4N: Is the demolition of PNG and the like good for the game?

[DC_fan]

I don't know what fans expected from PNG. They sacked Lam, basically told any eligible players that could play for them or another country to shove it and hired a coach without any NRL affiliation.

They'll grow from this PNG.

I suspect that is more in hope for you then expectation.

On what I have seen in the two games PNG have played they are light years behind the Top 3 playing nations.

We should not expect them to be as good as us. But we should expect them to be better then what they are. They run hard and hit hard (when they do manage to hit someone). But they have no football skills in either attack or defense.

It will take decades for PNG to get any where even close to the Top 3.

 

[adamkungl]

I suspect that is more in hope for you then expectation.

On what I have seen in the two games PNG have played they are light years behind the Top 3 playing nations.

We should not expect them to be as good as us. But we should expect them to be better then what they are. They run hard and hit hard (when they do manage to hit someone). But they have no football skills in either attack or defense.

It will take decades for PNG to get any where even close to the Top 3.

Disagree. They have some talent, they lack any sort of structure. Why? Obviously the domestic comp lacks NRL quality coaching, but even worse, then national team ditched their professional coach in favour of an ex-player.

If a core of their side was made up of decent NRL players, and had a top coach, you'd see a much closer scoreline. Achievable in a few years imo.

 

[deluded pom?]

Typical shortsightedness... If it's not perfect from the outset then can it immediately. :crazy:

Not just typical shortsightedness, typical rugby league.

 

[LeagueXIII]

Why give up on them? That's as ridiculous as giving up on playing games in Sydney. What is needed is stategic planning and development etc. If this was AFL or RU they would put money into building weaker nations, however RL just gives up and looks for the next easy dollar. This tournament is excellent, it needs building, also need the media to get on board to stop bagging it because they create the perception which becomes the opinion of the neutral spectator we need to attract, we also need to play it every 2nd year so as not to overkill it. Also need to find a way to play it during the season to help build it.

Compare PNG performances (which were expected) to Italy's when they entered the union 6 Nations:

They won their first match against Scotland ( this would be equivilant to PNG v France) after this they were beaten:

47-16

60-13

59-12

42-31

41-22

80-23

losing 14 in a row ( and 30 from 32)

Infact in the 11 years they have been in the competition they have only won 7 of 55 games and only beaten Wales (twice) and Scotland (5 times).

I never heard anyone say get rid of them, the complete opposite happened. For us to do this we need LEADERSHIP and a PLAN.

 

[roopy]

All the PNG players will be better for this experience, and they will take their better form back to their comp and everyone they play against will lift a bit too.

I hope they can regroup against England and cut the margin by a bit, but they will be better in two years for the experience.

 

[Brutus]

A strong and improving (which they will) Tonga and Samoa will improve the 4N's in the future.

Those who bag PNG must still not forget the fact that RL is that country's national game - they deserve every opportunity to improve. It's great that they are now getting more regular competition against the better teams.

And we are also on the cusp of a great rivalry with the KIWIS and the Poms are more than competitive on home soil, after all they took care of the Kiwis just last year.

I find International RL more interesting than most NRL matches.

 

[AuckMel]

A strong and improving (which they will) Tonga and Samoa will improve the 4N's in the future.

Those who bag PNG must still not forget the fact that RL is that country's national game - they deserve every opportunity to improve. It's great that they are now getting more regular competition against the better teams.

And we are also on the cusp of a great rivalry with the KIWIS and the Poms are more than competitive on home soil, after all they took care of the Kiwis just last year.

I find International RL more interesting than most NRL matches.

Good post.

Must keep plugging away.

 

[kiwileaguefan]

I think PNG are lucky this didnt happen last week too. They play like they must back in PNG. Constantly giving away stupid penalties and always looking for the shoulder charge. Its a shame, as it seams all the hard work Adrian Lam has done over the last few years is wasted.

Lets not forget they are the 6th ranked nation, missing nearly half their side to be fair.

 

[condochook]

this is what has to happen.
tri series of australia,n zealand,and best of uk teams-not test teams,but players that play in their positions,even if they are aussie,kiwi,or islanders.
their is no such thing as international rugby league

 

[LeagueXIII]

True, England/Gt Britain v NZ have always been great contests, in 2007 GB beat the Kiwis 3-0 in a series, just as Wales v France v PNG v Fiji are great contests.

People who call international league a joke are always comparing games v Australia. International RL does NOT only consist of games v Australia, just as RU does not only consist of games v the All Blacks.

