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4N: Is the demolition of PNG and the like good for the game?

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
65,961
sadly the cost would be prohibitive, hrd enough getting TV and sponsors for NZ/Oz and Eng. Until the RLIF starts earning some serious money I can't see it happening.
 

SteveM

Juniors
Messages
212
And the mere fact that the All Blacks, with that winning record, represent a smallish country suggests that union isn't as big as some people like to make out.

The All Blacks have not been World Champions since 1987.
 

NRLMad

Juniors
Messages
832
You do that. The rest of us will keep supporting it, and the gradual improvement we're seeing (particularly in europe) will continue.

If PNG could get players into the NRL and a professional coaching structure they would improve enourmously. They have far greater RL playing numbers than NZ - taking advantage of that is the key.

Anyone who expected anything else from them in this tournament is delusional and a sook, especially considering the problems at the PNGRL and players being out.

Here here.. there are always people who want to sink the boot in.. just for the sake of it. I just don"t get it, if rugby league is to ward off threats form other codes, we need a strong international calendar.

The 4 Nations qualification needs to be looked at.. This PNG team would not beat Samoa, Tonga, Cook Islands, Fiji, France and would probably struggle to beat Ireland & Scotland. Yes they qualified...
 

The 18th Man

Juniors
Messages
1,602
Short term, the beatings sting and short sighted media types with an agenda will use these type of results to further lay the boot in to our game. The people of PNG will be disappointed by equally proud to see their boys competing against the best the game of rugby league has to offer. Just seeing their countrymen running out against their heros from the NRL and Super League will continue to inspire a generation.

Long term, this whole experience for PNG and the developing Nations that will follow their path in the Four Nations will be seen as the small steps that led to a better game Internationally. I'd like to think the NRL and Super League with the Rugby League International Federation's help will see it as a priority to continue to spend the time and money in helping develop these lesser Nations.

I love the idea from AlwaysGreen, outside the square ideas are to be encouraged and looked at as options when it comes to developing the likes of Samoa, Wales, Tonga, PNG etc.

The interest in the Tonga vs Samoa game and the PNG side should be heard loud and clear by the RLIF and immediately following the completition of the Four Nations, the RLIF should come up with a clear and cut policy on who can play for who and how you qualify for the Nation in question. No more Fien's playing for NZ, no more Lam's playing for QLD etc. Let's just come up with some hard fast rules and develop ways to further include players who miss out on Origin have their own in-season rep fixtures.

Didn't take long. Brendan Cannon and David Riccio in today's Sunday Telegraph.
 

Usain Bolt

Bench
Messages
3,729
PNG is a poor country and has no money to develop anything. Players need to go offahore to improve and then if they are any good they'll probably wanna play Origin lol
 

DC_fan

Coach
Messages
11,980
The Flaw Nations



THE credibility of international rugby league is under question with claims the current Four Nations tournament should be scrapped to only include Australia and New Zealand next year.


The Kangaroos face England tonight at Melbourne's AAMI Park in what is expected to be another lopsided victory for the home team.

The injury-ravaged Poms are without a win in two matches on tour and are considered next to no chance of beating the Aussies tonight.

Australia will start short-priced $1.10 favourites to down the Old Enemy.
An Australian victory will also ensure that next week's Eden Park double-header in New Zealand, where Australia are scheduled to clash with the Kiwis, will be nothing more than dead-rubbers.

Australia and the Kiwis are expected to clash seven days later in the Four Nations final at Suncorp Stadium on November 13.

Yesterday, Australia's Cooper Cronk and Brett Morris defended both England and the tournament. But former Test hooker Ben Elias hit out at the standard of the tournament, claiming the English side were no different to Papua New Guinea in that they were simply making up the numbers.


"I really don't know too much about this Four Nations, but am I different to anyone else?" Elias said.







"It's Four Nations which includes Papua New Guinea and who else? England.

"Why don't we just call it the Bledisloe Cup or some other concept instead of Four Nations?

"Call it the Two Nations, then we could try to incorporate and benefit from the rivalry between Australia and New Zealand because they're the only two teams who are competitive. Twelve years ago they [England] came up with the Super League concept and a promise to compete with the world, and here we are in 2010 and Australia are $1.10 to beat them.
"Something has seriously gone wrong. I'm all for positives for the game, but right now I'm dumbfounded.

"Watching Australia beat PNG last week was like watching the big bully beat the little kid in the schoolyard.

"How is that a good thing?"

England have talked up a good fight ahead of tonight's clash, but the reality is if Australia click they will win by 40 points, as former Kangaroos halfback Greg Alexander suggested last week.

Cronk claimed criticism of the English was unfair, but this is something you would expect from a player who doesn't want to disrespect an opponent or give them extra motivation.

"They've had a couple of critics get stuck into them this week and the coaches made some changes which normally gets a team fired up," Cronk said. "To be honest, I tend to disagree [with the criticism].

"It's one game into a Four Nations campaign. I know the format that it is, you need to start really well to make sure you're there in the final.

