4N: Is the demolition of PNG and the like good for the game?

[AuckMel]

A Maori and Aboriginal side? Nice. I think the Indigenous All-Stars concept that kicked off in 2010 was brilliant, that may well be the start of bigger and better things for that side. Who knows.

Tonga and Samoa.

 

[The 18th Man]

Tonga and Samoa.

The continued development of both countries is a must and a given. I think we start by having those eligble declare their allegiance to their country forgoing the chance to represent either NZ or Australia. For both Nation's to continue to improve, this is a must.

The Polynesian influence is prevelant in our game today and look no further than the Toyota Cup boys. Once they made grade their I'd have them declar their and then the allegiance to their country knowing that they will only from that point on represent their Nation forgoing any Origin or Test opportunity for another Nation.

 

[Hollywood Jesus]

Some people just don't understand, do they?

Italy has been put forth as a perfect example - the reason for a 4th nation doesn't revolve around them having a chance of winning the tournament. It is to expose the next level down to more regular matches against the Top 3 which will have strong benefits over time.

France did very well last year. It was a massive improvement on the 08 WC. Another SL team will see them continue to improve.

PNG has not done as well for reasons already pointed out in this thread. If they had the same team that played in 08 they would have done better.

Wales will get their shot next year. If they can beat France, who did well last year, then they should put up a decent show.

We shouldn't be dropping back to 3 nations. We should be expanding to 5 next year and having both a Pac and a Euro team involved. If Australia drop out of any series in 2012, as has been mooted elsewhere, then the 2012 series should be England, France, Wales, NZ and a Pac qualifier (chosen from a Pac Cup next year).

Instant success is never going to happen. The point of expanding to a Four Nations concept is to see results in the 2013 WC and WCs after that.

This will happen unless we give in to small-minded, short-sighted fools who think international football is all about whether a team can beat Australia or not.

I find International RL more interesting than most NRL matches.

So do I. It's a no contest.

The trouble with international footy is Australia. The NRL has too much say in something it should have nothing to do with.

Absolutely. We need a truly independent international body that focuses on across the board development and is not beholden to the partisan interests of the Big 3.

 

[Quidgybo]

Back in the 50's and 60's the French showed some promise. But since then it has been all down. They will never be a force in world rugby league.

France; a first world country bigger than Britain with the economic infrastructure and Rugby League pedigree to support professional clubs at the professional level is the most likely candidate to emerge as a fourth power.

Far from your assessment, if we as a game were truly serious about making it happen - by guaranteeing the position of two to three professional clubs in the SL, by reforming the import rules of the SL to ensure that the comp was dominated by local players with only genuine super star imports in their prime, by providing the France national side a minimum of six matches per year thru permanent entry into the Four Nations and mid year competition against England, and by providing a scholarship program for promising young English and French stars to play in the NRL - If we did these things, I have little doubt that an England vs France Four Nations final would be a genuine possibility within twenty years, perhaps even a probability.

If we were serious about making it happen.

But if the attitude you've expressed above is echoed in the corridors of power in Australia and England then you're right, it never will.

Leigh.

 

[thehattrickrabbit]

Leave it at Tri-Nations. and maybe expand the number of teams to play in the world cup once every 4 years.

 

[Scubby]

October 2007 - NZ 0 Aus 58

November 2008 - NZ win World Cup

If some on this board would have had their way then the WC would have been cancelled and the trophy automatically awarded to Australia.

PNG haven't got many decent class players. Take out Gene, Wilshere, Peters, Costigan, Mead, Chan, Exton and Moore out of the WC squad (2008) and it has got to hurt. They will be back firing when they sort the stupid politics out.

 

[RL1908]

They don't have a say in who they play. It's the rugby league administrators who are putting these tournaments together who need to have a good look at themselves.

State of Origin has become the biggest meal ticket for rugby league in Australia, both commercially and as the pinnacle of on-field achievement.

The sooner the rugby league administrators embrace this, the better off the game will be.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/spo...-1225945576289

Not entirely sure what Cannon's final point is. It could be the typical Dirty Harry "Man's got to know his limitations" message i.e. get back in your NSW/QLD box, the international game belongs to RU, soccer, cricket & not you lot.

I think though he seems to be suggesting RL shouldn't hope it gets what it wishes for (ie a successful international tier), because that will damage Origin's status and $ value.

Huh? What harm can a post Grand Final international series, possibly have on Origin? The possibility of a Kangaroos jersey is still, at least partly, what puts the fire and meaning into Origin in the first place.

