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4 nations game 7 - 4 nations final - ENG V AUS

Chook Norris

First Grade
Messages
8,322
Disagree. If a player wants to play international rugby, in a meaningful comp, union is the game for them. Union have been apparently threatening to take all the good stars for years without great success. For every Ashton and Robinson you have the Farrells, the Chev Walkers, the Lee Smiths, expensive failures for the RFU. International League is poor. I wish it wasn't, but the truth is only two teams are competitive with one showing promise from time to time. Dubious residency/ancestry allowances spreads the talent thin, but the game simply isn't big enough outside NSW, Queensland, Yorkshire and Lancashire to be a world game.

Even if hypothetically England win the next 3 international comps - that's still the unfortunate truth. They said Eastmond leaving Saints for Union was a disaster. Then Saints fielded Lomax and Gaskill and everyone forgot about him. Take one star player from every ESL team, put him in a Union team - the game still survives and provides good talent.

So i'll be right behind england on saturday, but the result matters little for the state of the game in the UK

is that an attitude that is ready to accept defeat this weekend? Yes, the ESL has managed to survive without England winning a major tournament over the past 30 years but you're kidding if you don't think it wouldn't leave any sort of noticeable impact on the English game. When standards of the international game rise of course you're going to see a rise in the quality of the domestic comp. If England have any sort of major success against Australia that subsequent method or style of play would want to be emulated within the domestic ranks
 

nadera78

Juniors
Messages
2,233
Disagree. If a player wants to play international rugby, in a meaningful comp, union is the game for them. Union have been apparently threatening to take all the good stars for years without great success. For every Ashton and Robinson you have the Farrells, the Chev Walkers, the Lee Smiths, expensive failures for the RFU. International League is poor. I wish it wasn't, but the truth is only two teams are competitive with one showing promise from time to time. Dubious residency/ancestry allowances spreads the talent thin, but the game simply isn't big enough outside NSW, Queensland, Yorkshire and Lancashire to be a world game.

Even if hypothetically England win the next 3 international comps - that's still the unfortunate truth. They said Eastmond leaving Saints for Union was a disaster. Then Saints fielded Lomax and Gaskill and everyone forgot about him. Take one star player from every ESL team, put him in a Union team - the game still survives and provides good talent.

So i'll be right behind england on saturday, but the result matters little for the state of the game in the UK

Utter nonsense, we need to have more than just a good club competition. The international games are what bring in fans and sponsors from outside of the game's heartlands, just look at the Wembley game for instance. There were lots of people there that would never dream of going to watch a SL game - I took a dozen people with me and only two of them had any sort of prior RL involvement.

Sitting back and saying we've only got club footy, and then praising rahrah for having a steady international aspect, is nonsense. Continue like that and we'll see more and more players leave and the game will eventually wither and die. The days of localised club comps being important are long gone, it's got to be bigger than that. The problem this game has had for over a hundred years is people like yourself preventing us from reaching our full potential.
 

Pierced Soul

First Grade
Messages
9,202
eddie and stevo would die from cardiac arrest if England won. Roos havent looked all that sharp in the UK, they've got the skilla nd class tow in but havent clicked like they did in newie. If shillington and galloway keep letting the english pack dominate the middle england have a good chance of an upset.

Lockys last ever game - I think he'll pull out the bag of tricks and go for broke. he'll run more, he'll try and sting harder in defense (well as hard as locky can hit)
 

LeedsStorm

Juniors
Messages
715
Utter nonsense, we need to have more than just a good club competition. The international games are what bring in fans and sponsors from outside of the game's heartlands, just look at the Wembley game for instance. There were lots of people there that would never dream of going to watch a SL game - I took a dozen people with me and only two of them had any sort of prior RL involvement.

Sitting back and saying we've only got club footy, and then praising rahrah for having a steady international aspect, is nonsense. Continue like that and we'll see more and more players leave and the game will eventually wither and die. The days of localised club comps being important are long gone, it's got to be bigger than that. The problem this game has had for over a hundred years is people like yourself preventing us from reaching our full potential.

Listen guys, I'd love a widespread credible international competition as much as anyone else. The fact is there aren't yet sufficient domestic competitions to sustain a big international scene. Take Wales - they no longer have a first grade club, let alone a domestic competition to sustain a competitive international team. Same applies to Scotland, ireland, Samoa, Italy, USA, Lebanon and virtually any side outside the big three. Recent development looks promising, but there's clearly and long long way to go.

But lets not get away from the point - I make these comments in light of the contention made that England have to win to sustain its domestic competition. The reality is ESL has thrived under the cloud of poor international performances and more recently, a severe economical recession.

And this is purely my opinion - made for discussion. If you have any points that can convince me that A) England winning is a necessity and B) International Rugby League is credible beyond the three nations, please voice them. These are discussion boards afterall

Come on mate - do you honestly beleive someone like me expressing an opinion will cause players to leave the game and cause it to die? "Preventing us from reaching our potential" :) Bit melodramatic!

