

Given you’re having trouble keeping up with it all, let me spell it out… Talented players tend to have a better skill set and a better eye for the game than those with less talent. So I am firmly in favour of signing a talented booker who has a skill set that includes ruck manipulation.

But hey you’re the self-professed Rugby League Guru so you would obviously know all that already right?
 
L

League guru

Juniors
Messages
477
Mr_Knightside said:
Wowzers. Some of the contradictions in this post are mind boggling.

So apparently we don’t have any players of note on our roster yet the media has been banging on about Dylan Brown and Kalyn Ponga all year. I guess they’re not players of note though huh? And yeah we’ve sunk a fair chunk of our cap into them.

Also who says we don’t have cap space? It’s pretty obvious that we’re in the player market and looking to sign people, not to mention a few players that we’ve signed already.

You then mention that we sign a lot of reserve graders with little talent. Mate the conversation has been about getting a talented hooker who can manipulate the ruck much better than anyone we’ve got on the books so far.

Given you’re having trouble keeping up with it all, let me spell it out… Talented players tend to have a better skill set and a better eye for the game than those with less talent. So I am firmly in favour of signing a talented booker who has a skill set that includes ruck manipulation.

But hey you’re the self-professed Rugby League Guru so you would obviously know all that already right?
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The reason the media is banging on about Dylan Brown, is the fact that you clowns gave him so much money over a 10 year period. They can't get over the sheer stupidity of the deal. It mirrors the fortune you pay Ponga for little result.
 
Yosh

Yosh

Coach
Messages
12,768
Good news with signings so far. Looks like we building a pretty solid squad. Hopefully we sign a coach who can get the best out of them.
 
Mr_Knightside

Mr_Knightside

Bench
Messages
2,793
League guru said:
The reason the media is banging on about Dylan Brown, is the fact that you clowns gave him so much money over a 10 year period. They can't get over the sheer stupidity of the deal. It mirrors the fortune you pay Ponga for little result.
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I don’t love the overall value and length of the contract but he’s a quality player and unfortunately unless you’re Roosters/Brisbane/Storm/Penrith you tend to have to pay overs to get them.
 
perverse

perverse

Referee
Messages
27,533
HarVeeGee said:
He was the starting hooker in a side that was three missed shots at goal away from finishing 3rd...

Look I'm not saying that if Harry Grant called us and told us of his burning desire to play for the Knights, we should say no. I'm just looking at the players we've got and thinking about what sets us up best. If you think Phoenix being at 9 presented more issues for the attack than Fletcher Sharpe and Kalyn Ponga did trying to alternate as the key ball players on the first layer of our shape work, I honestly wonder if we watched the same games this year.

I, personally, would love to see if we could just get an *okay* attack out of the competent 80 minute hooker + guy we've just signed who's proven himself capable at 7 + the dynamic ball running 6 + the dynamic fullback we have on the books, before we move on to the Extra Hard Mode of team construction of having *four spine players trying to learn how to play new positions on the fly*.
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I think you're reading more into what I said than what I said. He's just a very unskilled player, and it might be the case that you can carry that in a spine of otherwise high performing players that are in good form - as we did for like 10 whole weeks in 2023. Probably prefer not to though.

What I can say with some degree of certainty - teams like the Panthers, the Roosters and Melbourne are not going to come knocking on our door to poach Phoenix Crossland. If he switched clubs, it's not a back page headline... it's the third or 4th paragraph of a league article covering a range of topics for the week. He is not a difference maker in a good team. What Phoenix brings mostly to us is just an expectation of every player in good systems as the default. He's maybe the kind of player that a Bellamy would pick up for a pie and coke deal and find a use for him if we were to discard him - because he does have the work ethic and as I said, that can carry you pretty far in Rugby League.

But yeah I mean as with any effort player, there's moments where I've wanted to kiss him, but unfortunately many more where I just want to flush that mop head of his in the toilet and give him a wedgie.

At the end of the day, I understand why O'Sullivan wants to replace him at hooker. He's just not very good. It's something that myself and our recruitment manager agree on. I agree with Yosh that if Phoenix needs to have a spot in the team at all, we're probably not in that great a position until he's on the bench. Let's see if he can secure the lock position, because he hasn't been good enough to secure any others. Willing to give him a crack, but I don't think he has the running or strength games to be anything but a (poor) ball distributor and tacklebot at lock either.
 
macavity

macavity

Referee
Messages
21,302
Peen struggles to pass from the ground, he takes a step most rucks which cramps the outside men and telegraphs which way the ball is going. Hard to "control the ruck" doing that.
 