Matches between some of the other nations are good contests as seen last week in the Wales v France match, infact most matches in the 08 WC not involving Australia (final excepted) were entertaining contests.

Looking at union who claim to have 10 tier one nations (league would have 3) out of 150 odd countries, what standard are the other 140? The team ranked 17th, Namibia were beaten by Australia 142-0, surely THIS is a joke.

The All Blacks have only ever been beaten by 5 nations in 100 plus years and in the last 57 years by only 4 - SA, England, Australia and France.

The Roos have been beaten by 3.

There are 7 tier 2 nations in RU and in RL there are the same.

Overall Australia have a winning record of 68.8% compared to the All Blacks 76.1%.

 

[deluded pom?]

Why give up on them? That's as ridiculous as giving up on playing games in Sydney. What is needed is stategic planning and development etc. If this was AFL or RU they would put money into building weaker nations, however RL just gives up and looks for the next easy dollar. This tournament is excellent, it needs building, also need the media to get on board to stop bagging it because they create the perception which becomes the opinion of the neutral spectator we need to attract, we also need to play it every 2nd year so as not to overkill it. Also need to find a way to play it during the season to help build it.

Compare PNG performances (which were expected) to Italy's when they entered the union 6 Nations:

They won their first match against Scotland ( this would be equivilant to PNG v France) after this they were beaten:

47-16

60-13

59-12

42-31

41-22

80-23

losing 14 in a row ( and 30 from 32)

Infact in the 11 years they have been in the competition they have only won 7 of 55 games and only beaten Wales (twice) and Scotland (5 times).

I never heard anyone say get rid of them, the complete opposite happened. For us to do this we need LEADERSHIP and a PLAN.

Without digging the results up, didn't France also cop a few hidings when they first joined the 5 Nations?

 

[Brutus]

Overall Australia have a winning record of 68.8% compared to the All Blacks 76.1%.

And the mere fact that the All Blacks, with that winning record, represent a smallish country suggests that union isn't as big as some people like to make out.

 

[LeagueXIII]

What union is great at is creating a perception/image of their game, when a flogging occurs the opposition is seen as spirited etc whilst in league we say they are crap and should be punted.

They other thing is traditionally union has played one off internationals that are events.

 

[The Observer]

Maybe time to get that Combined Pacific Nations team on track

Agreed. A combined Pacific team (involving the best of PNG, Fiji, Samoa, Tonga, Cook Is) would compete closely and stand a chance of beating the big 3. Even if individual PI nations improve, the Big 3 will improve more, and they will continue this trend:

NZ 48 - 6 PNG
Au 46 - 6 PNG
Au 52 - 0 Fiji
NZ 40 - 24 Tonga
NZ 50 - 6 Samoa
Au 42 - 0 PNG
NZ 76 - 12 PNG

Tell me any of the individual nations would look any stronger than this combined Pacific team:
Wes Naiqama (Fiji), Francis Meli (Samoa), Daryl Millard (Fiji), George Carmont (Samoa), Etu Uaisale (Tonga); Feleti Mateo (Tonga), Paul Aiton (PNG); Tony Puletua (Samoa), Tevita Leo-Latu (Tonga), Epalahame Lauaki (Tonga); Ukuma Ta'ai (Tonga), David Solomona (Samoa), Zeb Taia (Cook Islands). BENCH: Makali Aizue (PNG), Harrison Hansen (Samoa), Charlie Wabo (PNG), Alex Glenn (Cook Islands).

5 Samoans, 5 Tongans, 3 PNG, 2 Fijians, 2 Cook Islanders.
7 play NRL, 8 play in Super League, 2 in the Championship. That's 15 first graders.IMO like Costigan, Uate and Williams may have stuck with the Pacific to play for a strong combined team.

The individual nations have much smaller numbers of regular first graders. PNG had 1 regular FG player in the 17 (Aiton), Fiji had 2 of 17, Cooks had 3 of 17, Tonga had 5 of 17, Samoa had 8 of 17. A combined team could feature between 15 to 17 first graders in the 17.

Use a cricket analogy. In cricket, Australia and England don't play Jamaica, or Barbados, we play the West Indies. While the WI have struggled recently, they are more than the sum of their parts. In RL, let the combined Pacific team play the Big 3, the individual nations can play the Pacific Cup, minor nations, clubs and RLWC.

 

[Perth Red]

Until we have a serious strategic plan for these countries development we can;t expect much else. Their 2nd try was a corker though!

 

[Springs]

I suspect that is more in hope for you then expectation.

On what I have seen in the two games PNG have played they are light years behind the Top 3 playing nations.