"They're a talented side. The amount of players they've got, just watching what they can do in the Super League, is up there with the NRL.

"I know they've had a lot of criticism in terms of recent results against Australia, but you look at the two Pommies [Sam Burgess and Gareth Ellis] who came out here - they've basically dominated.

"From a player's point of view, we've got the utmost respect for what they're capable of doing on their day.

"And it's hard because there's no real good format when you've only got four teams involved."

Morris supported Cronk's defence of the England outfit by adding that he didn't think the $1.10 price being offered properly reflected how tight a game it would be.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport/nrl/the-flaw-nations/story-e6frexnr-1225945592607
 

The 18th Man

Juniors
Messages
1,602
Brendan Cannon is an recent ex rugby player - he's should stick to rugby. All of you should stick the boot in...

I know who Brendan Cannon is thank you very much. Ex-Rugby player or not, he is now a paid commentator for the Sunday Telegraph and used his column as a means to further lay the boot in to our game (albeit he makes sure it's clear, "I am a rugby league fan" :lol:)

All of us should stick the boot in? :? To our code?
 

DC_fan

Coach
Messages
11,980
You can't call that Test footy
LET me start by saying I'm a genuine fan of rugby league, and the standard of competition exhibited in the NRL on a weekly basis is nothing short of outstanding.


International rugby league, not so much.

To be frank, the other codes simply laugh at the oxymoron that is "international rugby league".

The Four Nations tournament being played in Australia should really be called the Two Nations. How the International Rugby League Federation can put together a tin-pot tournament purporting to be a contest and expect people to take it seriously is beyond me.

Let's face it, the only two teams with a hope of winning are Australia and New Zealand - Papua New Guinea and England are simply making up the numbers.

No disrespect to PNG, but they're about as much of a threat on the international league scene as Georgia are in international rugby.



Which brings me to the Poms. England have sent out what is their best available squad but were shown to be inferior to New Zealand.

Sure, they've lost two key players to injury in Adrian Morley and Michael Shenton.

But Australia are missing a host of top-line stars, too, headed by halfback Johnathan Thurston.

Call me a pipe-chewing leather-patch member of the rah-rah set, but I just can't see how the Four Nations is a legitimate tournament.

I'm sure the Kangaroos experience an immense sense of pride every time they get to pull on the green and gold. And they're entitled to.

They don't have a say in who they play. It's the rugby league administrators who are putting these tournaments together who need to have a good look at themselves.

State of Origin has become the biggest meal ticket for rugby league in Australia, both commercially and as the pinnacle of on-field achievement.
The sooner the rugby league administrators embrace this, the better off the game will be.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport/you-cant-call-that-test-footy/story-e6freyar-1225945576289
 
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DC_fan

Coach
Messages
11,980
Like what Riccio and Cannon said or not, what they said is true.

As an Australian I hope we beat the Poms this evening and beat them big time. As a league fan I wouldn't mind if we lost. A good showing by the Poms, especially a win would do wonders to the game internationally.

My real concern is that we will smash the Poms. If that happens then I have great doubts about any future Four Nations tournaments.
 

The 18th Man

Juniors
Messages
1,602
Cannon perhaps hits home a couple home truths, though all in all, this article could be a template to be used by critics annually. This is what I meant by "short term, this will will sting..." as critics with an agenda (Cannon's to further discredit the standard of International Rugby League - to which he has a point) will use these blow out results to further lay the boot in to the game.

These critics represent what it wrong with modern day sport and to a degree society. We want the "quick fix", we "want it now", we don't have the patience or forsight to see that Rome really wasn't built in a day. Don't for once second think we aren't the pioneers of International Rugby League becoming a strong code with depth and competitive fixtures day in, day out. Our efforts, our visions, what we do for the game at an International level will be judged in time by our future leaders.
 

The 18th Man

Juniors
Messages
1,602
Like what Riccio and Cannon said or not, what they said is true.

As an Australian I hope we beat the Poms this evening and beat them big time. As a league fan I wouldn't mind if we lost. A good showing by the Poms, especially a win would do wonders to the game internationally.

My real concern is that we will smash the Poms. If that happens then I have great doubts about any future Four Nations tournaments.

I don't think many disagree with the majority of your points, so, thinking worse case scenario this afternoon, if we hammer the English side - where do we go from there?


  • If the Administrators of the game have any clue they will start by stopping Australasian players flooding the Super League competition. The import rule needs looking at.
  • If the Administrators of the game have any clue they will acknowledge that getting an Australasian influence at the Admin and coaching level in the Super League will only be of benefit. The platform they would lay would only ensure improvement of their competition as a whole. This would be at grassroots level too.
Of course, the best players from developing Nations and England should be encouraged to ply the trade in our National competition or development leagues. They can only improve and thus improve their own National teams.