Even at the current standard of the 4N, it reinforces RL's advantage in Aust over all other codes/sports - that it alone has 3 elite professional tiers via NRL club, Origin and Kangaroos.

There is no evidence that the standard of the 4N's is damaging the RL brand, so why not play the 4N?

From where I sit, I now see two competitive teams (Aust & NZ) where once there was one, and England did provide good competition at home last year. PNG getting flogged is more likely not a sign of PNG's decline, but of the Kiwis rise as a true rival to the Kangaroos.

The alternative is to play nothing after the Grand Final. Then what? See the Wallabies-NZ Test last night trigger news articles today bemoaning RL's lost international game.

 

[The 18th Man]

Some people just don't understand, do they?

Italy has been put forth as a perfect example - the reason for a 4th nation doesn't revolve around them having a chance of winning the tournament. It is to expose the next level down to more regular matches against the Top 3 which will have strong benefits over time.

France did very well last year. It was a massive improvement on the 08 WC. Another SL team will see them continue to improve.

PNG has not done as well for reasons already pointed out in this thread. If they had the same team that played in 08 they would have done better.

Wales will get their shot next year. If they can beat France, who did well last year, then they should put up a decent show.

We shouldn't be dropping back to 3 nations. We should be expanding to 5 next year and having both a Pac and a Euro team involved. If Australia drop out of any series in 2012, as has been mooted elsewhere, then the 2012 series should be England, France, Wales, NZ and a Pac qualifier (chosen from a Pac Cup next year).

Instant success is never going to happen. The point of expanding to a Four Nations concept is to see results in the 2013 WC and WCs after that.

This will happen unless we give in to small-minded, short-sighted fools who think international football is all about whether a team can beat Australia or not.

France; a first world country bigger than Britain with the economic infrastructure and Rugby League pedigree to support professional clubs at the professional level is the most likely candidate to emerge as a fourth power.

Far from your assessment, if we as a game were truly serious about making it happen - by guaranteeing the position of two to three professional clubs in the SL, by reforming the import rules of the SL to ensure that the comp was dominated by local players with only genuine super star imports in their prime, by providing the France national side a minimum of six matches per year thru permanent entry into the Four Nations and mid year competition against England, and by providing a scholarship program for promising young English and French stars to play in the NRL - If we did these things, I have little doubt that an England vs France Four Nations final would be a genuine possibility within twenty years, perhaps even a probability.

If we were serious about making it happen.

But if the attitude you've expressed above is echoed in the corridors of power in Australia and England then you're right, it never will.

Leigh.

Excellent posts! It's awesome to have it confirmed we have bright, passionate rugby league fans, enthusiasts who only want the best for our gameon all levels. Together we will pioneer change and the fruits of our labor will be seen over the coming years.

Just on France, again, in my opinion, THE sleeping giants of rugby league. The giant has been stirred and it's only a matter of when, not if, they come back to being a force in the game of rugby league.

 

[The 18th Man]

Not entirely sure what Cannon's final point is. It could be the typical Dirty Harry "Man's got to know his limitations" message i.e. get back in your NSW/QLD box, the international game belongs to RU, soccer, cricket & not you lot.

I think though he seems to be suggesting RL shouldn't hope it gets what it wishes for (ie a successful international tier), because that will damage Origin's status and $ value.

Huh? What harm can a post Grand Final international series, possibly have on Origin? The possibility of a Kangaroos jersey is still, at least partly, what puts the fire and meaning into Origin in the first place.

Even at the current standard of the 4N, it reinforces RL's advantage in Aust over all other codes/sports - that it alone has 3 elite professional tiers via NRL club, Origin and Kangaroos.

There is no evidence that the standard of the 4N's is damaging the RL brand, so why not play the 4N?

From where I sit, I now see two competitive teams (Aust & NZ) where once there was one, and England did provide good competition at home last year. PNG getting flogged is more likely not a sign of PNG's decline, but of the Kiwis rise as a true rival to the Kangaroos.

The alternative is to play nothing after the Grand Final. Then what? See the Wallabies-NZ Test last night trigger news articles today bemoaning RL's lost international game.

I am not sure Cannon knew what his point was only the agenda he had: lay the boot in the "other" code.

Nice post RL1908, absolutely love your site. I have been a long time lurker there for years.

 

[RL1908]

I am not sure Cannon knew what his point was only the agenda he had: lay the boot in the "other" code.