H

HarVeeGee

Juniors
Messages
858
perverse said:
I think you're reading more into what I said than what I said. He's just a very unskilled player, and it might be the case that you can carry that in a spine of otherwise high performing players that are in good form - as we did for like 10 whole weeks in 2023. Probably prefer not to though.

What I can say with some degree of certainty - teams like the Panthers, the Roosters and Melbourne are not going to come knocking on our door to poach Phoenix Crossland. If he switched clubs, it's not a back page headline... it's the third or 4th paragraph of a league article covering a range of topics for the week. He is not a difference maker in a good team. What Phoenix brings mostly to us is just an expectation of every player in good systems as the default. He's maybe the kind of player that a Bellamy would pick up for a pie and coke deal and find a use for him if we were to discard him - because he does have the work ethic and as I said, that can carry you pretty far in Rugby League.

But yeah I mean as with any effort player, there's moments where I've wanted to kiss him, but unfortunately many more where I just want to flush that mop head of his in the toilet and give him a wedgie.

At the end of the day, I understand why O'Sullivan wants to replace him at hooker. He's just not very good. It's something that myself and our recruitment manager agree on. I agree with Yosh that if Phoenix needs to have a spot in the team at all, we're probably not in that great a position until he's on the bench. Let's see if he can secure the lock position, because he hasn't been good enough to secure any others. Willing to give him a crack, but I don't think he has the running or strength games to be anything but a (poor) ball distributor and tacklebot at lock either.
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O’Sullivan also gave him an extension on pretty good money to the end of 2028, with an understanding he’d continue to be the starting hooker for a while yet. Not a great advertisement for Peter’s footy brain if he’s changed his mind on that a couple months later.

I think you’re reading too much into what I’m saying too. My whole issue here is that I don’t think 9 is high on the list of things to address. Phoenix goes okay and we’d already started on a Canberra style plan at that position: recruit an Aussie schoolboys and/or u’19’s Origin rep, and develop them. Bring them into grade when they’re ready. I am on board with Matt Arthur coming into the team and taking that spot when the time is right, that’s smart long-term planning. It’s a good plan and bringing in Graham to compete with him on a development deal is also something Canberra would do. And it’s a good plan for cap reasons when you’re trying to balance things around two of the biggest deals in the game.

My issue is with us apparently dropping $500K on a different new starting 9, after POS has in interviews ripped into previous recruitment staff for overspending on multiple 9’s.

My issue is with us making this hooker signing when we spent $1.3 million on a five-eighth based on a plan to put #7 on his back but basically have Kalyn play halfback for him.

My issue is that moving Phoenix to 13 has more to do with trying to make that “Kalynball” plan work rather than evaluating whether the plan was actually good to begin with.

If you gave me a crystal ball and it told me the spine in 2027-28 was 9 Matt Arthur 7 Sandon Smith 6 Dylan Brown 1 either of Kalyn Ponga or Fletcher Sharpe, with Crossland 14, I would be very happy to hear that and have a bit of optimism about what the future holds.
 
J

jonno_knights

Juniors
Messages
2,351
League guru said:
The reason the media is banging on about Dylan Brown, is the fact that you clowns gave him so much money over a 10 year period. They can't get over the sheer stupidity of the deal. It mirrors the fortune you pay Ponga for little result.
Click to expand...

The thing most people seem to be missing with the 10 year deal is;

In 2005 the salary cap was 3.36million for 25 players.

In 2015 the salary cap was 6.55million for 25 players

In 2025 the salary cap is 11.88million for 30 players.

So weve seen the salary cap almost double every 10 years as the game grows. While we dont know exactly how the contract is structured year to year, it has been reported its max'd out at 1.4mill, so that suggests the yearly salary would have to be rather constant.

I believe the salary cap is locked in for 26/27, so the team will have to weather the storm those years (probably why theyve signed so many young players to develop), but by the time the new TV deal rolls around, 1.3mill/season will potentially be the new $1-1.1m, assuming a similar increase as last time.

With the new teams being added, the international game growing, the success of vegas and potential streaming deals, you could safely bet theres even more going for the game now compared to 2020 when the last deal was signed.

So all things going well, the first 2 years of the deal are an overpay, the next 5 will be good value asusming an increased salary cap, then the final 3 will be great value providing his body holds up until 35. And that's not even factoring in any potential improvement to his game.
 
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