I'd love to see the powerbrokers of the game meet and thrash this out right after the Four Nations ends. For the sake of the game at an International level, it's a must./
 

DC_fan

Coach
Messages
11,980
Cannon perhaps hits home a couple home truths, though all in all, this article could be a template to be used by critics annually. This is what I meant by "short term, this will will sting..." as critics with an agenda (Cannon's to further discredit the standard of International Rugby League - to which he has a point) will use these blow out results to further lay the boot in to the game.

These critics represent what it wrong with modern day sport and to a degree society. We want the "quick fix", we "want it now", we don't have the patience or forsight to see that Rome really wasn't built in a day. Don't for once second think we aren't the pioneers of International Rugby League becoming a strong code with depth and competitive fixtures day in, day out. Our efforts, our visions, what we do for the game at an International level will be judged in time by our future leaders.

The problem is, we have been trying to fix international rugby league for a very long time. And we have really got no where with it.

Australia has always been a power and always will be. England once was a power, if not the best in the world. But over the past 30 years they have gone backwards. They show no real sign of improvement. NZ has been the big improvers and are now fill one of the top 2 positions with Australia. The gap between the top 2 and the #3 England appears to be widenng.

As for PNG and France, well there is not much to say about them is there.

On what we have seen of PNG this tournament they are light years behind even the Poms let alone Aust and NZ. If the Kumuls are considered to be one of the Top 5 league nations in the world then our game internationally is a joke.

Back in the 50's and 60's the French showed some promise. But since then it has been all down. They will never be a force in world rugby league.
 

DC_fan

Coach
Messages
11,980
I don't think many disagree with the majority of your points, so, thinking worse case scenario this afternoon, if we hammer the English side - where do we go from there?


  • If the Administrators of the game have any clue they will start by stopping Australasian players flooding the Super League competition. The import rule needs looking at.
  • If the Administrators of the game have any clue they will acknowledge that getting an Australasian influence at the Admin and coaching level in the Super League will only be of benefit. The platform they would lay would only ensure improvement of their competition as a whole. This would be at grassroots level too.
Of course, the best players from developing Nations and England should be encouraged to ply the trade in our National competition or development leagues. They can only improve and thus improve their own National teams.

I'd love to see the powerbrokers of the game meet and thrash this out right after the Four Nations ends. For the sake of the game at an International level, it's a must./

The question I would ask here is who are the stars of the Super League, the local Pommy players or the imported Aussies?

If you cut back the number of aussies playing in the ESL will that cut back the interest in the competition?
 

The 18th Man

Juniors
Messages
1,602
Stating the obvious doesn't help though DC fan. That's the problem. We have too many who take your position, wipe their hands and strut off thinking they contributed. What's the solution to these glaring concerns?

What were you expecting of PNG this Four Nations?

France will never be a force in rugby league? Never say never. France are strong in rugby though there is an alternative for boys in France. With the success of Super League team Catalans Dragons (crowd averages continuing to grow you will find) and now with Toulouse firing up their bid to become the second French team entered in to the Super League (hopefully by 2012), France is a sleeping giant in rugby league in my opinion. I look forward to watching their development over the next decade.
 

ozbash

Referee
Messages
26,922
Back in the 50's and 60's the French showed some promise. But since then it has been all down. They will never be a force in world rugby league.

big, big call mate..

The trouble with international footy is Australia. The NRL has too much say in something it should have nothing to do with.
 

ozbash

Referee
Messages
26,922
What were you expecting of PNG this Four Nations?

about what we've seen, I think they have gone ok as mainly amatuers.

When 3/4 of the PNG team are pro (ESL/NRL) players, I'll expect a lot more.

We should have 6 nations, inc maori and aboriginal teams..
 

The 18th Man

Juniors
Messages
1,602
The question I would ask here is who are the stars of the Super League, the local Pommy players or the imported Aussies?

If you cut back the number of aussies playing in the ESL will that cut back the interest in the competition?

Short term, perhaps, though long term those from our neck of the woods will be quickly replaced by their own stars coming through. A James Roby. A Sam Tomkins. Don't be fooled. There are English diehard rugby league fans who would embrace this change and are hurting with the standard of their National team.

I am not saying rid their competition completely of an Australasian influence, I am saying cut it right back to a couple players per team (off the top of my head that figure) which will force Super League teams to only spend cash on some of the best from our competition and not so-so players (which a lot of them are let's be fair, not all, but a good portion) taking the positions of young Englishmen wanting a chance to shine.
 
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The 18th Man

Juniors
Messages
1,602
about what we've seen, I think they have gone ok as mainly amatuers.

When 3/4 of the PNG team are pro (ESL/NRL) players, I'll expect a lot more.

We should have 6 nations, inc maori and aboriginal teams..

This is it ozbash, I agree. The win for PNG was qualifying for the Four Nations and that in itself will see it's rewards in the future. I am not sure what some in the rugby league community were expecting from the Kumuls to be honest. It's frustrating to read the continued comments only designed to kick them whilst they're down.

A Maori and Aboriginal side? Nice. I think the Indigenous All-Stars concept that kicked off in 2010 was brilliant, that may well be the start of bigger and better things for that side. Who knows.
 
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