Nice post RL1908, absolutely love your site. I have been a long time lurker there for years.

Cheers mate. Let's see what the Poms do tonight. Jag a win and then the Aussies are facing a Kiwis team at Eden Park to make the Final. An NZ-Eng Final is unlikely, but it isn't as impossible as Cannon's piece would have us all believe.

 

[mikail-eagle]

Word on the streets of Port Moresby is that the PNG selectors did picked the all of the players that played in the PC Cup.

But the list was rejected and amended by the new PNGRFL Chairman meaning only 5 players from that team survived for the 4 Nations.

The fans in PNG are not blaming the players however Gene and the chairman will have alot of explaining to do.

 

[LordLeague]

Gotta Laugh,

Last years runner up, England, lose to the World Champs 24-10 and all of a sudden the tournament should be scrapped and international RL is dead.

WTF?

Lord League

 

[chunk]

To play against Australia, NZ and the Poms is the best way for them to get some money, isn't it?

 

[adamkungl]

f**k the wankers in the media. You can't just magically conjure up a competitive international scene, you have to work at it. I really hope the RLIF aren't planning to ditch the 4N just because of dickhead Union fans in the media.

 

[applesauce]

As long as players like Uate, Vidot, McGuire are forced to chose NSW/QLD rather than Tonga/Samoa, International RL will suffer.

Not entirely sure what Cannon's final point is. It could be the typical Dirty Harry "Man's got to know his limitations" message i.e. get back in your NSW/QLD box, the international game belongs to RU, soccer, cricket & not you lot.

I think though he seems to be suggesting RL shouldn't hope it gets what it wishes for (ie a successful international tier), because that will damage Origin's status and $ value.

Huh? What harm can a post Grand Final international series, possibly have on Origin? The possibility of a Kangaroos jersey is still, at least partly, what puts the fire and meaning into Origin in the first place.

Even at the current standard of the 4N, it reinforces RL's advantage in Aust over all other codes/sports - that it alone has 3 elite professional tiers via NRL club, Origin and Kangaroos.

There is no evidence that the standard of the 4N's is damaging the RL brand, so why not play the 4N?

From where I sit, I now see two competitive teams (Aust & NZ) where once there was one, and England did provide good competition at home last year. PNG getting flogged is more likely not a sign of PNG's decline, but of the Kiwis rise as a true rival to the Kangaroos.

The alternative is to play nothing after the Grand Final. Then what? See the Wallabies-NZ Test last night trigger news articles today bemoaning RL's lost international game.

Last night's ratings for the Bledisloe were lower than Aus v PNG in the four nations!

Seven’s R.U: Bledisloe Cup Rugby: Aus V N Z Seven 378,000 177,000 23,000 164,000 1,000 12,000

Four Nations Rugby League 2010 Nine 455,000 268,000 15,000 156,000 6,000 9,000

 

[Brutus]

The All Blacks have not been World Champions since 1987.

But they still are, by far, the most successful yawnion country in the world and have been so virtually since day dot.

Doesn't say much for union's alledged massive world following.

 

[Brutus]

I'd like to know why the Daily Telegraph (News Limited) felt the need to let a rugby union nuffy like Cannon pen an article bagging RL?

There whole preview page today was bagging the tournament.

What would be their agenda.

Now that we have NZ on the same level as Aus, the new way of bagging the game for these clowns is to make England appear completely useless.

Do these f**ktards realise that England actually bumped NZ (world cup champs) out of the 4N's final last year?

 

[adamkungl]

A point which was raised earlier - people have to stop thinking International Rugby League is all about beating Aus/NZ. This is true for England, sure. But outside the big 3 there have been countless entertaining matches. The fact that Australia would belt both of them does not make France vs Wales meaningless or pointless.

 

[The 18th Man]

Was Uate and the like forced in to any such decision though applesauce? If so, agreed, this is part of the problem which goes back to an earlier post of mine re: pledging allegiance to your Nation.

I heard that re: ratings between the codes.

 

[The 18th Man]

A point which was raised earlier - people have to stop thinking International Rugby League is all about beating Aus/NZ. This is true for England, sure. But outside the big 3 there have been countless entertaining matches. The fact that Australia would belt both of them does not make France vs Wales meaningless or pointless.

Exactly. Only the casual observer or fan of the game must think that way in my opinion. With the tv coverage of today, I long for a day when we are able to watch this fixtures LIVE on television. This would help our current plight even if they're replays of the game.