We should not expect them to be as good as us. But we should expect them to be better then what they are. They run hard and hit hard (when they do manage to hit someone). But they have no football skills in either attack or defense.

It will take decades for PNG to get any where even close to the Top 3.

That's the point. They are better then what they are showing at the moment. As previously stated, they are without their top 4 or 5 players, their pro coach quit and their board are more concerned with fighting.

 

[yakstorm]

Wow, we seriously are hopeless as a code, when the 'fans' of international Rugby League continually question the involvement of nations like PNG.

When the Four Nations concept was announced three years ago, every hailed it a master-stroke in terms of allowing second tier nations the chance to qualify for the top tier. We played one Four Nations tournament, and France showed that for about 50 minutes in a match they could compete, so we all patted ourselves on the back and said, this might work....

PNG, on the other hand have shown their limited ability to attack and all of a sudden we have a large group of people questioning why they are involved.

The facts are, we can't expect someone like PNG, France, Wales or anyone else ever to compete for a World Cup or any top trophy unless we give them the chance to take on the best. Yes they may get thumped, but to be honest, I've seen NZ thump England over the past decade, same I've seen Australia thump NZ, and I've seen NZ score 24 unanswered points against Australia, lets face it, it happens in our code, because it rewards attacking football so much.

PNG will be better for the experience, and at least know where they need to get to to compete. In 10 years they might be competitive, but only thanks to their experiences now. If we give up on these fringe nations, we are only going to hurt our code more and more.

I mean lets be honest, Union with their 6 nations never gave up on Italy, same I remember when Sri Lanka were a terrible Cricket nation in all forms of the game.... still Australia and the ICC stuck with them, and look at them in terms of ODI's and Twenty20, they are up there in the world, this wouldn't have happened without persistence.

Are we really going to lose any fans by playing these games? No, same are we going to gain any fans? Well maybe by showing our code is more international than most people give us credit for. But if not, we're no worse off.

 

[Jose93]

It's not good for the immediate future of RL Internationally in some aspects, but if you don't want PNG involved, then you might as well scrap International RL.

Revert back to the old Tri Nations and some say it takes too long. Have it like this and people complain "no hopers" are in the competition. It's obvious 3 games for one nations who get battered probably won't change a lot.

As for the Union comparison, don't forget that the Southern Hemisphere is now so dominant again the next WC is between just 3 teams - South Africa, Australia and NZ. The rest can't win. Should the IRB ban them? There's a 2 legged play off between the might Romania and Uruguay for the 20th spot. I can predict the top 2 teams in each pool now, and so could everyone else on here, so should it be an 8 team competition?

Perhaps the format of the competition for this year is at fault as well, which is why more criticism is being directed at PNG hopeless performances. Having England play NZ first week wasn't wise. You have to "fix" the fixture list to give it some meaning, to make it tougher for Australia etc.

Week one - AUS Vs ENG, PNG Vs NZ
Week two - PNG Vs ENG, AUS Vs NZ
Week three ENG Vs NZ, AUS Vs PNG

The "International calendar," however ridiculous that term sounds, needs revising to have a "mini" Knockout WC with 8 teams every 2 years rather than just ploughing on with a broken 4 Nations idea if we're really going to give the smaller nations a chance.

 

[Perth Red]

Regardless of the score I bet PNG was going off when the Kumuls scored back to back tries! Hopefully it will encourgae the PNGRL to get its act together and the ARL/RLIF to do the same and give them more support.

 

[Bluebags1908]

The 4 nations must be perservered with.

But I do think what would be good for the game is have a 'World Series' tournament which is basically the same as the World Cup but excluding the big 3. Just have all 2nd tier nations in this tournament. As you could imagine winning this tournament would become very prestigious. Have it once every 4 years in between World Cups and perhaps use it as a qualifier to the main World Cup. The only criteria for entry would be that a nation must have a proper round-robin domestic competition of at least 4 teams. You could have the following participate -

PNG
Cook Islands
Fiji
Samoa
Tonga
South Africa
USA
Jamaica
Canada (if they get 2 more domestic teams and start up a local comp as planned)
Japan (but only if they get a proper domestic comp started up again)
Ireland Republic
Northern Island (They have at least 4 domestic teams playing in the Irish comp. Soccer has them competing separately so why not RL?)
Wales
France
Scotland
Catalonia/Spain
Italy
Ukraine
Lebanon
Russia
Serbia

Can you imagine the prestige in winning such a tournament for the 2nd teir nations? Sure, there are costs involved, but hopefully sponsors and TV rights would cover it.