So apologies if these comments are a bit negative. I've been trying to get people into league in various places around the world all my life, with the genuine belief that I'd be doing them a favour. Why the game is not more popular beggers belief
 

BrisbaneRhino

Juniors
Messages
172
If you imagine a world where England and NZ were regularly competing with Australia - to the point that the result of every test was genuinely difficult to predict - the fact that we "only" have 3 teams wouldn't matter (in RU there are probably only 4/5 countries in with a chance of winning the World Cup, they have their share of minnow making up the numbers too). Internationals in all 3 countries would become big events without the need to big them up, and capable of filling out stadiums. That in turn would attract TV and sponsorship. It's a potentially significant source of revenue for the sport that simply doesn't exist at the moment.

If England win the 4N this year, if the World Cup was next season, ticket sales would go through the roof.
 

hitman82

Bench
Messages
4,937
Rugby league will always be huge in Australia. We need the Kangaroos to take one for the team and start losing to NZ and England on a regular basis. And then for France to beat England. And then for some island nation to beat NZ. And then everything would be wonderful.

Anyway, go England. Hopefully missing the Slater grub will help a bit. Tomkins is a far better fullback than Boyd will ever be. Let's deny gravelthroat his winning exit.
 

Valheru

Referee
Messages
20,020
Roos havent looked all that sharp in the UK, they've got the skilla nd class tow in but havent clicked like they did in newie.

Given the result of 2 of the last 3 finals Australia have played, I get eh feeling that they have always had an eye on the final and have been playing in 2nd gear thus far.

IMO England needs Australia to not play well otherwise I fear a flogging.
 

Joker's Wild

Coach
Messages
17,894
Rugby league will always be huge in Australia. We need the Kangaroos to take one for the team and start losing to NZ and England on a regular basis. And then for France to beat England. And then for some island nation to beat NZ. And then everything would be wonderful.

Anyway, go England. Hopefully missing the Slater grub will help a bit. Tomkins is a far better fullback than Boyd will ever be. Let's deny gravelthroat his winning exit.

I know your comment is likely tongue in cheek re: "taking one for the team" but I agree that NZ and especially England need to start winning more. They both need to improve a bit in order for this to happen though, relying on Australia to either throw a game (not gonna happen lol) or field a weaker team really doesnt cut it.

I think we need players and coaches to move between the NRL and ESL, in both directions to help with this. Both comps have something to offer the other imo
 

Steve Davy

Juniors
Messages
352
Rugby league will always be huge in Australia. We need the Kangaroos to take one for the team and start losing to NZ and England on a regular basis. And then for France to beat England. And then for some island nation to beat NZ. And then everything would be wonderful.

Anyway, go England. Hopefully missing the Slater grub will help a bit. Tomkins is a far better fullback than Boyd will ever be. Let's deny gravelthroat his winning exit.

The selection of ref suggests that the AFL see things very differently.
 

Raiderdave

First Grade
Messages
7,990
Given the result of 2 of the last 3 finals Australia have played, I get eh feeling that they have always had an eye on the final and have been playing in 2nd gear thus far.

IMO England needs Australia to not play well otherwise I fear a flogging.

Agreed

both these teams playing to their optimum ..... Australia wins comfortably

for England to win , they must play to or as close to .. 100% of their ability , & hope Australia play the way they have all tournament.
 

PacificCoastRL

Juniors
Messages
316
I think Australia needs to raise their game to its top level for a full 80 minutes (they haven't done that yet). If England plays their best and the Aussies struggle with their level of play, then there could be an upset. The pressure, if there is any, is squarely on the Australian's shoulders, it could be a burden if they don't have a good start.
 

ghoti

Bench
Messages
3,529
Anyone know what the deal is with the TV coverage on 9? Says it's on at 4:45am, and then again at 6. If it's supposedly live, how can it go for 75 minutes? Argh! Confused!
 

some11

Referee
Messages
23,746
Anyone know what the deal is with the TV coverage on 9? Says it's on at 4:45am, and then again at 6. If it's supposedly live, how can it go for 75 minutes? Argh! Confused!

yourtv.com lists 4:45am - 6am then 6am - 7am for Sydney (should just read 4:45 am - 7am)

Its just a double entry in the layout of the site.
 

ParraEelsNRL

Referee
Messages
27,785
I'd like to see the poms win, but this is lockys last game and he's a winner. The team will want to send him out a winner too.
 

JasonE

Bench
Messages
3,107
Sheens is all out of excuses now though.


Ellis will be fit. Hopefully he comes in for Wilkin and Carvell stays on the bench as we need his extra mass more than Wilkins skills.

No, Wilkin deserves his place if Ellis returns.
I watched the NZ game again today and Heighnington was totally ineffective, his first up defence was weak and offered zero in attack so he should be dropped, he won't be though.

On the other hand, Wilkin is finally showing he is a quality player at test level and he played 80 minutes as well.
Heighnington didn't play long v NZ but still looked knackered out there.
 
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